Live-blogging: State Canvassing Board
November 26th, 2008 – 9:51 AM by Bob von Sternberg10:27 a.m.:
Board members unanimously voted to recess, most likely until sometime next week, leaving the door ajar to revisiting, in part, the rejected absentee ballot issue.
They discussed the possibility of encouraging local election officials to sort their piles of rejected absentee ballots into five categories: Four of the piles would contain ballots that appear to have been rejected for reasons cited in state statute, while the fifth would contain ballots that don’t indicate a legal reason for rejection.
But the board members balked at whether they have the authority to direct local election officials to count any votes identified in such a sort — and left open the question of whether the so-called “fifth pile” of votes would eventually be presented to them. They deferred to the Attorney General’s office for an opinion, which they expect to receive next week.
Board member Eric Magnuson expressed skepticism that any of this is the board’s job. “I don’t believe we have the authority to tell the election judges” what to do with rejected absenee ballots, he said. “We’re in the process of making a record for the next step.”
But board member Kathleen Gearin made it clear she is leaning toward taking up the “fifth pile” ballots. “They should be opened and counted,” she said.
10:10 a.m.:
Board members unanimously voted to reject the Franken campaign’s request that they include the rejected absentee ballots in the recount. During the discussion, they stressed the fact that they weren’t rejecting the merits of the arguments made by Franken’s attorneys.They also made it clear they’re fully expecting this issue to be litigated separtely from the recount procedure.
10 a.m.:
Board members are taking up the day’s main event: the approximately 12,000 absentee ballots that were rejected statewide, out of a record 288,000 absentees cast nationwide. Secretary of State Mark Ritchie called it “a significant number.”
Supreme Court Justice G. Barry Anderson moved that board members reject the Franken campaign’s request that the board itself sort through the rejected ballots (”a purely procedural issue,” not a signal to the campaign that he rejects its argument, Anderson said).
During the discussion, Ramsey County District Judge Kathleen Gearin said both campaigns “have made arguments that are reasonable…The question is whether improperly rejected absentee ballots should be counted. It would be absurd to argue against that.”
She added: “Small numbers [or ballots] are becoming more and more important as the days go by.”
The discussion continues.
9:45 a.m.:
Immediately off the bat, board members took up the growing mountain of challenged ballots that will face them next month and made it clear that they want both the Coleman and Franken campaigns to whittle that down as much as possible.
Secretary of State Mark Ritchie said he had been told by lawyers for both campaigns that they are willing to sit down together and reduce the number of challenges and he and other board members strongly suggested that it happen before they take up the challenges next month. “It would be a very great benefit to the State Canvassing Board,” Ritchie said.
Added Supreme Court Chief Justice Eric Magnuson: “We want to decide all legitimate challenges. We don’t want to spend time we don’t have looking at ballots we don’t have to look at.”
Board members stopped short, though, of passing a formal motion to that effect.
Meanwhile, the Coleman campaign overnight called for a truce on issuing challenges:
“It has become apparent that both campaigns are engaged in a mounting game of ballot challenging that serves no useful purpose. This is not the way the recount process was intended to work, and we are trying the patience and goodwill of election officials and volunteers throughout the state. While the Franken Campaign began this morning challenging 25 ballots in one Sherburne County precinct, the vast majority without merit, it’s obvious that our campaign volunteers felt the need to match these growing and unnecessary challenges throughout the day. This is an artificial game which has virtually no bearing on the outcome of this recount as we know that the vast majority of these challenges will be rejected before we even get to the Canvassing Board on December 16th. With that in mind, in the spirit of the Holidays, and to give respect to this process that it deserves, we ask you to join us tomorrow morning in standing down in the game of ballot challenge one upsmanship.”
During the canvassing board’s discussion of the challenges, a Sherburne County election official pointed to what she described as an unusually large number of challenges: 801 out of about 30,000 counted so far.
115 Responses to "Live-blogging: State Canvassing Board"
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Another bloodless revolution complete. (except for the Sen race)
Beats the heck out of how thier doing it in Thailand, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Not to mention the Congo, Ukraine, Somalia…
Dont forget to count your blessing tommorrow!
BTW,,, Bloddy noses dont count!
Hey members of the press, as you sit and repeat Coleman’s talking points on “game playing”, why not actually try to determine if which campaign started the “escalation” and who has a higher challenge rate? Might be newsworthy!
A hint might be spotted at 528.com, which has a chart up showing that Coleman has never been under Franken’s level of challenging and indeed has been substantially ahead of Franken in challenge rates the past several days.
But of course (once safely ahead in the “game”) Norm today blames Al for the “game playing” and “one upsmanship” wants a “stand down”.
Again, perhaps the press might want to actually come to its own conclusions about who’s actually doing what in this “game” (by Norm’s admission) and how the game got going. And how it might benefit a particular campaign to be “ahead” going into the canvassing board. Just a thought….
It’s just a dumb p1ssing contest - although I thought it was funny that the Strib did seem to sing the tune of the spin-heavy Coleman camp letter.
Parth - my one point of contention is with your erroneous idea that anyone reads these forums (aside from us BQ geeks).
sarge - we agree once more. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving one and all.
God bless the libs! (They need it.)
I’m no lawyer but it seems like the grounds for endless regression into litigation seem to be multiplying daily. Doesn’t that make this pretty much a conte$t of political will$ to win at all co$t$. What? More donations needed?
