How the Court Stole Christmas

December 19th, 2008 – 10:26 AM by D.J. Tice

With apologies to Dr. Seuss:

All the Whos down in Whoville liked Christmas a lot,
But the Court in St. Paul very clearly did not.

“We’ve got to stop Christmas from coming somehow,”
Said the Court as it ruled that the Whos must be fooled.

Then the justices had an awful idea,
A scary and maybe unlawful idea.

“Let’s make them keep working and fighting all season,
“Let’s just keep them squabbling ‘till they lose touch with reason!’’

And the thought gave the Court a warm lawyerly feeling,
While reporters in Whoville just about hit the ceiling…

364 Responses to "How the Court Stole Christmas"

parthian says:

December 19th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

Ah, it’s a crappy meltdown Christmas anyway, DJ. Might as well spend it watching Team Coleman and Franken fighting over absentee ballots as watch real kids cryin’ over the lack of toys and second rate BBQ rib Christmas dinners…..

The poor lawyers are the ones missin’ Christmas, them and the state elections officials.

Now, we’ll see which campaign is most “agreeable” to opening the improperly discarded ballots…..

How did that old Grinch song go? Oh yeah…

You’re a foul one, Mr. Norm,
You really are a heel.

You’ve got spiders in your legal briefs
and liz’d peeps in your soul.

I wouldn’t vote for you
If I were in a 99 foot hole!

Happy Christmas, ballot watchers!

parthian says:

December 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

correction: “99 and a half foot hole”

D’Oh!

Cash N. Carey says:

December 19th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

Sorry parth, we all know the anti-Christmas grinch was a liberal.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 19th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

Was there any doubt that Mark Ritchie and his ACORN ilk would somehow find a way to pull off a phony Al Franken victory?

This whole mess going on is a joke and we should just have a special election like they did in Georgia instead of making up the rules in the recount as we go along.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 19th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

Just think if loony liberal Phyllis Kahn (lib-dem Mpls) ever gets her way and 12 year olds are allowed to vote. It would make the “recount” efforts even more interesting trying to decipher crayon scribble.

parthian says:

December 19th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

Why do you hate the rule of law, 2D? And do you scribble on your ballot? I’d say that if YOU can vote, then a 12 year old should CERTAINLY be allowed to.

Perhaps your vote was thrown out by the Demonic Lib’ruls ™ in the recount, 2D—no “ascertainable intent”, ha-ha. You’ll never know WHAT “they” may have done….

And Cash, neither candidate is much of a Christmas blabberer…since they’re both jewish. Sue, Norm, sue!

dare2sayit.com says:

December 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pm

Partisan,

Let’s just have another election and do it the right way to make sure the VOTERS elect our next Senator. Georgia just did that and got a decisive result, and school districts do this all the time with their levies, so let’s JUST DO IT!, and get this over with.

parthian says:

December 20th, 2008 at 8:16 am

Well, the voters DID elect the next senator, we’re just counting the ballots by hand, instead of by machine. But I can see why Repubs would like a mulligan now.

The more I think about it, though, the more I’m against the GA-type special run offs. The second (special) election always has much lower turnout, and ultimately I think such run-offs favor crazed Repubs and their demographics, especially for statewide offices.

Now, if you want to implement a statewide instant run-off system, where each voter selects their top two candidates on election day, that’s another thing.

I wish our DFL legislature would do that to deal with this third party “plurality” problem—which has done nothing but help “conservative” Repub failures (like Pawlenty) get into statewide office.

Make Gov. Toothy veto such election reform to make clear which party knows who’s benefitting from the recent third party plurality craze. I guess the DFL would just prefer to keep ignoring the problem and keep losing the statewide races by 1%.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 20th, 2008 at 9:38 am

“We’re just counting the ballots by hand now”

Sometimes twice!

adlib says:

December 20th, 2008 at 9:40 am

The fact that D2 now advocates a runoff election is a good indication that Franken is emerging as the senator elect in a recount done according to Minnesota’s tradition.

When the margin of votes lawfully cast for him outnumber the margin of ballots Norm’s lawyers can diqualify or dispute by any other stretch then Team Coleman should do what they urged Franken to do and concede to the people’s choice.

lebowski says:

December 20th, 2008 at 10:16 am

how does a guy go from +750 to -250? apply spin here_________

not that it matters much, the choices are a career poitician or a nut job.

i just wish there was something else going on…ya know, a crooked governor, a soured economy, a president elect, something. Is the BQ only about local issues? Completely bored with the Senate recount.

Maybe we need some sort of GOP scandal to get a subject change?

Peace out, Homies.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 20th, 2008 at 11:05 am

adlib,

A fair recount would be great, but we seem to be making up the rules as we go to benefit Franken.

Dora says:

December 20th, 2008 at 11:53 am

DTSI-bot, exactly what rules are being made up as we go?

SgtPendleton says:

December 20th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

FYI — the Grinch didn’t become a liberal until the end of the story…Just like Scrooge.

Attn D2-bot programmers: You’ve made D2-bot too much of a hypocrite. Seriously. Even Rush Limbaugh is more pragmatic — it’s just not a believeable program anymore. You need to review your requirements and find a different way of doing this. It’s time for D2-Bot 2.1

SgtPendleton says:

December 20th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

Lewbowski wrote: how does a guy go from +750 to -250? apply spin here_________

D2-SI BOT wrote: but we seem to be making up the rules as we go to benefit Franken.

Here’s an idea: READ THE STORY. Or at least learn about the issues before you dismiss it as slanted.

To anyone who’s actually followed this, it’s easy to understand why and how the vote totals changed — but more importantly, that the GOP has been represented in every stage of the recount.

I don’t always agree with Les (or parthian for that matter), but at least they’ve taken the time to try and understand exactly what’s happening before commenting on it.

parthian says:

December 20th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

SgtP, I’ve told you before, the RNC pulled the funding for all its Conserva-Post ™ blog posting software products after the failed 2.0 (2002) version, i.e the one we know as “2D”.

We all can see the hopeless problems—banal, fact-free slogans, no arguments, a complete inability to answer questions—even questions simply asking it what a prior post was even talking about!

Conserva-Post 2.0 never should have been allowed out of the lab, but I’ve heard non-english speaking islamofascists got a hold of a copy and recklessly released it onto the internet, foolishly thinking it would help in “attacking” lib’ruls who were advocating sensible policies regarding terrorism.

There was a rumor that the RNC was going to revive the Conserva-Post ™ project this year to beef up conservative “presence” on the blogs, but then the massive clothing, hairstyling and make-up costs for Lady MooseBreath started coming in, and that was the end of that.

So lil’ 2D is the last of his kind, with no “upgrades” ever to appear, and no troubleshooting or support services to modify “him”. Sad, sort of…..

dare2sayit.com says:

December 20th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Sarge,

FACT: Mark Ritchie has a long history of strong ties to ACORN who’s main mission is democrat vote fraud. A guy like that shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near ANY recount efforts.

And Sarge, can’t you come up with something original for me instead of using Dora’s “cleaver” idea?

dare2sayit.com says:

December 20th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

Caution:
***************************************
Partisan’s Commu-Post â„¢ 2.0 contains flawed Marxist logic and should be used for amusement purposes only.

Dora says:

December 20th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

parthian, I always get a good chuckle out of your clever Conserva-Post â„¢ satire.

Oh yeah DTSI-bot, damn that Ritchie for selecting two Pawlenty appointees and a Ventura appointee for the Canvassing Board. Where’s the actual answer to what rules you claim are being made up?

And you poor little -bot you accuse Sarge of not being original and then you go on to post your riff from parthian’s brilliant Conserva-Post â„¢ . I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything original from you. Then again, that’s why you’re a -bot. Machines aren’t original they are only repetitive drones. Garbage in, garbage out as the saying goes. And as parthian has also aptly pointed out, you consume mass quantities of garbage.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 20th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

“partisan’s brilliant Conserva-Post â„¢”

HA!!!

Dora says:

December 20th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

and still not able to provide an answer to what rules you claim are being made up.

So typical of you DTSI-bot. You can’t articulate the reasons behind your opinions. You spout inflammatory rhetoric, make puffed-up generalizations, and when asked for specifics you go off on tangents.

You’re so very transparent DTSI-bot. And quite boring.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 20th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

Dora,
Anti-Strib had a good piece on Mark Ritchie’s antics (read below)
***********************************
It looks like George Soros funded SOS Mark Ritchie is doing what he was paid to do, deliver a close race to the Democrats.

The state Canvassing Board’s ballot rulings today in the U.S. Senate race has unofficially put challenger Al Franken in the lead by more than 250.

Also this morning, the State Canvassing Board sidestepped the Coleman team’s proposal to prevent as many as 150 ballots from being counted twice. Talking about instances when a ballot couldn’t be run through a voting machine, requiring a duplicate to be made, the Coleman camp said that such ballots should be counted only if an original could be matched with its copy.

However, board members today ruled that the duplicates should not be addressed by the board but in “another forum,” said Board Chairman Mark Ritchie.

I mean what are the odds that ever single question put before the canvassing board, chaired by Soros puppet Mark Ritchie, is decided in Al Franken’s favor? The recount found 133 missing ballots in Minneapolis, so those votes should be thrown out right? Nope, that would have hurt Al Franken.

A voting machine in St. Louis County just happens to have a date of Nov. 2 on the slip that gave Al Franken 200 extra votes. Maybe we should look into that? Nope, that would hurt Al Franken.

And now the biggest scam of all. When a bad ballot is scanned on election day, the reader rejects those that are marked incorrectly. The voter then can decided to get a new ballot, or they can accept that their mistake will nullify that vote. Many voters decided that they didn’t care to fix their ballot and willingly and knowingly re-submitted a ballot with an invalid vote. They chose not to have their vote count. But Now Mark Ritchie is looking at each and everyone one of those ballots and has decided that most people that are too lazy to fix their ballot or too apathetic to give a sh|t are mostly Franken supporters. (He’s probably right about this, more losers voted for Franken than Coleman).

One of the best things about Minnesota is that once a politician is bought, he stays bought! That kind of loyalty is refreshing to vote buyers like Soros. You just can’t buy that kind of loyalty in places like Chicago.

Dora says:

December 20th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

another diversionary tactic DTSI-bot? That screed against Ritchie does not answer the claim you made about rules being made up. What rules are being made up?

And what a ridiculous screed it is. As if Ritchie is the only one looking at the challenged ballots.

Coleman is paying for legal representation. His lawyers aren’t contesting those 133 ballots (probably since there is precedent for what the Canvassing Board did) nor are they contesting the wrong date on the St. Louis County machine tape. Maybe Coleman’s lawyers are in on the “fix” with Ritchie. Yeah, that’s it!! haha.

Oh, and BTW, those “bad ballots” that were reviewed also included Coleman voters that were ruled for him.

And the attempt to tie him to George Soros is the most utterly asinine thing I’ve ever read.

You write the same type of factless garbage. No wonder you think it’s a “good piece”.

SgtPendleton says:

December 20th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

FACT: D2SI bot is incapable of backing up his claims with proof.

What’s this business about George Soros and Mark Ritchie? Classic wingnut tactic: create a lie and perpetuate it like it’s accepted fact…Just like the “connection” between the 9/11 terrorists and Saddam Hussein. Repeat a lie often enough, and people believe it.

Thanks for the background on D2SI-bot and the Conserva-Post software issue, Parth. It’s kind of a sad story really.

parthian says:

December 20th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

Remember the old Repub show “Lost in Soros”?

Robot (arms flailing): “Danger, Will Wingnut, Danger! Soros! Ritchie! ACORN!! Danger!” (Arms flail)

2D (playing Will): Gol’ durn, that Soros is everywhere, Robot! Dr Anti-Strib Smith said he saw Soros’s face in the spaceship toilet yesterday, and then it was…..gone. Spooky.

Robot: That does not compute, Will Wingnut, but Soros has indeed funded every person that the Kingdom of Wingnuttia disagrees with. Danger! Danger! Double counting! Duplicates! Absentee ballots!

Dr Smith (running—played by CNC): Help! Help! Help! (breathless) Oh thank heavens I’ve found you, Will, the innocent babies, I’ve saved them from Soros! Millions of them! But the multi-headed ACORN monster is right behind me!! Oh, Run, Run!

Robot: Danger! Danger! (flails)

Giant ACORNS begin falling on our intrepid heroes, while the demonic laughter of the unseen Soros can be heard in the distance….Dr. Smith cowers, the Robot flails, Will wingnut starts crying….what WILL they do!!?? (freeze frame, dramatic music…)

Tune in next week for the next exciting episode of “Lost in Soros”….where Will Wingnut discovers Soros funded the highest levels of CO2 in 650,000 years solely to stop the Robinson Family from escaping the planet in their Cadillac Escalade….!

dare2sayit.com says:

December 20th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

The libs are getting restless I see.

I thought the anti-Strib piece had some really good points, but because they are critical of liberals they are invalid as far as you libs are concerned.

Partisan, you probably travel around the country following those Star Trek conventions, right?

Dora says:

December 20th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

parthian you’ve outdone yourself. Very funny.

Still no anwer to what rules have been made up, eh DTSI-bot?

adlib says:

December 20th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

DJ Tice, clever riff on Dr Seuss. Parthian, good comeback. lebowski,good point about other things to discuss.

Like why, D2 and CNC, do some humans consider the term “liberal” to be perjorative? It means generous. I’d say it characterized such Republicans as Lincoln and Eisenhower.

SgtPendleton says:

December 20th, 2008 at 10:41 pm

Very entertaining read Parth – thank you!

D2, instead of talking about the only thing you love more than Lyndon LaRouche (i.e. Star Trek), why don’t you tell us about all the rules/laws that have allegedly been changed or made up to help Franken?

dare2sayit.com says:

December 21st, 2008 at 8:21 am

Sarge,

Why are you liberals ignoring the problems exposed by the piece I posted from anti-Strib?

parthian says:

December 21st, 2008 at 8:46 am

Thanks for the kind words, BQers.

And on our beautiful Winter Solstice, I wish all a happy Yule.

Richard says:

December 21st, 2008 at 10:16 am

Bigot, the anti-strib, really? Aren’t those guys the “dirt eating pagans” guys? I read the post, saw a lot of slime and innuendo but no proof. I saw no evidence of wrongdoing or illegality. I saw bigots whining but little else.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 21st, 2008 at 11:25 am

“And on our beautiful Winter Solstice”

Merry Christmas to you too Partisan!

Dora says:

December 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pm

you see DTSI-bot, the reason no one takes your postings seriously is because you can’t provide one scintilla of evidence to back up your claims. Rantings from some other blogger about Ritchie does not answer the question asked of you by multiple people to state what rules have been made up as you claimed–it’s merely another one of your tangents.

Happy Yule to you parthian and all the current and former BQ bloggers.

I wonder if they’ll pull the plug on this experiment in the new year?

adlib says:

December 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm

Dora wrote “I wonder if they’ll pull the plug on this experiment in the new year?”

I have wondered the same thing. As names, Adlib or Dora are too short to post on the threads opened by main opinion articles. I believe registering to post on those requires a name at least six characters long, which I’m unable to do from this web address while known as adlib. These threads sometimes grow to have 400 or more posts so that any kind of dialogue becomes problematic.

I prefer the BQ’s format although not its current scarcity of topics. One name however that posts frequently and everywhere on the STRIB’s opinion articles and blogs is …dare I say it? I’ll give you two guesses. Not sure I can say everywhere though. It probably doesn’t post on the pet blog.

SgtPendleton says:

December 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pm

…and D2, where’s the connection between Soros and Ritchie? You haven’t made that connection either.

You’re saying Ritchie is owned by Soros, and they’re changing laws to favor Franken — I’m not willing to accept those things as fact until you provide some evidence — yet you’re not even willing to provide an explanation, let alone some kind of evidence.

But since you’re actually a computer program (or just really dumb), you’re incapable of reading someone else’s post and commenting on it — so what’s the difference? And why am I talking to a machine?

Dora says:

December 21st, 2008 at 3:10 pm

yes SgtP, no use talking to this machine. It’s proven it’s inability to pass the Turing test.

Dora says:

December 21st, 2008 at 3:18 pm

ugh, its not it’s on both.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm

“Happy Yule to you Partisan”

I guess we’ll never hear a Merry Christmas out of any of you leftists.

Richard says:

December 21st, 2008 at 5:31 pm

I guess we’ll never hear any defense of your asinine posts, Bigot. Maybe this Christmas you’ll discover a more generous and humane opinion of your fellow human beings. Maybe you’ll leave your “dirt eating pagans” buddies to the past. But I doubt it

dare2sayit.com says:

December 21st, 2008 at 6:32 pm

As I said, we’ll never hear a Merry Christmas out of any of you leftists.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

SgtPendleton says:

December 21st, 2008 at 9:54 pm

D2 you are a coward – throwing unsubstantiated B.S. out there and refusing to back it up. You get my Scrooge 2008 Award.

Merry Christmas Richard!

Cash N. Carey says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 12:08 am

I hope everyone is staying safe and warm. Another day of global warming.

God bless you D2! Thanks for bringing the truth to the lefties.

And a heartfelt Merry Christmas to all.

6th district Jim says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 7:53 am

Yes, CNC it is funny to see the hate speech directed at D2 and his posts.
Ewwwww, he posts such evil things.
Just like KK.
Not. Like Warren, D2, you are a good citizen the fascists try to suppress.
Get used to it. It’s called “change.”
i.e. different points of view not welcome.
How far the BQ has wandered from eric’s initial premise.
And they wonder why nobody posts….

I am with adlib, however, it is more fun lately to post on the main articles.
Hope to see you there.
And dont let them discourage you D2, they are small people who spend way too much time screaming on the “BQ.”
Probably makes up for their frustration at the global freeze down, the trillion dollar deficit, the 11 trillion dollar debt, unending wars, etc etc. And their guys have at least half the hand in this collossal mess. Probably more.
Yes, that 11/2006 election tidal wave really did bring “CHANGE.”
Merry Xmas one and all, we need it.

Dora says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 8:35 am

has nothing to do with “different points of view” google doctor Jim. But you know that. You’re just helping DTSI-bot out by more distraction. None of you conservatives that post here ever bother to back up your claims. Just repeat them and they magically become true.

John E Iacono says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 9:00 am

Lots of spin on this thread of late…

For what it’s worth, my opinion at this stage of the recount is that it will not yield a winner that half of the voters will accept, no matter which way it goes. Too many “funny” decisions.

I would not want to be in congress with that kind of a win.

SgtPendleton says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 9:37 am

Don’t let us discourage him? Jim, in the past you’ve offered explanations and links when asked — he just makes dumb statements and won’t back anything up. You want to encourage that?

Richard says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 5:58 pm

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Democrat Al Franken is poised to hold on to a 48-vote lead over Republican Sen. Norm Coleman as Minnesota’s Canvassing Board awards a final pile of votes in the state’s unsettled U.S. Senate race. But the counting isn’t over yet.

The board on Tuesday is to award votes from about 5,000 challenges that had been withdrawn by both campaigns. Based on a draft report released late Monday by the Secretary of State’s office, once those votes are awarded Franken will have 48 more votes than Coleman.

Senator Smokescreen is all done. Seeya Normy, good luck with the FBI.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Jim,

Leftists on the blog tolerate different points of view, as long as they are liberal ones.

Now that the lib’s have taken over Washington, we’ll probably see a lot more of this suppression of different views when they try to enact the “Fairness Doctrine”. Their goal is to get conservatives off the air.

Cash N. Carey says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 7:26 pm

Don’t worry D2Si, the libs don’t have a backbone. They wouldn’t come through for the Detroit automakers and they are backing down from card check already. Without Bush to kick around, they don’t know what to do!

Dora – you make me laugh. Claims that aren’t backed up? Look in the mirror if you dare.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 8:06 pm

“Don’t worry D2Si, the libs don’t have a backbone.”

I guess you’re right Cash! The lib’s call conservatives “intolerant” and “bigots” for not supporting gay marriage, but do you think Obama and lib friends will do anything about it once they take over everything? Hell no!

adlib says:

December 22nd, 2008 at 10:17 pm

Once again why is the term liberal a perjorative? What are you guys, Tories?
Without patriotic American Liberals to break away from Conservatives loyal to King George we’d all be Canadians, and I don’t mean Canadian Liberals.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 3:55 am

Liberals would be too chicken to break away from anything, especially if it required firearms.

Richard says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 8:56 am

Once the Canvassing Board restores the votes from the final group of 5,000 withdrawn challenges, Franken will have gained 3,191 votes out of the total pool of challenged votes and Coleman will have gained 2,955 votes. That adds up to a 236-vote advantage for Franken, enough to wipe out the 188-vote lead that Coleman had held before the Canvassing Board started ruling on disputed ballots. That was out of almost 3 million votes cast on Nov. 4.

That’s from the AP 5 hours ago. I’m wondering if, now that he’s fallen behind, Coleman will save the people of the state further costs and concede that race and withdraw.

God bless President Obama and Senator Franken.

adlib says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 9:16 am

Re.Liberals would be too chicken to break away from anything, especially if it required firearms.

Ah yes d2, you persist in equating Liberals with Democrats. If you had your way there would be no middle ground in American politics. You want to make the Republican party a domain exclusive to the right wing. Its big tent should welcome all OPPOSED to any gun control, Moslems, public schools, integration, women’s rights, abortion, unions, the Union…. It would PROMOTE fundamentalist Christianity, prophecy fulfillment, pre-millenial dispensationalism, the persecution of gays, the end of data privacy, survivalism and secessionism.

The one thing that members of this ORK army all have in common is that they detest “liberals.” Well enjoy your term on the back bench guys. America expects no more from you than FDR expected from those opposed to the US declaration of war on their Nazi brethren.

You always dare to say it d2, but that’s because it costs you nothing say it. Don’t underestimate the mandate America gave the new administration to resolve problems that have come home to roost in the last eight years. A centrist administration will certainly seem liberal to you, but it will dare to make changes.

parthian says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 9:22 am

“[Dems] wouldn’t come through for the Detroit automakers…”

Um, the senate Hooverite Repubs filibustered the Detroit bailout, remember, Preacher Cash?

And what was the latest news about (non-union) Toyota’s profit for 2008? Oh yeah, Toypta is now projecting its first operating loss since the 30s. Wrong again, Cash.

But it’s Detroit’s unions that are the main problem, not the credit crunch! Riiight…..doofus wingnuts.