Meanwhile take enough votes from Franken’s s count to increase Coleman’s lead while complaining that Franken’s getting all the breaks. The appearance of incumbency must be preserved. When voter apathy returns to MN bet on popular opinion turning against the challenger as a sore loser, because we’re too easily bored with a prolonged fight. In a race that’s too close to call but that some body has to call Fritz has the knack.
Six more years? Four is Pawlenty.
We can’t deport any of the Somali criminals we have in Minnesota, but they have no problem going there on their own to blow themselves up for Islam? What’s up with that?
Isn’t it great that we now have an Al-Qaida connection right here in Minnesota with our massive influx of Somalis? I guess we’ve seen it a few years ago as well with Somali immigrant Mohamm*d Warsame, we also should have learned from what happened in places like London. I guess we should have seen this coming, but the liberal concept of diversity seems to get in the way of common sense.
We can’t dep*rt any of the Som*li criminals we have in Minnesota, but they have no problem going there on their own to blow themselves up for Islam? What’s up with that ?
Isn’t it great that we now have an Al-Qa*da connection right here in Minnesota with our massive influx of Somal*s? I guess we’ve seen it a few years ago as well with Som*li imm*grant Moh*mm*d Warsame, we also should have learned from what happened in places like London. I guess we should have seen this coming, but the liber*l concept of divers*ty seems to get in the way of common sense.
Wow,
I’m glad that finally got through. The filtering on this site is really awful.
Hey dumbass, just because someone is Somali doesn’t automatically make them al-Queda.
That’s understood Sarge. D2’s comment is just a bargaining position for denying Somali’s equal protection under the law when murder rates spike in that community. Not “our” problem right D2?
If not it’s certainly MN’s opportunity for busting whatever influence Islamist radicalism is trying to gain by terrorism against Somalians, if not abroad then at least here here in our state.
Sarge and Lib,
Don’t you agree that our importation of thousands of Somali Muslims to Minnesota has been a HUGE mistake? How have the benefits outweighed the problems and expense to taxpayers?
I saw this on another blog and wanted to pass it on:
QUESTION:
“Do people come here to RE-COLINIZE the USA as there own native countries?”
ANSWER:
Not exactly. The Liberals are actively IMPORTING people here to destroy what they believe was the evil European Colonization of America. To multi-culti Liberal Democrats like R.T. Rybak, the ideal is a city made up of a patchwork quilt of unassimilated third world cultures. Of course they never think that this might also bring in the crime levels and cultural practices of the third world, like ritual abuse, female genital mutilation and honor killings. These things are always to be ignored for the Greater Good.
To the eyes of an R.T. Rybak, the ideal city looks like a big pet shop full of fluffy exotic animals, all on their best behavior, and can be petted and cooed over. Never mind that in their natural habitat they would all be trying to kill and eat each other.
I saw this on another blog and wanted to pass it on:
QUESTION:
“Do people come here to RE-COLIN*ZE the USA as there own nat*ve countries?”
ANSWER:
Not exactly. The Liber*ls are actively IMPORTING people here to destroy what they believe was the evil European Colon*zation of America. To multi-culti Liber*l Democrats like R.T. Ryb*k, the ideal is a city made up of a patchwork quilt of unassimil*ted third world cultur*s. Of course they never think that this might also bring in the crime levels and cultural practices of the third world, like ritual abuse, female genit*l mutil*tion and hon*r kill*ngs. These things are always to be ignored for the Greater Good.
To the eyes of an R.T. Ryb*k, the ideal city looks like a big pet shop full of fluffy exotic animals, all on their best behavior, and can be petted and cooed over. Never mind that in their natural habitat they would all be trying to kill and eat each other.
Sorry,
This filtering system really sucks.
A Somali arrives at the Minneapolis airport as a new immigrant to the United States.
He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and says…..
Thank you Mr. American for letting me in this country, giving me free housing, food stamps, FREE medical care and free education!”
The passer-by says…
“You are mistaken, I am Mexican”
The man goes on and encounters another passer-by.
“Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in America!”
The person says…. “I no American, I Vietnamese
The new arrival walks further, and the next person he sees he stops, shakes his hand and says….. Thank you for the wonderful America!”
That person puts up his hand and says “I am from Middle East, I am not an American!”
He finally sees a nice lady and asks “Are you an American?”
She says, “No, I am from Russia!”
Puzzled he asks her……
“Where are all the Americans?”
The Russian lady checks her watch and says….
“Probably at work!”
Take your racist crap and post it somewhere else, jackass. Yes, I’m talking to you D2. I’m extremely disappointed in you for posting that garbage here.
You have no right to compare those people to animals.
Sarge,
The person who wrote that comment was giving a discription of how he felt R.T. Rybak veiwed third world immigrants. You’re right though, comparing some groups of people such as Islamic terrorists to animals is an insult to animals.
The time has come to ban Dare2 as a poster on BQ.
He is intentionally abusing the site with his endless race-baiting and immigrant hating and the StarTrib should not permit this to continue. Plus, it’s not even original sewage, but “material” stolen from other Right Wing garbage troughs!
He is a disgrace to the site and the state of Minnesota. A hate-filled moral leper.
Banning the bigot would be a mistake. Let him post his nonsense for everyone to see.
Partisan/Dick/Sarge,
Now that Minnesota has an Al-Qa*da link with our massive Som*li welf*re migration, do you think it’s time to put and end to the flood or keep the gates wide open?
Som*li immigr*nts played a big role in the London train bomb*ngs. What makes you think acts of terr*r like that would never happen here?
I may sound harsh to you, but I love this state and country and don’t like seeing our suicid*l immigrati*n policy give us the same serious problems Eurab*a has.
You’re not motivated by “love” of anything, 2D, just hate. Blind hatred of the “other”.
Disgusting.
No dumbass, you don’t sound “harsh”; you sound like a white-trash racist jerk off, which I’m beginning to believe you are.
You don’t deserve to post here, assho1e. I don’t know why I was ever nice to you.
No, you don’t sound “harsh”; you sound like a white trash racist jerk off, which I’m beginning to believe you are.
You don’t deserve to post here, @ssho1e. I don’t know why I was ever nice to you.
You deserve hearing that twice.
We have tens of thousands of Somalis in this state who have never committed an act of violence and are contributing members of society. I work and go to school with a number of them - and I can tell you they’re all nicer, less racist, and more respectful to others than you’ll ever be.
Sarge,
You might like Minnesota being the welfare magnet of the world, but I don’t. Our taxes keep going up because of it, and we are chasing out business and preventing new ones from coming here as well because of liberal high tax policies.
The latest Minnesota Somali link to Islamic terror was the last straw for me. Sorry if you are offended by how I feel.
d2 You sound like an import to me. Perhaps from Texas. I can say that because although I’m a Minnesotan since the age of sixteen my formative years were spent there. It seems like some Minnesotans,like our North Star governor, see that state as something to emulate and admire. I’ll call y’all the Lone Star faction.
One has to have lived elsewhere to know what’s of value in Minnesota and I don’t mean great sports franchises. I mean a history of tolerance for minorities, investment in education, conservation of the environment. support for the arts. It’s not that Minnesota’s a welfare magnet that draws people here to experience the climate in such heated spaces as are affordable to them. It is instead the climate of relative freedom and safety to raise families that keeps ‘em coming. These human resources can be an asset to this state, even staffing and creating jobs that cause the state to flourish once again.
adlib,
I was born in Minnesota and have lived here all my life.
You are wrong about our welfare system, people are attracted here simply for the money. We have been coined “Moneyapolis” by welfare migrants from places like Chicago and Gary, Ind. Welfare offices in Chicago have even payed the transportation expenses of their recipients if they relocate to Minnesota.
The latest problem has been groups like the Somalis flooding into Minnesota simply for our generous taxpayer funded handouts (and to be with family members who previously came for our handouts).
D2 Many Somalis would prefer to live in their own country were it not occupied by Ethiopians due to the US war on terror. Our proxy allies probably make no more distinction between ethnicity and terrorist affiliation than do yourself. When that changes the volume of political refugees in Minnesota may abate somewhat.
As to Moneyapolis, Minnesota is a victim of its own success in having a diverse economy as well as a diverse population. States that engage in a bus ticket welfare policy probably have seen worse economic times than here, but that can’t be blamed on their having higher business taxes. Indeed its probably to maintain an attractive corporate tax level that they’re lightening load with welfare and unemployment claimants. That seems to be what you’re advocating for here as well.
D2,
I didn’t read your post that got the libs angry but their reaction is hilarious. I guess freedom of speech only applies if you are speaking the liberal dribble.
I see that Coleman’s lead is growing. Hmm, what were the libs predicting earlier this week?
God bless you Norm!
“Minnesota is a victim of its own success”
Minnesota is a victim of high tax and spend politicians. There is a reason why the NorthWest/Delta merger wants to pull as much of it’s operations out of Minnesota as possible. The biggest employer in Minnesota is now Government!
Again, the reason the libs over tax us and business so much is to fund the massive welf*re state which is attracting trouble from around the globe.
Another genius liber*l move is R.T. Rtyb*k’s illeg*l al*en “Santu*ry City” policy which attracts and protects illeg*l al*en gang members.
If this thread is closed it must be that all the big questions are now asked and answered.
Same old DTSI-bot. You can go back two years and see that it’s been posting the exact same drivel.
Since there are so many challenged ballots it’s not possible to see what is actually happening in the recount. Anybody that says anything else is just pushing the latest talking point.
According to Nate Silver’s charts Coleman is outpacing Franken on the challenges. Is he artificially trying to hold down Franken’s totals?
We won’t know anything until the challenged ballots are dealt with and until a decision about the wrongly rejected absentee ballots.
DTSI-bot has no problem with the one person/one vote concept. I fear the controversy here is its definition of human being.
“You can go back two years and see that it’s been posting the exact same drivel.”
And I’ve been right Dora!
I’m glad to see that the Federal Government finally got something right in stopping the massive influx of Somali “refugees”, especially with the known links to terror with Somali’s living in Minnesota:
www.startribune.com/local/35240159.html?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
You are delusional. And stupid as well.
D2SI,
Keep posting whatever you feel like and let the little people throw stones. They don’t have anything meaningful to contribute so they namecall.