And what’s all this about “intolerance”? Destroying 2D’s “arguments” is hardly “intolerance”, it’s just demonstrating he’s a sewage-brained cretin—and it’s good fun to boot! The problem is that it’s too easy, because the “conservatives” who post here are such lame-*ss ignoramuses.

Anyway, 2D obviously loves it, he couldn’t imagine his bleak exurban existence without the StarTrib site, and he simply can’t get enough mockery and humiliation. It just feeds into the self-proclaimed “victim” status so beloved of conservative white males.

“We’re bein’ suppressed by having our foolish arguments destroyed!! We’re victims! Intolerance! Waaaah!” Yeah, that’s some real “backbone”, he-ha.

SgtPendleton says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 11:48 am

Yes, Cash and D2, boldy making statements they’re unable to back up…OR EVEN EXPLAIN! Just spewing the same mindless spin from the wingnut blog-o-sphere and The Google. And those hateful liberals, asking for more information.

But wait Parth — those southern GOP’ers were trying to SAVE the big 3 by encouraging them to “reorganize” their debt. Don’t you get it? Allowing them to go into bankruptcy would have saved them! You obviously didn’t learn the #1 lesson of Viet Nam: “In order to save the village, we had to destroy it.”

Nevermind the fact that Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes all have plants in the senators’ home states…

Richard says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 12:09 pm

You forgot to mention Sgt, those states with Toyota and Honda and Nissan and BMW and Mercedes manufacturing plants have been given huge tax deferments by those states. In other words, while the Federal government sends Michigan tax dollars to Alabama to help pay the bills, Alabama is giving Toyota tax breaks. UAW workers helping to support it’s competition. I agree with the Southern Senators in that a new plan is needed. How about zero dollars from Northern states goes to Southern states. No monies from the manufacturing Northeast or Mid-West goes to support the corrupt and foreign bought Senators in the South.

adlib says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Aren’t you gun-luvvin toughs glad you can now carry concealed weapons in national parks? The border police however, those charged with homeland security, feel the new ruling made their jobs that much harder since they could previously have assumed the armed and dangerous types were all bad guys.

Since our National Guard will be on duty overseas until the war on AlQueda East is concluded maybe some licensed handgun owners could be deputized to help guard the Canadian border. If so, however, it would be best to carry your piece in an unconcealed holster and wear a deputy badge. Otherwise it would be healthy to avoid the BWCA.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 7:49 pm

Partisan,

At least I’m proud to say I’m a Conservative. You won’t even come out and admit you’re a Commun*st.

adlib says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 9:29 pm

D2. The original Christians were all communists, sharing their resources and communion with each other. I’m afraid I insulted the conservative Pharisees of Jesus’s day when I said Cash sounded like one of them. After all these learned scholars were keepers of the tradition in which the Messiah was always expected to come someday, although they passed on Jesus as the Jewish Messiah.
But a Messiah of the present or future is better than one who is ancient history and whose brand gets abused by so called conservatives like yourself.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 9:57 pm

“sharing their resources and communion with each other.”

That doesn’t make someone a communist! We do that in church all the time, but churches are banned in communist countries adlib! Pull your head out!

SgtPendleton says:

December 24th, 2008 at 12:19 am

LOL — like clockwork — D2 has nowhere to go, so he calls Parth a communist. That’s really funny — you could set your watch to something like that.

D2, you are intellectually bankrupt — you could easily clear this matter up and gain some respect from me if you simply demonstrated the Mark Ritchie and George Soros connection, and explain which rules are being rewritten to favor Al Franken. That’s all — it’s what you claimed before…but I suspect you’ll probably just ignore this post and try to change the subject — like the coward you are.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 24th, 2008 at 7:07 am

“so he calls Parth a communist.”

He is Sarge! Ask him!

dare2sayit.com says:

December 24th, 2008 at 8:12 am

Merry Christmas everyone!

Richard says:

December 24th, 2008 at 8:39 am

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/1867484/newsmax-baselessly-asserts-franken-vote-grab-ignores-harris-parallels/

Here’s a good breakdown on the source for the Soros/Richie connection those “dirt eating pagans” boys at anti strib are hyperventilating about. Actually it’s more about how dishonest anyone trying to make that connection is being.

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 8:51 am

Aren’t you gun-luvvin toughs glad you can now carry concealed weapons in national parks? The border police however, those charged with homeland security, feel the new ruling made their jobs that much harder since they could previously have assumed the armed and dangerous types were all bad guys.
—-

And how many of them “bad guys” advertised they were armed and dangerous? Zero? So, explain, what is your problem with the U.S. Constitution? Second, explain how armed and “dangerous” are the same thing. other than a hollywood cloqialism. You should be glad that the “bad guys” can no longer be certian that the average joe is in fact unarmed and vulnerable. They now have to contend with the “armed and law abiding”.

I’m not sure what a “gun loving tough” means to you, but I’m certian that all the law abiding gun owners I know, and there are many, don’t meet that description.

But hey, we all know that stereotypical unsuported BS is OK as long as it agree’s with the “progressives” PC agenda.

Richard says:

December 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am

Les, we all know that a Conceal/Carry permit is for those men whose feelings of inadequacy is so great they feel the need to carry a gun. Little boys playing cowboy. It is simply another piece of man jewelry. Now, if they feel the need to accessorize I say carry permits for swords is the answer. Imagine the fashion statements that could be made. All those closeted pistol carrying wanna-be John Waynes could go wild with jewels and ribbons.

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:00 am

Put another way, so you biased anti gun sloganeers can understand…

1. How many additional “bad guys” are going to be in the park because law abiding, licensed (which is unconstitutional in itself) folks can now carry their weapons.

TOTAL = ZERO.

2. How many “bad guys” stayed out of parks becuase the law said you couldnt carry in them.

TOTAL = ZERO.

3. What has happened to the violent crime rate in Minnesota since must issue concealed carry was passed?

ITS DECREASED..

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:06 am

Richard,, your biggotry continues to show through. As well as your ignorance. Dont pretend your progressive bigotted BS is “we all know” You demand facts until it’s your bias is being questioned, then it’s “we all know” You make a fool of yourself. Further, I guess you feel the founding fathers were “inadequate”

The ability to carry doesnt equal actually carrying. But a gunaphobe wouldn’t know that would you.

So, what is the violent crime figures these days they just released them last week I beleive……

BTW,, for the record, I dont have, and am not seeking a CCW. I’m a rifleman myself.

Richard says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:09 am

How many incidents where a C/C permit holder successfully defended him/her self using the permitted firearm?

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:20 am

I dont know, off hand, but there are at least 10 self defense with a firearm stories in each monthly issue of the American Rifleman. Many of them are home invasion stories, but some are defense “on the street”

So,, right back at ya..How many muggings did not occur due to the passage of “shall issue” laws

By the way, I can make up a “Firearms Free Zone” sign for your front door, you want hang it up?

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:23 am

You can hand your sword right under the picture of a handgun with a international “no” slash through it.

John E Iacono says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:34 am

On Right to Carry:

A long time ago (when I was young), there was no such thing as “right to carry.”

The second amendment was understood as it had been for nearly 200 years, and it was not even discussed that anyone had the right to have a weapon and to “carry” it if they felt the need.

People went hunting, or target shooting, or plinking when they felt like it, and NOONE suggested this made them “dangerous.”

The government made surplus military weapons available to all who chose to buy them. Army camps were used for national marksmanship matches, and being “a good shot” was respected.

Politicians, theough they might have been a bit uncomfortable about it from time to time, knew that if they got TOO far out of line they could always be brought back in line by an armed populace, just as the founding fathers intended.

The rest of the world, ruled by totalitarian powers in many cases, did what had been the rule elsewhere for centuries: they preferred to face an unarmed populace unable to resist their police, secret police, and armies. But we were different. We knew it. And we pitied those unfortunate citizens in the rest of the world, if we thought about it at all.

Now we face a test whether we will join the ranks of those who are powerless in the face of a tyrannical government.

The Obama administration has already posted a web page listing the efforts it intends to make to make us so with “reasonable regulations”, in the face of the recent Supreme Court decision affirming our right.

Whether they succeed or not will be key to the future preservation of our government “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”

Richard says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:38 am

10 self defense with a firearm stories in each monthly issue of the American Rifleman.

I was hoping for the number in Minnesota and from a more reputable source then a magazine that actively promotes gun ownership. I own several guns myself Les, and since my children started moving around, I keep them locked away with the ammunition locked away in a separate location. My father taught me gun safety, and I learned to be as manic and uncompromising about it as he was. I have never had a accidental discharge and have insisted on hunting companions that exhibit the same safety practices that I do. The problem with CC, is that it attracts exactly the wrong type of person, and it ties the hands of the local officials. Are there responsible gun owners with CC permits, with legitimate needs for the permit? Absolutely. Are there less then responsible persons with no real need for the permit carrying loaded weapons? Thanks to must issue, yes.

John E Iacono says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:40 am

Richard,

If you read the American Rifleman you would know that at least five or six examples of citizens successfully defending themselves from armed (and presumably unlicensed) aggressors are listed EVERY MONTH.

They simply reprint the various news articles which describe the incidents, where often the defender does not need to fire a shot, but only hold the would be criminal until police arrive.

John E Iacono says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:46 am

Richard,

Every restriction on the people’s right to have and bear arms, from permits to registration (which carries the ability to come and confiscate) only brings us closer to the state of the citizen vs the political powers the founding fathers feared, having recently thanked God they were not like their brothers in England who were not allowed to be armed.

The better solution to persons using firearms for criminal activities is to ALWAYS charge them with that crime when appropriate, and NEVER let it be “traded away” in a plea bargain.

Richard says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:49 am

Politicians, theough they might have been a bit uncomfortable about it from time to time, knew that if they got TOO far out of line they could always be brought back in line by an armed populace, just as the founding fathers intended.

This is known as the “Rambo Fantasy”. The idea that a “armed populace” could wage a insurrection to “bring the government back in line” is completely hilarious. Me and my Browning Autolite are going successfully hold back the forces of tyranny? Right, that could happen. Me and my .300 Savage are going to hold the line on a dictatorship rearing it’s ugly head? Yeah, that’s the ticket.

John E Iacono says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:51 am

Richard,

Please look to the bigger picture here, and not just the latest local event where the press often ignores relevant facts to press an invalid argument.

No one believes that if guns are banned or restricted criminal elements will give up their weapons.

It has not happened in England, where violent crimes have increased significantly since arms were banned.

It has only made victims unable to defend themselves out of law abiding citizens.

I hope you do not wish this on the American public.

John E Iacono says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:54 am

Richard,

“Me and my 80 million fellow armed citizens” would face a police and armed forces many of whom would join us.

This is no “Rambo fantasy.”

Dora says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:54 am

Les said: 3. What has happened to the violent crime rate in Minnesota since must issue concealed carry was passed?

ITS DECREASED..

Oy. Another person who doesn’t understand cause and effect.

Les also said: there are at least 10 self defense with a firearm stories in each monthly issue of the American Rifleman. Many of them are home invasion stories, but some are defense “on the street”.

Hopefully you’re not basing your previous comment on that.

John E Iacono says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:57 am

By the way,

your view was that of King George. Did not work so well for him.