Meanwhile, even the Startle Tribune states that the only way Angry Al can win the election is to sue to allow rejected absentee ballots (he would have to win of course). Or he can turn to the US Senate. He hasn’t been able to close the gap with 85% of the vote counted. At least Al will go out a sore loser.
So CNC feels that Somalis are sub-human and are members of al-Queda. I’ll remember that.
How brilliant of you to agree with someone without reading what they posted.
I realize there are a lot of liberals out there who endorse bad liberal policy. Their name calling really doesn’t bother me because there is no question they are wrong.
Thanks CNC,
Sarge,
No one is calling any group of people sub-human. I’m unhappy with our policies which allow so many in who in many cases have no interest in ass*milating and simply want to transpl*nt their backw*rd culture here, and now as we have seen are terr*r risks in some cases. Experts say that the Mall of American is a major risk for an Islam*st terr*r att*ck, what better way to accomplish that that than to have a large group of people living locally with terr*r elem*nts in the commun*ty?
Why can’t we learn from problems created in places like Lond*n and other parts of Eur*pe from their suic*dal imm*gration policies?
Sarge,
Is the the direction you want us to go?
**********************************
MAKE SHARIA PART OF UK LAW, SAYS QC
www.express.co.uk/posts/view/72992/Make-Sharia-part-of-UK-law-says-QC
ALL INMATES EAT HALAL CHICKEN IN SCOTS JAIL - BECAUSE 7 OF THEM ARE MUSLIMS
U.K. Terror Lawyer Racks Up Millions at Taxpayers Expense:
MUSLIM FANAT*CS HIJACK BRITISH PRISON: www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/72509
Muslims to be offered Shar*a-compliant pensions by Government:
HISTORIC BRITISH PUB RENAMED - WAS OFFENSIVE TO MUSLIMS:
theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/11/more-nulabour-politically-correct-claptrap-is-being-forced-down-the-throats-of-the-british-people—this-time-in-the-city-of.html
FORCED MARRIAGES UP 80% IN U.K. AS MUSLIM PARENTS START USING BOUNTRY HUNTERS:
Forced Islamic Indoctrin*tion of British children:
theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/11/islamic-brainwashing-of-british-children.html
Sarge,
Don’t you think we should learn from the U.K.’s suicidal immigration policy?
Sarge,
Wouldn’t it be wise to see what has happened in the U.K. with their suic*dal imm*gration policies and learn from their mistakes?
Still trying hard to whip up that fear and hatred, eh DTSI-bot? Yawn.
“Still trying hard to whip up that fear and hatred, eh DTSI-bot? Yawn.”
Dora, how the hell can you be so blind? I have legitamite concerns about the damage our immigration policies are doing to this country, but all I get from you liberals is being called a racist. Don’t the problems they are having in the E.K. and other parts of Europe signal any warning bells in your brain?
Sorry, U.K.
D2,The problems are known, the causes are debatable. The solutions are not self-evident. What do YOU propose?
adlib,
A good start is to keep the halt on the refugee program in place, perhaps to give taxpayers a break during these tough economic times if nothing else.
Besides that, we know that there are rad*cal elements among the Som*li’s in Minnesota and this is unacceptable. If the 20 or so who are suspected of leaving the U.S. for Jih@d decided to take it out on the people visiting the Mall of America instead, would you feel the same way?
A good start would be to restore the level of community policing that was abandoned to fund our wars abroad. Our foreign interventions since Viet Nam have yielded both refugess and new Jihadists. Assimilation of these refugees in the US will proceed no faster than the host community is willing to welcome them.
The Bush administration sneered at the notion that asymmetrical warfare was best conducted by a police approach and not with force majeur. But a decade of war on terror has been enough to prove that you can’t shock and awe Jihadists into submission.
I think that alot of the employees at Mall of America are Somalian. If a terrorist attack occurred there the response that followed, although not a rocket strike by jet fighters, might well put innocents in double jeoprady.
What we need is some good community policing alright! Thanks to the NRA, I have my community policing instrument ready.
Actually, the war on terror is more than just a military endeavor. It involves counterterrorism (liberals would call that illegal wire tapping), ideological, political, financial and legal thrusts. Everyone knows that right?
“But a decade of war on terror has been enough to prove that you can’t shock and awe Jihadists into submission.”
adlib,
You might not realize this, but we were attacked by Isl@mist terr0rists more under Bill Clint0n the George Bush. If anything, our war or terr0r has kept us safer than “negotiating” which is what the lib’s would have preferred to do.
My God, what a craptastic level of spam from Somali-hater D2.
CNC, don’t mix the 2nd amdendment issues with this garbage that D2 is spewing.
It looks like most people, including the webhosts, are vacating this site.
Yet, the NBER released its report today that the recession has been upon us since last December.
Thus parth’s beloved NYT blogger who wished the recession a happy b-day back in Oct was, alas, wrong. Big shock, there.
Yet, it is amazing this wasnt released preelection, since of the 3:
1.President Bush
2.Dem House
3.Dem Senate
the only one NOT on the ballot was Bush.
What new indicator in the last month finally allowed this belated decision. The timing is sadly funny as the joke is on the electorate:
One will be gone, but arent we all lucky to have 2 more years of Reid and Pelosi? With Obama (where are my Fannie donations?) to boot!
Good luck to us all.
Never can admit you were wrong can you, 6DJ? Classic Conservative White Male Syndrome ™
Yes, NBER today confirmed what I had been arguing and predicting all year–that the recession would be dated to late 2007–and they refuted what 6DJ had been arguing all year.
And what does 6DJ post? That the NYT’s financial columnist was off by a month(!) with his prediction of when NBER would declare the Repub Recession officially started. Yeah, he was really “wrong”, Jim.
You were wrong again Jim, and of course you have to lamely pretend like some lib’rul was “really” wrong. Pathetic, but par for the course for members of your party and braindead “movement”.
And the idea that NBER “withheld” the timing of the “call”, or that the official announcement of a recession (that most informed people were already aware of) somehow could have helped your comedy duo of McPinhead and his stooge Lady Moosebreath is laugh out loud funny.
You’ll say anything, no matter how stupid, won’t you?
You have to admit that our economy started going down the toilet only after the liberal democrats took over both the House AND SENATE. Liberals like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were warned about the serious damage Fannie and Freddie would do to our economy, but they blocked every attempt to fix it before things got so out of control.
No, I only have to admit that nothing you say has any meaning, since you’ve proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you’re racist against Somali people.
Sarge,
It’s mult*-culter*l liberal thinking like yours that made all of the problems in the U.K. mentioned above possible.
CNC, re: “What we need is some good community policing alright! Thanks to the NRA, I have my community policing instrument ready.”
Did you pay cash for your community policing instrument? If so might your logo just as well be “Conceal N Carey”?
Glad to see your grateful to the NRA. I’d never taken you for a New Deal fan, but this country needs a National Recovery Act to get over its depressing addiction to fossil fuels, voodoo economics and violence as a first resort to conflict resolution.
SgtP, that’s not the only reason nothing he says has any meaning. It’s because he actually says nothing. No matter how much evidence he’s given that what he says is empty rhetoric he just mindlessly repeats it.
I am feeling left out. Nobody on this blog has called me a racist in months. What is the deal? Why is D2Si getting all the lib love?
Fivethirtyeight.com is now predicting a Coleman victory. Even a liberal hack can’t find a way for Franken to win.
D2,re. “I was born in Minnesota and have lived here all my life.” Who has lived in Minnesota all his/her life? Your creator? A committee of posters out to prove that two or more heads are NOT better than one?
If you are not a sentient being then that statement is as meaningless the “bio” of the I-bot HAL in “2001 A Space Odyssey.” Indeed it is a lie.
Your attitudes certainly seem familiar from any monitoring of the airwaves and newspapers in so-called red states. You say you love Minnesota. What do you love about this state? can’t be the people from what I’ve read. Can’t be it’s biodiversity either which is under siege from the effects of global warming…a premise which you deny.
CNC, perhaps no one is abusing you because you have revealed yourself to be a fairly dangerous hombre. Isn’t that the respect you want? Can’t have it both ways.
Re. “Actually, the war on terror is more than just a military endeavor. It involves counterterrorism (liberals would call that illegal wire tapping)…
Now why would anyone mind their private communications diverted to a separate database glutted with so much information the executive branch scarcely knows where to begin the datamining.
Probably for the same reason you’d prefer not to go through a thorough police background check before obtaining your community policing instrument. If a psychiatrist needs to evaluate whether someone is a sociopath or suicidal or both before they get a gat, forget it. There’s lots of easier ways to exercise your constitutional right, right?
Now the following discrepancy defies probability: All the found votes (the Lone Star faction claims,) were for Franken. Were they?
Yet all the lost votes WERE for Franken to the best of this LIB’s information.
Weren’t they? Loosey, you got some splainin’ to do!
“Can’t be it’s biodiversity either which is under siege from the effects of global warming…a premise which you deny.”
adlib,
The “Global Warming” hoax is starting to be exposed, and it’s now clear that we are now in a natural cooling cycle. It a good thing the Dust Bowl years happened about 80 years ago and not today, or you lib’s would REALLY be freaking out and calling for even more bans on everything!
Cash,
I love seeing the lib’s get all riled up. I think the truth drives them nuts!
DTSI-bot thinks we’re in a natural cooling cycle because it’s winter.
DTSI-bot is maintaining the fossil fuel lobby’s propaganda backed up by a few discredited scientists on the payola.
The state D2 loves has no real petroleuum or coal deposits, and every reason to limit the harm to our waters and marine life caused by airborne cantaminants from burning fossil fuels.
And Minnesota will be the sore loser if Coalman returns to the Senate.
The USA is trying to export democracy to the Near East and a few other select locales, but doing so is like students who’ve not done their homework pretending to be professors.
Given the 2000 presidential contest and our current senatorial contest, it’s a good thing a critical mass of Americans don’t take politics too seriously. In countries where they take their politics seriously, like the Pilippines or Indonesia there would surely be casualties by now.
CNC has a point about bloodless revolutions. Voter apathy saves the day again in the USA. Let’s just hope it doesn’t get so bloodless that a party’s platform can simply be …”whatever.”
lib,
The only climatologists getting grants to study seem to be the ones pushing the “Global Warming” hoax. By the way, 2008 has been much cooler than average.
According to NOAA and GISS, 2007 was the second warmest year in recorded history.
Globally, the winter of 2007-08 was .58 degrees (F) warmer than the 20th century mean. That means it was warmer than average, 2D.