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 10:09 am

I was hoping for the number in Minnesota and from a more reputable source then a magazine that actively promotes gun ownership

Your ignorance continues to show. These reports, while republished in the NRA’s magazine, are news report from local newspapers througout the country….The fact they are consolidated in one magazine, and limited to one page, has nothing to do with the source of the info. Sorry to bust your bubble. By the way, I was hoping for ANY data from you to support the unsubstaniated rhetoric your repeating.

I dont have a number for MN for ya, As reports of crimes not committed are usually not kept. I’m unaware of any instance in which a shot was fired by a CC permit holder.. I’m still waiting for your answer on the firearms free zone.

Also, could you back this statement up with some data?

“Are there less then responsible persons with no real need for the permit carrying loaded weapons? Thanks to must issue, yes.”

though not.

Further ignorance and bigottry..

“This is known as the “Rambo Fantasy”. The idea that a “armed populace” could wage a insurrection to “bring the government back in line” is completely hilarious”

I guess someone should re-educate the Taleban and Palestinians.

The fact your limited to your browning and 300 Savage is further evidence of the unconstitutional erosion of your second amendment rights.

Dora… Try reading some facts..In every instance that gun restrictions are relazed, violent crime decreases. In those instance gun ownership is further restricted, violent crime increases.

Check out data on England and Australia. Hell, look at NYC and Washington DC.. Talk about not understanding cause and effect.. How did that koolaid taste, BTW.

Richard says:

December 24th, 2008 at 10:10 am

John, please look at reality and give up the little boy fantasies.

five or six examples of citizens successfully defending themselves from armed (and presumably unlicensed) aggressors are listed EVERY MONTH.

Assuming these are all factual that totals 50 or 60 a year.

Okay fair enough, in year 2005, 2206 children were killed with firearms. Those statistics are from the CDC.

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 10:17 am

How many times did anti CCW laws take a life… Several…

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&hl=en

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am

Talk about a anti gun biased organization.. The CDC….

You want that sign yet??? If not, why not?

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 10:22 am

BTW,, You forgot to mention the CDC considers 18 year old criminals as “childeren” and those figure include “gang activity”.

5o ro 60 a year are what are published in a magazine that devotes 1 page to the issue each month. Dont pretend the figures are all inclusive. your just upset that the data you thought didnt exist acrually does.

How about that sign???

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 10:32 am

Where’s my manners..

Dora,, I’ll make up a “Firearms Free Zone” sign for your front door also. As a bonus for not offering earlier, I’ll even add “911 is our shield” for ya.

Would you hang it on your front door?

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 10:42 am

BAN AUTOPMOBILES..

Injuries due to transportation were the leading cause of death for children.

* The highest death rates were among occupants of motor vehicles in traffic.
* There were also a substantial number of pedestrian and pedal cyclist deaths among children.

http://www.cdc.gov/safechild/Child_Injury_Data.htm

adlib says:

December 24th, 2008 at 11:12 am

Les and John, Next time you’re in the BCA with your firearms be aware of your location vis a vis Canada. Those Canadian gendarmes will take your prized guns away and melt them for scrap iron if you don’t plead for mercy. And if you resist you could cause an international incident.

The homicide rates in Canada and Europe are growing – but in no way do they compare with the US where, as Eldridge Cleaver said “violence is as American as apple pie.”

adlib says:

December 24th, 2008 at 11:23 am

Take those monthly reports of crimes stopped by armed citizens and weigh them agains the monthly rate of children killed by accident with their parent’s weapon or of gun owners killed with their own weapon due to accident, suicide, or takeway by assailants and you’d realize the numbers favor no one but gun and munitions suppliers. Since Les considers Richard to be too lightly armed, lets expand the winners circle to include the Military Industrial Complex that Ike warned us about.

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 11:27 am

Adlib is entirely correct, in countries where you dont have the protection of the U.S. constitution, you are subject to arbitratry disarmament.

Take those accidental child firearm deaths and compare them to child deaths in automobiles and explain to me why you allow anyone to posses a drivers license. Your red herring is showing.

Les says:

December 24th, 2008 at 11:28 am

Say adlib,,, I make a sign for you too. Will you hang it up?

Cash N. Carey says:

December 24th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Merry Christmas to all!

Even the anti-Christian bigots will see the light at some point.

(That would mean you adlib.)

Cash N. Carey says:

December 24th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Merry Christmas to all!

Even the anti-Christian bigots will see the light at some point.

(That would mean you adlib.)

John E Iacono says:

December 24th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

For those who perceive the threat in disarming law abiding citizens, I am in agreement.

For those who naively believe that such disarmament would do anything but increase the danger for individual citizens and our society, I hope for your enlightenment before you become a victim of your own beliefs.

And to all, large and small, young and old, left and right, I wish you the peace and joy promised to Christians in this Christmas season.

adlib says:

December 24th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Les, re. Take those accidental child firearm deaths and compare them to child deaths in automobiles and explain to me why you allow anyone to posses a drivers license. Your red herring is showing.

True Les, without automobiles there would be no automobile deaths…or one person’s freedom ends where another’s bumper begins. No point in abridging anyone’s right to drive an unsafe vehicle, consume alcohol or talk on a
cell phone while driving. Just ban all automobiles or restrict nothing at all.

Dora says:

December 24th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

where you getting your stats from Les, the NRA or John Lott perhaps?? tee, hee.

adlib says:

December 24th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Okay, everyone has to go do the X-mas thing. My gift to my wife and to y’all is going to be NO BLOGGING for two days starting now. I just want to leave you with a message from Michelle Obama who’s longtime avocacy for the homeless did not begin just this season…

I hope you will join me in supporting your favorite charity or contributing to causes that are especially meaningful to me and my family.

While many of us will spend the holidays counting our blessings and sharing dinner with loved ones, millions of people around the country won’t be so fortunate. Donating to your local food bank will help provide a holiday meal to people in your community who can’t afford one.

Talking with the families of deployed troops was one of the most rewarding experiences I had during the campaign. Giving to Operation USO Care Package is a great way to send members of our military stationed around the world a reminder that someone back home is thinking of them.

This is a time to celebrate our blessings, the new year, and a new era for our country. But it’s also a time to come together on behalf of those who need our help.

Here’s a few food shelf org.s

Minnesota Food Share / 1001 East Lake Mpls 55404-0509 (pgm of mpls council of churches)

Second Harvest Heartland 1140 Gervais Ave / St Paul 55109

Emergency Foodshelf Network / 8501 54th Ave N / New Hope 55428

Emergency Relief:
American Red Cross /1201 West River Parkway / Mpls 55454

USO: Inited Services Organazation PO Box 96860 . Washington DC 20077-7677

And of course the Salvation Army could alsways use larger donations than the bell ringers get in their kettles although I recommend donating at every store or corridor where one is stationed…it helps to prime the pump for others to give. Merry Christmas everyone!

Dora says:

December 24th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

Thanks adlib.

And don’t forget to donate to your local animal humane society. A bag of pet food for different kinds of pets would be a good donation too. Those who are visiting food shelves also have trouble feeding their pets.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night….

SgtPendleton says:

December 25th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

2nd Amendment is a dead issue, folks. Just a few months ago, the Supreme Court rules that you can’t ban gun ownership – period. Case closed.

As for as conceal and carry is concerned, it’s a good law, whether you agree with it or not. The principle behind is rather than proving you NEED a gun, the state is required to give a reason why you can’t have one. The burden of proof if you will is on the government.

And Richard / Dora – no disrespect intended, but I recall right before the conceal and carry law was revised, people were screaming that all he11 was going to break loose because all the kookie wingnuts out there would be carrying gun.

Here we are some 6 years later, and I haven’t heard of a single incident related to this law. Have you?

I’m liberal as he11, but one thing I still believe in is the 2nd amendment.

Richard says:

December 26th, 2008 at 8:04 am

I still believe in is the 2nd amendment.

As do I, but, the answer to gun violence is not more guns or easier access to guns. While it’s true that gun violence won’t disappear simply by removing guns but we can reduce gun violence by aggressively removing guns from the hands of criminals. Aggressively pursueing those that illegally purchase and sell guns. I’m not a big fan of mandatory sentencing but automatically tacking on 10 years prison time for any crime involving a gun. I am a gun owner and enjoy many shooting sports but I despair at the fact that 30,000 people every year die because of gun violence, suicides, and accidents. That’s a ridiculous rate and highest in the industrial world.

SgtPendleton says:

December 26th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

This is what confuses a lot of people: The conceal and carry law is not an answer to gun violence nor is it a crime prevention law – it’s a clarification of individual rights to carry a gun.

We have great laws that are designed to prevent criminals from getting guns. We also have laws that make it illegal for certain people to possess or own weapons.

I really don’t like throwing statistics around regarding the gun debate, because there’s such a huge volume of them on both sides. I don’t agree that there is a causal relationship between gun availability and suicides, and I don’t believe that taking guns away from people is going to reduce crime or gun violence in any way.

America had a “wild” frontier for 100s of years — guns are a part of our heritage, and they’re not going away.

marka says:

December 26th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

“Here we are some 6 years later, and I haven’t heard of a single incident related to this law. Have you?”

You dont remember the bouncer at Nye’s getting blasted by a drunk conceal and carry permit holder? Granted its a single insident but that was all you were asking for.

SgtPendleton says:

December 26th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Thanks – I didn’t realize that person was a concel and carry permit holder. To be honest, 6 years ago, I was opposed to the change in the permit law — but one incident in 6 years is much better than anyone thought it would be.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 26th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

Hello from South Dakota!

I just got back from touring the State Capital in Pierre and all of the CHRISTMAS decorations filling the place up. I’ve never seen so many decorated CHRISTMAS Trees indoors.

You won’t see anything like this in the liberal People’s Republic of Minnesota!

It sounds like the economy is doing pretty well here in Pierre. There is one Minnesota software company (Eagle River I think?) expanding operations here to escape the oppressive taxation in MN, and they will be adding about 200 jobs in Pierre alone!

adlib says:

December 26th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

In re. a modern day uprising to defend our liberties John E Locano said

“Me and my 80 million fellow armed citizens” would face a police and armed forces many of whom would join us.

I think there’s some conflation of the right to own a rifle or pistol and the citizens right to form a “well-regulated militia.” Such a militia has to have some kind of commander -or godfather if you will- or else it becomes the bad form of anarchy. (Those eighty million armed citizens may all be nuts except for you and me, and I’m not so sure about you.) If no heirarchy is evident you have to rely upon recognition of the common enemy. If that enemy is for e.g. “liberals” how would you distinguish between me and Sarge, who is after all one of your own on Second Amendment issues.

In days of old a gunowner needed no permit to possess a firearm or to drive a vehicle for that matter. The proper uses for a gun would be to hunt game for food, to dispatch a suffering animal, to ward off attack rabid or vicious attack. In non urban areas such uses don’t threaten other citizens as much as in the very areas where fear of violence is highest. There the citizens’ best defense is to sound off or employ other means of neutralizing the threat. In the showdown between cops and bad guys the helpful vigilante is worse than useless. While you’re busy establishing your bona fides to the cop (that you’re on the side of the law) the advantage goes to the bad guy.