Temp data for 2008 isn’t concluded yet (duh), but most monthly data sets have (again) been warmer than the 20th century mean, and NOAA also indicates that Jan-Sep 2008 has had higher average temps on almost all land and ocean surfaces, with some exceptions. Again, no scientist makes statements about the year 2008 before the phenomenon has even occured.
I suppose that pinhead denialists like 2D have been fed more lies by Fox News/Rushbo Limberger and ingested more sewage from their daily gulping at right wing internet cesspools.
So 2D is an ignoramus as well as a racist, but that has been known for quite some time. His stupidity is really exceptional.
Intellectual disgrace stares from every conservative face…..
D2, 100 years ago, those same arguments about multiculturalism were used to argue that Swedes and Finns couldn’t live in the same part of town.
Obviously today we know that’s not true.
“According to NOAA and GISS, 2007 was the second warmest year in recorded history.”
I heard they retracted that statement and admitted it was wrong.
Sarge,
You can’t compare the differences between Swedes and Finns to Western and Islamist values.
D2, re. (You might not realize this, but we were attacked by Isl@mist terr0rists more under Bill Clint0n the George Bush. If anything, our war or terr0r has kept us safer than “negotiating” which is what the lib’s would have preferred to do.)
By saying “a decade of war on terror” I was going back ten years. I realize that 1998 was during the Clinton administration. I realize that we were attacked often enough overseas to keep counter terrorism a prime objective of the Cinton administration. Whether or not the terrorists perception of our national weakness was a byproduct of partisan attempts to destabilize the Clinton administration, terrorists never came close to such a successful strike as they did on 09/11/2001.
Why the dubbya’s administration behaved as if the threat was over when he took office is a mystery, but after the 911 attacks were allowed to happen every national crisis became either an opportunity to expand executive powers or to reward supporters with no bid contracts, privatizing the ad hoc solutions and putting it all on our tab. When counter-terrorism finally became “war” with Iraq we’ve come to realize that it had been in the planning stages even before Bush took office in 2001. It is no wonder he disregarded the lessons to be learned both from Clinton’s successes and his failures.
For dubbya 911 provided a serrendipidous causus bella. For Osama no further attack on the US homeland was really necessary. We had him, so to speak, right where he wanted us.
They said the same thing about Catholic values and Lutheran values. My parents remember a time when a Catholic marrying a Lutheran was absolutely taboo.
Maybe you can describe some of these Islamic values to me?
adlib is babbling like a brook. Someone give him his meds.
Sarge, read closer. I said ISLAMIST values in my last statement. There is a big difference.
“I heard they retracted…”
Of course you “heard” that, from one of your Right Wing sewage sites or Fox News, which provide you with the putrid lies and falsehoods “conservative” nitwits like you demand on a daily basis.
What exactly is ISLAMIST D2?
…and following your logic, maybe I should assume all white christians are “Christianist” and want to bomb abortion clinics.
I think you’ll get your “answer” around the same time that our little ignoramus explains what he means by “soc*al*sm”, SgtP.
Basically, he saw the word somewhere at a rightwing sewage site, or heard Rushbo vomit it out. It sounded bad. That’s about as far as his “understanding” goes.
Answer? That’s being monumentally generous. I will admit though, asking the bigot for clarifications is usually very entertaining.
Adlib;
you wrote, in an effort to blame bush:
terrorists never came close to such a successful strike as they did on 09/11/2001.
—
As a defense of the gutless Clinton administration is a prime example of the idiotic logic of the left. You blame 9/11 on Bush, knowing full well the planing for the attack, and the training GOING ON IN THE U.S. for it occurred during Clinton’s watch.
Such is the value of lefty loonie “facts” such as the unsupported garbage spewed by your self (ad lib is a fine name for a liberal “expert”, make it up as you go).
The most amusing part of reading this thread was the numerous stereotypes and racist comments you “progressives” used to disparage D2 as a bigot. Look in the mirror, idiots.
Les, as quick as I’ve seen people on the right bemoan “the race card,” they also need to recognize that people actually do make racist remarks.
It’s pretty unfortunate that in an effort to point out this alleged hypocrasy, you ignore (i.e., tolerate) D2s digusting and unfair caricature of the Somali people.
…if I may continue…
Les, by ignoring his comments, you validate them. It makes D2 believe there’s nothing wrong with comparing immigrants to animals.
Alternatively, if the conservatives who post here actually had the ba11s to call out one of their own on something that’s clearly wrong, D2 might think twice about his beliefs.
Yes you may..
I’m not ignoring his comments, nor endorsing them, just noting that while the pot is calling the kettle black, the soot on the pot is getting thicker and thicker, and while bemoaning his racism, expose their own. The hypocracy is amusing, and diminishes them as much as D2.
I’m sorry if they cant take what they dish out on a daily basis.
If I may continue..
You chastise conservative folks for not condeming what D2 has said? I think you need to go back and check the archives their, bud…
While your at it, you can note the failure of lefty loonies to call out their own when they are out of bounds…
I’m sorry if they cant take what they dish out on a daily basis.
This isn’t about dishing out — it bothers me that you overlook the fact that what he said was exceptionally hateful and bigoted. Calling someone “white trash” because they make ignorant comments is not the same as comparing an entire ethnic group to zoo animals.
CNC re. “adlib is babbling like a brook. Someone give him his meds…”
If I took meds for OCD I’d not be posting here with all “us BQ geeks,” as Sarge puts it. What meds do you take for your delusions of grandeur?
But you have a point that brevity is more or less the soul of wit. In your case less. (Not you Les, No offense.)
Les, re. ‘Such is the value of lefty loonie “facts” such as the unsupported garbage spewed by your self (ad lib is a fine name for a liberal “expert”, make it up as you go’.
Have I claimed to be an expert? Thanks for suggesting I can even be mistaken for one. No what I spout is the assimilated facts from my own perspective and spoken in the form of opinion. Feel free to challenge any contention with supported facts of your own.
Re. the name “adlib…” first used it on the DNC’s own blog during the 2006 congressional campaigns. There were some real live stalwart conservatives blogging 24/7 against stem cell research. The debate was actually fairly intense and therefore enjoyable, although the Libs could’ve used a Jedi knight in that melee. I doubt our little scuffle had any effect on the close Senatorial race in Missouri but who knows? That was my hope. I expect to vacate the BQ blog when MN’s own Senatorial contest is over …or when the polar ice caps melt, whichever comes first.
Les re. “As a defense of the gutless Clinton administration is a prime example of the idiotic logic of the left. You blame 9/11 on Bush, knowing full well the planing for the attack, and the training GOING ON IN THE U.S. for it occurred during Clinton’s watch.”
Due to the two term limit for presidents the American public was as reluctant to see Clinton leave in 2001 as they are relieved that dubbya is almost out of the picture. You are correct that the Al Queda’s was in full swing at the time of the transition. Bush dismissed the only National Security Officers that had a handle on their movements in favor of his own idealogues. (Do your own research, because I’m not expert enough to recite names and dates.) Anyway the result is history.
“comparing an entire ethnic group to zoo animals.”
I never did that Sarge.
So now he backs down when someone calls him out…although I suppose that depends on what your definition of “is” is, right?
Or maybe you think what you actually typed yourself is somehow better because you only said that Somalis are “Islamist” and out to destroy America — that’s not as bad, right?
Still waiting for that definition of Islamist…
Sarge,
An Islamist is someone who is out to convert the world to Islam by any means necessary including terrorism. It appears that SOME Somali’s are Islamists like the ones who left the country for terrorist Jihad.
I never said the Somali’s were like zoo animals, I quoted someone who thought Mayor R.T. Rybak veiwed them that way.
You liberals are great at taking things way out of context and putting your liberal spin on it!
“Due to the two term limit for presidents the American public was as reluctant to see Clinton leave in 2001″
–
Adlib, Here you are definitely speaking for yourself.
I’m glad to see you at least admit your claims are opinion, rather than forgone conclusions.
Sarge; I’ll repeat that I dont condone what D2 posted, And you can rest assured that I didnt go read all his links. However, now you are condoning the same actions by other based on your percieved degree of offensiveness. This not a defense of D2, just an observation on the hypocracy of some poster who while objecting to someone, do the exact same thing they are objecting to. The hypocracy is amusing, even if the degree of audacity is not equal.
So D2, you post this guy’s message, buy you don’t endorse it? I’m sorry, but I don’t buy that for a second. Also, there’s a name for what you’re describing, and it’s not “Islamist” — it’s “Wahabism”, which is a radaical interpration of the Koran followed by a microscopic number of Muslims. I’ll be generous and say you’re making an assumption about them — and we all know what happens when you assume.
Les, thanks for the clarification. Yes racism is a two-way street. However, I don’t think it’s fair to equate racism against people of color to comments like “white trash”. There’s a long and painful history in this country of non-white minorities being discriminated against, and all kinds of baggage that goes along with that — it’s apples and oranges, and racism against people of color is still a huge problem.
White people simply cannot understand what it’s like to be a person of color walking down the street. I got a very very small sample of this when I lived in central Asia. Everyone knew I was an American because I’m white and very American-looking. At that time, in that part of the world, they assumed that my interest there was in narcotics, so I was stopped a lot by the police, and people were scared of me.
Have you ever walked down the street and have every third person look at you in fear? It’s a terrible feeling - I’m glad I only had to deal with that for a short period in my life, but for minorities in the US, it’s a part of everyday life. There is a level of racism in this country that is exceptionally deep, and we as caucasians really have no idea what people of color have to overcome on a daily basis.
This is why I found D2s posted comments so offensive. In addition to looking a certain way that causes fear in uninformed people — he’s attacking them without merit. There is no evidence that the Somalis here in Minnesota are involved with terrorism or radical Islam in anyway. The vast majority are hard working and law abiding, with a strong sense of morality. D2 had no right to attack them.
Nope, in 21 years of service I never was stationed in a foreign land.. Give me a break, I’ve seen it too. that why this…Your postion, is hypocrtical:
–White folks dont know what it’s like to walk down the street in fear..Oppressed minority acting normally, bad whitey..
White folks crossing the street because they are scared when the encounter black youths sporting gang regalia… White Racism., bad whitey again.
As I say, you cant have it both ways.
White folks dont know what it’s like to walk down the street in fear..Oppressed minority acting normally, bad whitey..