Finally anyone that draws a gun on a fellow human being and usurps the power of the law had better be prepared to . maiming or kill a fellow human being. Only a punk would expect to bluff another person into submission, and no matter whether the bullet flies or not there will be consequences to crossing that Rubicon of relationships.

adlib says:

December 26th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

I would be interested in knowing the percentage of murder-suicides …where the perpetrator kills his family and then self, or attacks his workplace or a church…in which the weapon used was registered. I guess it doesn’t really matter to the shooter, does it? All fear dissolves in the release of purgative violence.

Les hints at arming oneself with state of the art weaponry. What would that be? A handgun as accurate as a sniper rifle with the firepower of an assault weapon? That should keep you feeling not only safe but powerful.

Why should the right to conceal and carry stop at the church door? It doesn’t unless specifically prohibited by the congregation. Such preparedness could perhaps have saved a life in one or two notable assaults. It wouldn’t
however have saved a soul.

SgtPendleton says:

December 27th, 2008 at 12:57 am

D2, why don’t you stay there? I would think its lack of diversity and the residents’ general hatred of native Americans would be appealing to you.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 27th, 2008 at 7:40 am

“its lack of diversity”

The liberal concept of multic*lturalism is one of the main reasons for dangerous g*ngs and violent crime in Minneapolis and St. Paul. In the capital city of Pierre South Dakota, violent crime is virually non-exisitent. Sorry if that sounds appealing to me Sarge.

Leftist mayor R.T. Rybak and his illeg*l ali*n “Santuary City” policy is a contributing factor to the explosion of dangerous and violent lat*no g*ngs in Mpls. and surrounding areas for example.

Richard says:

December 27th, 2008 at 10:01 am

If you can’t get enough of the seemingly-never-ending Minnesota Senate battle, here’s a number to feast on: 48. That’s (roughly) the number of votes Democrat Al Franken will lead incumbent Republican Norm Coleman…

This is, what looks like the final number before looking at the improperly rejected absentee ballots. All indications tell us those improperly rejected ballots will trend toward Franken. Will Norm concede? Will he save the citizens of Minnesota further costs and uncertaincy? Will Norm show a little class and go out with a shred of honor? Of course not.

adlib says:

December 27th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

re. Even the anti-Christian bigots will see the light at some point.

CNC Assuming I’m an anti-Christian bigot, which you’re free to believe, you are notably shy on the subject of theology except to deny you ever said you’re a Christian yourself. I don’t believe authentic Christians are well served by your advocacy. But at least you spell bigot correctly.

Les, check with CNC but I believe it’s spelled b-i-g-o-t-r-y.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 27th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

Dick,

Does that count the votes which were improperly counted twice but allowed by liberal democrat ACORN enthusiest Mark Ritchie?

lebowski says:

December 27th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

still dont know how a guy goes from +750 to -48?

I’d better not question the “above board”, “by the books”, “letter of the law” process incorporated by our impartial judges.

Dora says:

December 27th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

wow DTSI-bot, I didn’t know that Ritchie was appointed to the MN Supreme Court. Who knew that Pawlenty, Ventura, and Carlson were ACORN enthusiasts when they appointed the judges who actually ruled against Coleman’s lawsuit.

lebowski, guess you haven’t been following because it’s been clear since the auditor canvass how the numbers have changed.

adlib says:

December 27th, 2008 at 10:57 pm

lebowski says “still dont know how a guy goes from +750 to -48?”

I also wonder how it was ever +750 to begin with. The pollsters had Franken with a slight edge although within the margin of error before election day. It seems the current recount has vindicated those polls, and what MN deems an election close enough to trigger a mandatory recount may yet send the right Senator to Washington.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 28th, 2008 at 12:04 am

It’s no surprise that the lib’s would figure out a way to achieve a phoney comedian Al Franken victory, is it?

SgtPendleton says:

December 28th, 2008 at 8:56 am

“…still dont know how a guy goes from +750 to -48?”

You should change your name from “Lebowski” to “Donny”

D2, you’re absolutely right about Pierre – they know how to keep minorities in their place. I hope you consider moving to South Dakota soon – Minnesota’s doesn’t need people like you.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 28th, 2008 at 9:26 am

“D2, you’re absolutely right about Pierre”

It’s really nice there! Everyone takes care of their homes and keeps them looking nice, there is no violent crime, and businesses are doing well because of low taxes and coming in from areas with oppressive taxation like we have in Minnesota.

The problems we have in Minneapolis are the result of liberal policies.

SgtPendleton says:

December 28th, 2008 at 10:29 am

“Everyone takes care of their homes and keeps them looking nice, there is no violent crime, and businesses are doing well”

…sounds like my multi-cultural neighborhood here in the city.

By the way, I’m still waiting for you to explain the Ritchie-ACORN-Soros connection.

adlib says:

December 28th, 2008 at 10:32 am

Sarge said …. D2, you’re absolutely right about Pierre – they know how to keep minorities in their place. I hope you consider moving to South Dakota soon – Minnesota’s doesn’t need people like you.

Apparently The Pierre newpaper does not have blogs. Otherwise D2, or clone thereof, would be living in both metro areas at the same time.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 28th, 2008 at 10:38 am

“D2, you’re absolutely right about Pierre – they know how to keep minorities in their place.”

They have people from places like India living there and they fit in quite well. What are you talking about Sarge!

Richard says:

December 28th, 2008 at 10:44 am

Ritchie received an endorsement from ACORN. That’s it and Soros donated to Ritchie’s campaign. That’s it. But for those who lack judgement, common sense, greater then a third grade intellect, you know, people like Bigot, those tenuous connections are enough to smear and slime. You’ve never hear any detailed list of impropriety or wrongdoing from these empty headed jackoffs because they might actually find out that their accusations are false. That would twist the universe all to pieces. So good luck with asking the Bigot for anything but I’m guessing he’s too busy trying to keep his mop and bucket job at his local diner.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 28th, 2008 at 10:51 am

“Ritchie received an endorsement from the corrupt democrat voter fraud group ACORN. That’s it and Soci@list Soros donated to Ritchie’s campaign.”

Thanks Dick!

Sarge,
Please explain why the U.S. cities with the highest crime rates have all be under liberal democrat control for decades?

lebowski says:

December 28th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

D2SI is right, liberal policies, that started in the 60′s, have caused a lot of problems…..and have impacted African American hardest.

lib policies remind me of planes, trains and automobiles, “your going the wrong way.”

and acorn and soros contributing to richie campaign? no compromise/conflict there. seems pretty legit to me. i read a political commentary article about it the other day in the startrib……..yeah, right.

Cash N. Carey says:

December 28th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas!

adlib – you can always bring facts to an argument but that assumes you base your arguments on facts. If you make a claim back it up, otherwise you might as well call yourself Dora.

SgtPendleton says:

December 28th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

D2, I didn’t say anything about who runs cities — just that I’ve never been to a more racist state than South Dakota — except maybe North Dakota…and I’ve been all over the South.

Actually, we’d call him a D2, CNC. Merry Chirstmas to you too.

Donny, you’re like a child who wanders into the room…

adlib says:

December 28th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

“Ritchie received an endorsement from the corrupt democrat voter fraud group ACORN. That’s it and Soci@list Soros donated to Ritchie’s campaign

I’d call it a type of fraud when gullible citizens are told by red state Repubs that if they want to avoid the crowds on election day they could vote on November 4th, or when mailings were sent to addresses of registered voters in attempts to use the returned mailings for challenging purpurses at polls in red states on election day.

These rumors of attempted voter suppression are anecdotal, but they’re as credible to me as the frequent and irresponsible libels against Ritchie seen in the BQ blog, accusing him of fraud or communsism.

Richard says:

December 28th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

Bigot, it would be far more interesting if you were as interested in voter fraud and election fixing back in 2000 in Florida and in 2004 in Ohio. The process in Minnesota has been a model of how you settle close elections. Thank God we have paper ballots. Every vote has been counted. The Supreme Court found no evidence of duplicate counts unanimously. You cannot claim liberal fixing on this one.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 28th, 2008 at 7:30 pm

Sarge,
The people of South Dakota and Pierre especially are some of the nicest and most accepting people you would ever want to meet. You are really showing your liberal ignorance by calling these people racists.

Richard says:

December 28th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

Bigot, what you really mean to say is that the white people in SD are some of the nicest white people and as long as there’s only white people in the room they are very accepting.

SgtPendleton says:

December 28th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

D2, I’ve experienced both Dakotas and I stand by my remark…more racist than Mississippi or Alabama.

Yes, in Pierre, they’re nice and accepting of all kinds of minorities….Germans, Norweigians, Irish, Dutch, even Italians. Why they haven’t lynched any Native Americans in over 15 years!

dare2sayit.com says:

December 29th, 2008 at 4:45 am

Sarge and Dick,

You guys are full of liberal crap!

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 8:55 am

I am not casting aspersions on the character of the people of SD or ND. I’m sure they are as kind and generous as any but I know from experience that bigots like to be around bigots so I’m guessing, Bigot, you were never around any people of color. You were never around any people that weren’t born here.

SgtPendleton says:

December 29th, 2008 at 10:57 am

Look who’s calling the kettle black! LOL D2 says we’re full of liberal crap, Richard.

D2, I’d like to pay for your one-way bus ticket out of this state – is there a PO Box I could send a check to?

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 11:47 am

Dingbat.. The stats came from the CDC. Same source your buddy used. Go ahead, knock it now..

Adlib.. Read the Heller decision before you make a bigger fool of yourself concerning the 2nd amendment, especially the part about the regulation of “militia”, and the fact that the right to bear arms predates the constitution, which only states the right “shall not be infringed” It doesn’t create the right.

Still, no one want me to make them a sign.. I wonder why. Concealed storage must work well, regardless of the fact the occupant owns arms or not.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 11:49 am

but I know from experience that bigots like to be around bigots

I would agree that Richard would be an expert on biggots then.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It seems pretty clear. In the context of maintaining a well regulated Militia gun rights are not to be infringed upon. But what about if my cross-eyed neighbor wants to own and fire off his rocket propelled grenade launcher? I’m thinking I would like some boundary here.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Read the Heller decision, bigot, I’m not going to be able to quell the fears you base on your stereotypes and prejudgement.

How about that sign,, You want it or not??

Dora says:

December 29th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

yeah, Les, I’m sure the guy who shot the father in the movie theatre because his kids were talking agrees with you.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

The five states with the highest per capita gun death rates — Louisiana, Alaska, Montana, Tennessee and Alabama — had a per capita gun death rate far exceeding the national per capita gun death rate of 10.32 per 100,000.

The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths — murders, suicides and accidents — among the world’s 36 richest nations, a government study found.
The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.

Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world’s 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31

Recognizing you have a problem is the first step toward a solution. Les, gun violence in the US is a problem whether or not you choose to see that.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

Agree with me about what? Try to be coherent, Dora.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Add these figures in Richard.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/worldview/2008/12/uk-knife-crime.html

recognizing the CORRECT cause of the problem is the first step towards a solution.

I dont know about you, but I go down to the gun cabinet and cut the legs of all my rifles every night so they wont sneak out and shoot someone. They grow back, ya know.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

As I posted earlier on this thread:

we can reduce gun violence by aggressively removing guns from the hands of criminals. Aggressively pursuing those that illegally purchase and sell guns. I’m not a big fan of mandatory sentencing but automatically tacking on 10 years prison time for any crime involving a gun.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

Can we agree on those steps, Les, or are you going to start advocating for the rights of criminals to own firearms?

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Yes,, you beat me to it..

I can and do agree with that position concerning firearms.

Some more info for ya, which actually re-enforces what we agree on.

From the NYC Academy of medicine:
NYC Firearm Deaths Show Complex Link to Drug Use and Race
Fewer gun-related deaths in past decade, but minorities still hit hardest

NEW YORK CITY, April 12 – More than half of those killed by firearms in New York City between 1990 and 1998 tested positive for drugs, but shooting deaths overall declined as the decade drew to a close, according to a new study to be released Tuesday in the Journal of Urban Health, published by The New York Academy of Medicine. Despite the decline, African-Americans and Latinos remained three times more likely than whites to be victims of shooting violence.

Of the 11,133 total firearm-related deaths in the city in that period, 55.3 percent of the victims tested positive for cocaine, marijuana, opiates (i.e., heroin) and/or alcohol, according to researchers, who combed eight years of records from the city’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner of New York.

My point is the 50% drug/alcohol use, not race, before you call me a bigot. And keep in mind NYC has very strict gun registration laws.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

What’s getting in the way here is a knee-jerk response to reasonable, responsible actions to try and stem the violence. Aggressive law enforcement coupled with reasonable registration laws could very quickly reduce the number of illegal arms and reduce the number of criminal with guns.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

BTW,, In your stats on the states, You neglected to mention the rate in Washington DC, Home of the most stringent gun control law in the land.. 31.2 per 100K.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

There is no such thing as reasonable registration laws. They’re just as acceptable as ‘reasonable poll taxes’

You forget that DC and NYC have “unreasonalbe” registration laws, yet very high gun violence rates.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

There is no such thing as reasonable registration laws.

Knee jerk response.

You forget that DC and NYC have “unreasonalbe” registration laws, yet very high gun violence rates.

How’s neighboring Virginia’s registration laws? Maryland? Here’s where aggressive law enforcement kicks in. 10 years in jail, no questions asked, no parole, no choice. You get caught with an illegal gun in New York or DC you get sent to jail for 10 years. You commit a crime with a gun, 10 years, no parole, gets added to your sentence. How does registration infringe on my rights?

Dora says:

December 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

Kinda cranky, eh les? Agree with your stand on conceal carry.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

BTW, NYC gun death rate was 17.395 per 100K, Higher than any state’s rate.

SgtPendleton says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

“What’s getting in the way here is a knee-jerk response to reasonable, responsible actions to try and stem the violence. ”

Banning weapons is a knee-jerk response.

“You forget that DC and NYC have “unreasonalbe” registration laws, yet very high gun violence rates.”

Richard – this is a great point. It demostrates that gun bans don’t work.

If someone can figure out a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals without infringing on folks’ right to own firearms, I’m all for it. I’m also fine with background checks, as I’m sure Les is – as long as it’s not onerous.

Right now — correct me if I’m wrong — registration is an option, not a law, correct?

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

Not a bit, just looking for clarity from the peanut gallery. Are you saying that shooting was done by someone with a CCW permit? You provide no links, I’ve seen no story about a shooting in a theater, and there is no current evidence the person was elligible for CCW, making, as usual, your comment moot.

By the way, you want a sign or not?

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

Banning weapons is a knee-jerk response.

Find that proposal, anywhere on this thread.

Falsely stating one advocates banning weapons when one hasn’t.

Knee jerk response.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Ah yes,, “get caught with an illegal gun in DC”….Except, the law making it illegal is unconstitutional, see Heller again.

An illegal gun would be one in the possesion of a convicted felon. Guns in themselves cannot be ‘illegal’ any more than an automobile can be drunk. And before you go there, driving is a priviledge, not a right.

As for neighboring states laws, I refer you to the poll tax statement.

As Sarge said, figure out how to keep guns out of criminals hands rather than making criminals out of people who own firearms.

A comprehensive registration list, under current federal law is illegal. That why the cops are always getting in hot water over holding lists of firearms checks too long after the purchase.

Instant background checks are run on every new firearms purchase. If there are holes in a states datbase, work on keeping the database correct,rather than blaming the firearm.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

And yes, a 10 year or more year premium for commiting a felony with a firearm is just dandy with me.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

From Heller:

he Second Amendment is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose…

the full scope of the right, “should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

The last section is important. Especially the conditions and qualifications clause. The justices were willing to say an outright ban on handguns is extra-constitutional but laws regulating and administrating which firearms and who may own firearms is not outside the constitutional intent.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

As Sarge said, figure out how to keep guns out of criminals hands rather than making criminals out of people who own firearms.

Again, find where that’s been proposed.

That falls into the category of meaningless hyperbole.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

Hah,, he finally read it. Yes, it’s not a perfect decision. And your making a stretch when you add “which firearms” and “who” beyond the scope of the previous paragraph, which specifies felons and mentally ill.

I expected you to go for the dissenting comments……

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

I didnt say anyone but Sarge said it, I said we should do that. No need to be so defensive.

However, DC and NYC laws make criminals out of gun owners by outlawing the mere possession of the firearm, regardless of the status of the owner. Chicago does the same, and will be among the next in court over it.

There, I said it now.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Let’s put it a little differently..

What do you have against a law abiding citizen exercising his or her second amendment rights, either in the home or on the street?

Keep in mind hunting or concealed carry under the influence is already illegal.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

Again from Heller:

or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

Qualifications like age, legal status, medical status.

Conditions like 10 day waiting period or approved training program certificate.

Weapon type must also be considered. A ban on fully automatic weapons seems like a reasonable measure to take unless you think terrorists having easy access to fully automatic assault rifles is a good idea.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

In other words, pretty much the current state of federal laws concerning firearms.

I’m certiain you added the waiting period statement, though. I’ll admit it’s been a couple months since I read it, but I dont recall that being singled out.

Why is a fully automatic weapon in the hands of a law abiding citizen a threat to you? You think ‘terrorists” as you put it are going to leave their Uzi’s and AK’s at home when the commit their next act of terror?

the above is an extreme postion, but illistrates the problem with the word ‘reasonable’ when it comes to this subject.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

I expected you to go for the dissenting comments……

No, those comments were taken from the majority opinion. From the minority dissent:

The Stevens dissent seems to rest on four main points of disagreement: that the Founders would have made the individual right aspect of the Second Amendment express if that was what was intended; that the “militia” preamble and exact phrase “to keep and bear arms” demands the conclusion that the Second Amendment touches on state militia service only.

The dissent concludes, “The Court would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons…. I could not possibly conclude that the Framers made such a choice.”

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

Well, I’m outta here.

BTW,, you do realize you just advocated the banning of an entire class of weapons, correct??? Maybe Sarge’s earlier comment wasnt such a knee jerk.

Les says:

December 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

I know that,, What I said was I expected you to go for the rediculous notions that were outlined in the dissents.. And you just did. Off to pick up the wife now….

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

banning of an entire class of weapons, correct

That’s quite a stretch to go from “a class” of weapon to claim a ban on all guns. It’s that sort of unhinged knee jerk response that’s keeping anything from getting done. Rocket propelled grenade launchers are a class of weapon along with land mines and bazookas. Where do you draw the line?

dare2sayit.com says:

December 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

Dick,

Washington D.C. has had the strictest gun control laws in the country, but is also about the most dangeroes with it’s extremely high murder rate. What’s up with that?

EttenBoom says:

December 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

“A ban on fully automatic weapons seems like a reasonable measure to take unless you think terrorists having easy access to fully automatic assault rifles is a good idea.”

While it is possible they might be passing around one AK strictly for photo ops, I’m pretty sure the terrorists already have a few fully auto weapons. That is, of course, in spite of the law.

EttenBoom says:

December 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

“You get caught with an illegal gun in New York or DC you get sent to jail for 10 years. You commit a crime with a gun, 10 years, no parole, gets added to your sentence. How does registration infringe on my rights?”

Are you kidding?

Perhaps a good start would be to enforce those laws, which I can assure you does not happen in New York.

You should also realize that gun permits in NYC are handed out as political favors. As long as you meet the basic requirements of posessing wealth and influence, you’ll have no problem getting a gun permit.
If you’re the bodega owner that’s been robbed four times in four months, you’ll have an easier time getting one on the street.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

Reducing the number of guns in circulation will lower crime rates and gun violence. Lawful ownership of guns has never been the problem until those guns get resold to individuals whom have not been properly checked out or if those guns get stolen. Illegal trade in firearms must be aggressively prosecuted. Gun and knife shows are often the criminals preferred source for weapons.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 29th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

Richard says:

December 29th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

Where in this thread has anyone proposed outlawing guns? No where. Bigot, not only are you a bigot but you’re an idiot.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 29th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

“Where in this thread has anyone proposed outlawing guns?”

I think liberals on this blog are smart enough not to openly admit that, but liberals in general would LOVE to ban firearms, even ones used for hunting (PETA ya know).

adlib says:

December 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

Do unto others before they do unto you right guys? I’m sure that law abiding gun owners are the only ones preventing our national average of gun fatalities from being double what it is, given the bloodthirsty nature of criminals and students in this country. Without the updated 2nd Amendment rulings we’d have such a crime wave in Gotham that we’d have to rely on Batman to save us from these jokers.

Another statistic I’d be interested in learning is how many first offenses were also last offenses…I mean someone just got on the passive law- abiding citizens last nerve or hurt his/her feelings too much. As the old Jon Cale lyric goes “Once you begin to think like a gun/Days of the Year are already gone…”

Les, I’ll pass on that Gun Free Zone sign. I reserve the right to pass judgement on sinners myself, and I don’t want that power to be too hard to obtain. With or without a permit, what one does with a gun is a matter of personal choice.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 29th, 2008 at 6:49 pm

The main reason there were so many casualties in the Mubai India massacre by Pakistani Muslims was because the security people involved weren’t armed. This would never happen in Israel where it seemed to me like about 1/4 of the population was armed. This is necessary with all the Islamist fanatics there just dying to kill Israeli’s.

Dora says:

December 29th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

“but liberals in general would LOVE to ban firearms, even ones used for hunting (PETA ya know)”.

It’s stupid statements like that one that prevent any kind of rational discussion.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 29th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

“It’s stupid statements like that one that prevent any kind of rational discussion.”

The truth hurts, eh Dora? Ouch!

SgtPendleton says:

December 29th, 2008 at 7:39 pm

Wow – look how civilized this discussion was before D2SI-bot interjected himself.

adlib says:

December 29th, 2008 at 9:52 pm

” Washington D.C. has had the strictest gun control laws in the country, but is also about the most dangerous with it’s extremely high murder rate. What’s up with that? ” D2 asks.

Well aren’t the laws because DC is potentially a target rich environment for political assasination?

Nonetheless the murders which occur are usually not of powerful figures but the more ordinary sort of victims, just more of them. The perpetrators of these homicides are usually more apolitical and, so far at least, impervious to incitement by such blogs as this.

adlib says:

December 29th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Now the recount goes into final phase where both campaigns challenge which absentee ballots were rightfully or wrongfully disqualified. Unless one team has found a way to know what’s inside each envelope the race seems to be in the hands of clairvoyants and handwriting analysts, no?

SgtPendleton says:

December 30th, 2008 at 1:47 am

Sounds like it adlib. I’m just glad to be talking about something other than guns.