That’s not what Sgt said Les, but I think you know that. You find yourself in the awkward position of defending the bigot and so you defend yourself by misrepresenting Sgt’s post. You might try a little honesty instead of sinking to the bigot’s level.
well, Les, I’m not going to agree with Richard here — but he’s right in that you’re talking about something different, and that you don’t seem to understand the underlying issue.
You talk about “gang regalia” - but what about a casually but stylishly dressed professional man on the weekend — let’s say he’s got ultra baggy pants and a cocked to the side baseball hat.
If you think that’s “gang regalia” you’re wrong. But how many people will treat him like a gang member? He could be a multi millionaire and at the mall - if he’s dressed the “wrong” way, security will be following him all over the place thinking that he’s looking for trouble.
99.99% of black people are not gang members — I think it sucks that unless a black person is dressed conservatively, people assume they’re wearing “gang regalia”.
You say, “bad whitey” but it’s not about blame. I’m not making some kind of moral judgement on people who get scared - they just are ignorant to the fact that just because someone wears their clothes a certain way doesn’t make them a gang member. An african-american coworker of mine got pulled over because he had a white sox hat and an altanta braves hat sitting in the rear window of his car. He’s fans of both teams, but the cop thought it was “a gang thing”.
Jihad Recruiting Effort May Explain Missing Somalis in Minneapolis Area:
D2. Either that or they may be themselves be victims of gang violence. Would that cause you any concern?
adlib,
We already know that that the Somali community has a serious gang problem with an extremely high murder rate. That along with the FBI’s concern that there is a strong Islamic terror problem with these immigrants as well is very disturbing and unacceptable.
D2, is this supposed to convince me that somehow the Somali people are to blame for this?
If you read the whole article, it explains why young men join terrorist groups — which demonstrates that we need to do a better job of making Somalis feel welcome and helping them become prosperous.
Richard wrote”
You find yourself in the awkward position of defending the bigot
—
You should learn how to read Richard, I’m defending no one, especially D2, just pointing our your hypocracy.
I fully understand the underlying issue. Use of racial slurs and stereotypes is OK as long as it’s directed at a white person, and is not bigotry.
Back to the endless cries of white victimhood from conservative white males….this is the backbone of the crappy conservative “movement” and a big reason why nothing can be accomplished in this country. Oh, when will the massive discrimation and daily racial insults they suffer from ever end?!
Yep, working class whites and their bitter resentment of all the massive “breaks” that those lucky negroes and other races get, while they totally foot the bill!! And never get anything!
When the wealthy “conservative” manipulators came up with this “backlash” concept, they could never have conceived just how well it would work.
And of course Les thinks it’s “hypocracy” to condemn 2D’s egregious racism, and then use the word “white”. That’s his level of sophistication.
I rest my case.
Thanks for the proof Parial brain.
Les, you’re being really closed-minded about this if that’s what you believe. You believe in racial parity, which isn’t the same as racial equality.
Think of it this way — let’s a guy verbally abused his wife by calling her names for 20 years, then suddenly stopped. You’re saying if she decides to call him an a55hole one day, it’s just as bad as what the husband did. It’s like the n-word - some people think if black folks use that word, then white people should be able to use it too — the point is that they see that word as a weapon, and they’ve taken it away from whites and made it their own. I say good for them.
Les, you seem to believe that racism of any form is wrong, and I commend you for that. But some forms of racism and discrimination are worse than others.
Plus, when you point out hypocrasy without commenting on the original comments, you’re sort of tacitly endorsing those comments.
Q. D2,The problems are known, the causes are debatable. The solutions are not self-evident. What do YOU propose?
A. adlib,A good start is to keep the halt on the refugee program in place, perhaps to give taxpayers a break during these tough economic times if nothing else.
D2 Do you realize that if MN population level stays at its current level that Congress is apt to take away one congressional seat from our state and give it to another state? That may be fine with you if its an urban and presumably democratic district.
What about the inevitable flood of economic refugees from other depressed states with no safety net who’ve voted Republican against their own interests the last dozen years or so? Maybe they’d vote Republican again in Minnesota after our welfare system has saved them from disaster.
From what I’ve seen of Somalian Minnesotans they’re a hard working upwardly mobile lot. Wealth will accrue to some Somalians and this minority will then become less monopolitical in party affiliations.
C’mon D2. Stop thinking small.
Sarge wrote:
But some forms of racism and discrimination are worse than others.
–
OK,, where’s the ranking list, and who did the ranking?
D2 Do you realize that if MN population level stays at its current level that Congress is apt to take away one congressional seat from our state and give it to another state?
—
Point of order.. I dont know the answer, but you need to confirm that non U.S. citizens and refugees are considered in the population figures when redistricting is done. Your argument may be moot.
Les, even if the majority of refugees are not citizens yet that certainly would seem to be their objective. And I don’t believe that citizenship should be awarded to the undeserving, so the achievement of it shouldn’t be automatic.
But you raise a good question about the basis for redistricting. I don’t know the answer to that.
In MN, according to the 2000 Census, 5.3% of the states population were foreign born. 3% of the population were not U.S Citizens.
Still havent found out if that 3% is used for redistricting. All the federal statutes I’ve found are moot on “citizenship” per se.
In MN, according to the 2000 Census, 5.3% of the states population were foreign born. 3% of the population were not U.S Citizens.
Still havent found out if that 3% is used for redistricting. All the federal statutes I’ve found are moot on “citizenship” per se.
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