Yes, Franken’s got 40-whatever votes, and no one knows what’s inside those envelopes except Carnac.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 30th, 2008 at 4:09 am

“Well aren’t the laws because DC is potentially a target rich environment for political assasination?”

It doesn’t matter. When you take away a persons right to protect himself, violent crime increases.

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 8:02 am

I see our BQ gun nut has lead you all on a merry chase for the past days—kudos to richard for contending with him and thrashing his arguments.

The idea that there’s “Public Safety through Guns” ™ is Orwellian, and appeals to those whose minds are particularly poisoned and filled with (hopefully subconscious) desires for violence. It’s depressing that our country has been filled with such people via the NRA and the Conservative Noise Machine, and there’s not much that can be done about it now, it’s merely another sign and symptom of our doom and decline as a society, culture and nation. The rest of the world (except perhaps Islamic terrorists) see our Gun Love and celebration as deeply sick, perverted and irrational. They are right.

It seems to me (anecdotally) that gun rage and mayhem is increasing as the economy melts down. This is logical and hopefully we’ll start seeing some real numbers, not that anything can be done about it.

Most gun nuts reside in the deep suburbs and dream of moving to some rural hideaway—they see danger everywhere and only feel safe caressing their beloved firearm. When they melt down psychologically (as they frequesntly do), they become a great danger to anyone whom they ever met, as the latest CA massacre shows.

Of course the actual danger is from the sea of handguns which the gun lovers fanatical political actions crazily enable, but that’s beyond them. The Gun Nut is the violent criminal’s best friend in Amerca.

If one actually reads the Heller decision and the dissents, it is crystal clear that the decision was wrongly decided, results oriented and simply irrational. Unfortunately the Court now has 4 right wing conservative extremists masquerading as “judges”, who merely rule exactly how a conservative activist WISHES the law to be. Heller is a disgrace to constitutional law and analytical reasoning.

That’s why Obama’s victory was so crucial—it saved the Supreme Court from a complete takeover by right wing nut jobs. That’s a great relief to thinking, rational and informed people, although there will still be numerous appallingly wrong decisions like Heller to come, thanks to the conservative activists Bushco appointed.

And why it’s crucial to keep embittered faux-conservative converts like Hollow Norm out of the senate. We don’t need this failed loser (an incumbent senator rejected by almost 60% of the voters!) casting votes on the Obama appointments. Or anything for that matter.

It will be great to have a new person with energy and actual ideas representing us, and not the Norm Coleman vote calculating machine. Oy, what a putz…..

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 8:31 am

partial brain is delusional again.. Must be his brain is being deprived of diesel fumes while the buses are on the holiday schedules. Hail Urbana!!!

gun rage and mayhem is increasing… Wrong.. Check it out, released last night, down 13 percent.

When they melt down psychologically (as they frequesntly do), they become a great danger to anyone whom they ever met, as the latest CA massacre shows.

You are a real idiot.. you may consider the NYC medical study posted above. Your CA example is like saying all Dem govenors are crooks. As the latest IL debacle shows….

The Gun Nut is the violent criminal’s best friend in Amerca.

Really? Did I offer you a sign for your door yet? in your case, I’ll even hand it up, wouldn’t want you to hurt yourself with a hammer, that other weapon of destruction..

Heller wrongly decided.. Enough said, you truly need a dose of diesel fumes.

Your politics smell like diesel fumes, which is not surprising….

Note how civil the discussion was before partial brain injected his bigotted streotypical unsupported opinion.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 8:34 am

Say,, what happened to Frankenstiens “count every vote” cry… Seems he’s against counting about 700 now. Wonder Why?

Ritchie is begining to show his true colors, and it’s begining to look like his middle name is ‘Blogo’

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 9:31 am

les, provide a link to that story please

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am

And the other one…

Deputy Secretary of State Jim Gelbmann ended late Monday afternoon, the campaigns remained far apart. Campaign lawyers held dueling news conferences, accusing the other side of trying to prevent an agreement. And even Gelbmann, who at one point asked lawyers from both campaigns to remain “civil,” said a late proposal from Coleman — to review 654 more votes atop the 1,346 absentee ballots that local officials had already agreed were mistakenly rejected — threatened to derail the process.

“You’re giving the local officials very little time,” said Gelbmann, who said the Coleman request presented a “very daunting task.”

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/36833124.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUxWoW_oD:EaDUiacyKUU

KSTP reported last night in their 10PM broadcast that the SOS had ruled that Coleman had “missed the deadline”. I cant find written confirmation of that this morning.

SgtPendleton says:

December 30th, 2008 at 10:19 am

Parthian, guns aren’t going away. They are a part of our cultural identity — whether you think that’s a bad thing or not.

Up until 70-some odd years ago, guns were a necessary and useful tool in most parts of the US. There are plenty of places in which they still are. As a country, we chose to make gun ownership legal, and frankly there’s no turning back.

The only true gun control law that makes sense is to ban all firearms and confiscate them. Not only do most people disagree with that, it’s a fantasy because it would never work — you’re never going to get rid of all the guns we have. Banning this type or that type of gun (not including full auto or machine guns) means nothing to criminals.

So whether you like it or not, it makes sense to keep the gun laws where they are today.
————

Les, Coleman’s cherry picking precints — the strategy is grab a bunch of properly rejected ballots from GOP districts, and ask them to be reviewed at the last second — when rejected, you can claim the other side doesn’t want them all counted….or that the process was wrong (basically your own actions are creating the basis for additional lawsuits).

There are two things going on here: One is the actual count, the other is the spin battle in the media. The goal is to permanently question the legitimacy of whoever eventually gets in. Since it became obvious that Coleman would lose the actual count, his spin machine has been working overtime.

It’s like the “double counted ballots” that went in front of the Supreme Court. Coleman’s logic is since there’s no photocopy, they were counted twice. That’s like saying since I don’t see my dog, he was hit by a car and killed — a huge leap. Coleman’s toast, and he’s known it for weeks. This is all just lawyering to punish the victor.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 10:42 am

And I supposed he burned the 133 (or is it 132, they cant decide) ballots in dinkytown…

The point remains the “We dont care about timelines” statement Ritchie made seems to be changing now that he’s managed to get Franken ahead.

BTW,, what’s your spin on the refusal to reconsider Coleman challenges that were rejected by the canvassing board while Franken challenges of the same type were accepted??

bottom line
133 lost
150 counted twice
600 + not considered (BTW,, who’s cherrypicking counties??)

Equals “we counted them all” Not hardly. it equals we counted every dem ballot we could, regardless of their legitimacy.

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 10:55 am

to review 654 more votes atop the 1,346 absentee ballots that local officials had already agreed were mistakenly rejected

1346 that local officials had already agreed upon,,

Franken’s name doesn’t show up anywhere in there. This is another example of Coleman’s penchant for frivolous lawsuits. My guess is he’s trying to delay the process so that it ends up in the Senate. As far as the 133 lost ballots, the bi-partisan canvasing board ruled on using the machine count. Of the 150 counted twice, the state Supreme court ruled there was no evidence of this. If Coleman can find evidence, then he can bring another suit but in any event, Franken’s or Ritchie’s names don’t show up anywhere near the decisions. Coleman is losing and this is his desperate attempt to hold onto the seat he stole from Wellstone.

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 10:57 am

The (Reality) Bottom Line:

133 lost and (properly) included according to existing precedent;

150 (utterly hypothetical and unproven) counted twice;

600+ (absentees) not considered (because improperly submitted).

Les’s intellectual dishonesty: incalcuable.

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:01 am

Over the weekend, the Franken campaign agreed to review only the 1,346 absentee ballots that local election officials had acknowledged were mistakenly rejected. Franken campaign officials said they had spent most of the weekend, without success, trying to get the Coleman campaign to join them.

Franken agreed to the process. Coleman balked and is trying to game the process. Give it up Les. Coleman’s behavior is indefensible.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:04 am

While the partial brain is collecting his diesel fumes to support his insanity, he can read this Xmas story from a land of strict gun control.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7804470.stm

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:10 am

Wingnuts cannot objectively apply abstract principles and rules, richard, they can only accept results-oriented, endlessly mutable “criteria”. So nothing their “team” does is indefensible, since it’s done solely to “win” the “game”.

Thus their delirious happiness with the stolen 2000 election and with whatever election shenanigans their criminal party undertakes. Party over Country, Party Over Democracy ™, always and forever.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:11 am

LOL,, you guys really think this Franken grab is legit..

Ok, If you say so.. Count em all,,,,,RIIIIIIGHT. No Timetable… RIIIIIIGHT… Franken go to court. Legit, Coleman go to Court, bogus. RIIIIGHT.

Your (and his) hypocracy is mindboggleing, and is what is really indefensible.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:13 am

Thus their delirious happiness with the stolen 2000

In which Gore wasn’t allowed his cherrypicked recount of only certian counties.. Sound familiar???

You must be getting the CO count up there, try a few more litres of diesel fumes.

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:15 am

You must have a nice gun nut site that collects pro-gun “stories” for you, Les.

Is it part of the annual NRA Gold Member package?

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:19 am

You’re too stupid (and uninterested) to even care what the FL supreme court actually ruled, Les (it didn’t agree with Gore’s cherry pick). Read a book sometime, something other than your approved conserva-sites.

By the way, “RIIIGHT” isn’t actually an argument. At least among informed people….

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:23 am

Seems to work for you and Dora… but it’s an intellectual argument from you, I’m sure.

What the court in FL ruled doesn’t change what Gore attempted.

Speaking of reading, did you read you Christmas carol from the BBC I posted for ya?

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:26 am

You must have a nice gun nut site that collects pro-gun “stories” for you, Les.

Ya,, it’s from the government run media of that bastion of pro-gunners, the BBC. Of course, if you actually read something factual, you’d already have seen that.

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:26 am

Les, Parthian isn’t the one whoofing diesel fumes. I’m guessing you’re the one with your lips on the F350 tailpipe. Using a massacre in Uganda to argue against gun control is analogous to arguing the decline of pirates on the world’s ocean is responsible for the rise in CO2 levels. Violence in Africa is terrible and is going to be a huge problem the world will have to deal with soon, but, the root causes are more tied to third world poverty then not enough guns. In fact, working toward a world wide moratorium on the sale of small arms to third world nations would go a long way to solving the problem. In fact working toward the world wide de-militarization of the worlds economy would do more to eliminate third world poverty, hunger, and overpopulation then anything else.

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:35 am

Les, what part of, “1346 that local officials had already agreed upon” don’t you understand? How does Coleman’s attempt to derail the process have any merit?

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:37 am

What part of ‘count them all” and “no timetable’ dont you understand?

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:41 am

Using a massacre in Uganda to argue against gun control is analogous to arguing the decline of pirates on the world’s ocean is responsible for the rise in CO2 levels.

I suppose you think the above actually makes some kind of sense. I guess it would to you.

If not Uganda, look to your history books about Stalin’s purges and Hitler’s “final solution”

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:44 am

How does Coleman’s attempt to derail the process have any merit?

Note that in your mind, Coleman taking action is ‘derailing’ What was franken’s actions when he went to court then?

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:46 am

Les, you’re not being honest. “Count them all” means what? Count all the ballots including the correctly rejected absentee ballots? Is that what you mean? 1346 agreed upon incorrectly rejected absentee ballots will be counted. Franken had nothing to do with those local officials agreeing upon those ballots but somehow, perhaps some Jedi mind trick, it’s the Franken campaign that’s at fault. Les, I understand how tenuous your position is and that can make a person say things that would lead people to conclude that someone holding those positions is completely deranged. Give it up, Norm is a fraud and without scruples.

Dora says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:47 am

Les sounds as desperate as the Coleman campaign. Franken said to count the ones that the election officials said were improperly rejected. Coleman didn’t agree to that, attacks the election officials at the state and local level as being biased toward Franken, and then wants to include others that the local election officials said were properly rejected but only from precints that favored him although he calls it “coincidence”. And as for a timetable, the MN Supreme Court agreed to change their timetable from Dec 30 to Jan 4 because the two campaigns asked for the change.

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 11:50 am

More guns as a solution for gun violence is the same kind of thinking that has led to war for peace and f*cking for virginity.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

Not honest is to claim Coleman isnt “following the process” when the process your referring to is a Franken driven change to the states process of local election officials judging the merit of absentee ballots.

You see, in your mind, Franken’s failure to follow the process is OK, but Coleman’s isn’t. Makes no sense and is hypocritical.

“1346 agreed upon” by local officials. yet the court ruling say local officials and the campaigns.. So the “agreed upon” label is at best misleading.

You may recall these local officials agreed the ballots should have been rejected originally……

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

So let me try and understand your position. Incorrectly rejected absentee ballots should not be counted. Is that your position?

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

You are thick headed.

No, all incorrectly rejected absentee ballots should be considered, including Coleman’s 600+, and if I had my own way, those in the pile labeled “not registered, but appears a registration may be inside” would be opened to determine if the registration is inside, and if so, counted.

The rub comes when you claim Coleman is not playing ball when he takes the same actions Franken has, which you support.

BTW,, you keep asking me about Franken. My beef is with Ritchie’s “no timeline” and “count every vote” statement.

In any case, I’m done with this issue. You Dems dont want all votes counted, only those you feel support the foul mouthed failed comedian. As I said a week or so ago, the irony is going to be when Franken looses due to those absentee ballots.

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

Coleman’s 600+ were not in the agreed upon pile of incorrectly rejected ballots. Coleman is asking local officials to go back and re-review. How many times is he going to stunts like this? It’s over and Franken is going to win. Get over it. Minnesota will finally have two Senators we can be proud of. If you have knowledge of specific wrongdoing or illegality in this process, you should notify the State Attorney General.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

What,, Your predicting Coleman will win.

Who could be proud of Franken?? you gotta be kidding MFer (to use a Franken favorite). And please quit putting words in my mouth. What’s this drivel about wrongdoing?

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

Les, if you’re proud of Colemans covering for war profiteers and the loss of US servicemen and womens lives as a result then good for you. Me, I’d like a Senator who won’t be a lapdog for a failed and criminal administration.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

All your last post proved is your good at drinking koolaid, Now, care to clarify that wrongdoing statement?

Dora says:

December 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

les said: “…the process your referring to is a Franken driven change to the states process of local election officials judging the merit of absentee ballots.”

That’s just a bizarre statement. The local election officials came up with the list of improperly rejected ballots that Franken’s campaign said they’d accept. Coleman’s campaign didn’t and then attacks the local and state election officials as being biased.

The “Franken driven change” was to request that absentees ballots that were improperly rejected be counted. Both the Canvassing Board and the MN Supreme Court agreed. Coleman’s position has always been not to count them.

And Coleman’s 600 comes from cherrypicking ballots that were judged to be correctly rejected by local election officials.

Les says:

December 30th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Ok Dora,, We’ll put it this way.

Nov 2008: Franken says local officials judgement not good. SC agrees. Dumbocrats cheer ‘count em all’ Gopers, for the most part agree.

Dec 2008: Coleman says local officials judgement not good. SC not asked yet. Dumbocrats cry foul. Gooper say what happened to “count em all”

What’s bizarre is y’alls continued objecting to considering the ballots Coleman beleives improperly rejected, while at the same time supporting Frankens initial claim of the same thing. If local official were wrong on the 4th of Novemeber, your saying they are now infallible in December?

Franken forced this reconsideration the first time, and now he’s against it. It’s no wonder the process has now been halted. We will soon see what Ritchie does now.

FWIW,, Coleman being against counting them was wrong. But you cant use that as a reason not to consider ballots that may be valid. The rules were changed by frankens suit, not Coleman.

John E Iacono says:

December 30th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

The decisions made in the past few days have convinced me.

Until the lawsuits are all resolved, I will not accept the initial results from this “recount” which has seen so many games played with what will be counted. And if the judicial process is as arbitrary as it has been, I may not accept it then.

Absentee ballots rejected, accepted, rejected — all with the suggestion that the probable outcomes from them would change the picture.

Missing ballots “counted”.

Duplicate ballots very likely already run through the machine counted again.

The laws we have are good. The people we have implementing them are just too human.

Dora says:

December 30th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

No Les.

Franken said that not all rejected absentees were properly rejected, sort them, and count the ones improperly rejected.

Coleman said don’t count any of them.

Canvassing board said sort them and count them.

Coleman files suit.

MN SC said sort them and count them.

Franken accepts the sort by the local election officials.

Coleman says local and state election officials biased, doesn’t accept those improperly rejected and wants to include some from Coleman selected precincts that were properly rejected.

Big difference.

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Les can’t understand the difference between local election officials not being able to identify ANY statutory reason why an absentee ballot was rejected, and when officials (and any observer) can clearly identify the precise statutory reason why it was rejected.

Yup, no valid difference between the two, it’s just the exact same “local officials judgment”. And we’re the hypocrites, of course.

Franken asked that ALL of the first group be counted and the Canvassing Board and Supreme Court (sort of) agreed; now Coleman is “agreeing” that (some of) the second group (from selected Red counties) be counted. Seems fair…..RIIGHT.

Further, I’m not aware of any MN supreme court ruling on the recount in Nov 2008, so that’s a mystery reference.

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Oh, oh, John I isn’t going to “accept” the results of the election, will the state survive?

Your rendition of the “facts” has only a passing acquaintence with reality, John, so it’s no wonder you’re distressed.

Exactly where do you get your information from? And perhaps you’ll explain precisely what you find “arbitrary” in the judicial process (so far) as opposed to sloganeering.

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

Oops, make that “results of the recount”…

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

It’s a good thing these folks weren’t on the wrong side of Gore v Bush back in 2000 where there were honest to God election irregularities to deal with. Heads would’ve exploded. The mileage they’ve gotten out of Coleman’s non-issues and frivolous lawsuit penchant would’ve fueled their faux outrage for years. One last thing.

God bless President Obama
God bless Senator Franken

dare2sayit.com says:

December 30th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

“More guns as a solution for gun violence is the same kind of thinking that has led to war for peace and f*cking for virginity.”

Dick,
More guns in the hands of RESPONSIBLE people is a deterant to crime. The Muslim terrorists in the India massacre couldn’t have killed nearly as many innocent people if a few responsible Indians would have been armed.

Richard says:

December 30th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

Try Bigot, I know you can do it. Say something more stupid, more asinine. Fess up, really, are you nine, maybe ten years old? With every post you prove to the world what a moron you are and how utterly devoid of critical thinking capabilities a conservative can be. Post on, Bigot, post on.

parthian says:

December 30th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

The sad truth is that 2D is a 50 year old male, but with the mind of a (below average) child.

In short, a typical “conservative”.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 30th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

“Try Bigot”

Dick, it’s interesting liberals always resort to playing the race card when they are confused with facts.

Partisan,

If you aren’t a liberal by the time you are 20, you have no heart.
If you aren’t a conservative by the time you reach 30 you have no brain.

Maybe once you reach 30 you will come to your senses Partisan, unless you are hopelessly infected with liberalism (more like Communism in your case).

SgtPendleton says:

December 30th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

Les — Coleman is calling 150 missing photocopies as “counted twice” — doesn’t that seem intellectually dishonest to you? At some point, you need to accept the process whether you agree with the results or not.

This is about lawyers. Coleman’s lawyers played out their hand too soon, and now they’re playing games with last-minute submissions and “counted twice” ballots. Franken would be doing the same if it looked like he wasn’t going to win.

D2, go fcuk yourself.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 30th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

“liberals always resort to playing the race card when they are confused with facts.”

That and profanity.

SgtPendleton says:

December 30th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

By the way, my mom (the lifelong Dem) gave me the book, “The Audacity of Hope” in my stocking this year.

Being the cynic that I am, the last thing I wanted to do was read some politician’s book about why it’s so important that he run for office…blah blah blah…

Well, I read the first few pages, and I gotta admit – it’s well put together and interesting. I don’t agree with 100% of what he’s saying, but he speculates that the reason senators got along much better 30 and 40 years ago is because they were almost all veterans of WWII — they had a common bond and mutual respect.

He also points out that a lot of the problems we have today are because “the base” is always being stoked — that is, they’re being taken advantage of by people who make money off acrimony (e.g. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity — anyone have an example from the other side?).

I’m still reading it, and I gotta tell you, I think everyone should read it whether you disagree with the guy or not.

SgtPendleton says:

December 30th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

D2, there is nothing more profane than your endorsement of the view that an entire ethnic group are zoo animals.

But, assuming for the moment that you could possibly be a human being, I really pity you – you’ve fallen for every base argument the right has put out there — you’re a sucker who argues for people who would take advantage of you.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 30th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

“D2, there is nothing more profane than your endorsement of the view that an entire ethnic group are zoo animals.”

More liberal lies from the left. I never said that Sarge and you know it!

dare2sayit.com says:

December 30th, 2008 at 10:07 pm

“Federal Air Marshals Expose Alien Smuggling on Airlines”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKN3m9qQKKA

Pretty scarey stuff, especially the part about Muslim prayer rugs found on illegal alien border crossing paths.

Cash N. Carey says:

December 30th, 2008 at 10:48 pm

Folks, I am not seeing the Christmas spirit here! Can we go back to exposing the fraud of global warming? We are now experiencing the link between the earth’s temperature and sun spot activity. Cold enough for you?

adlib says:

December 31st, 2008 at 6:26 am

” Washington D.C. has had the strictest gun control laws in the country, but is also about the most dangerous with it’s extremely high murder rate. What’s up with that? ” D2 asks.

The link to Washington Post article shows figures thru 2005. The trend seems downward after the hand gun ban but the gap between ’05 and ’08 leaves room for conjecture, spin, etc.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/11/13/GR2007111300221.html

SgtPendleton says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:01 am

D2 wrote: “More liberal lies from the left. I never said that Sarge and you know it! ”

You posted the statement that these immigrants are like exotic zoo animals who would kill each other if left alone.

You didn’t say who wrote it, and you didn’t say that you disagreed with it – that’s a tacit ENDORSEMENT. I didn’t say you said it.

If you want to distance yourself from those comments, the right thing to do would be to apologize for posting that garbage in the first place.

SgtPendleton says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:03 am

CNC, not sure if you looked at the calendar recently, but it’s WINTER.

Can you explain to me what the difference is between CLIMATE and WEATHER?

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:19 am

Cash, the debate is over. The only ones that still believe Global Climate Change isn’t occurring and isn’t occurring as a result of human activity are right wing dupes of those industries that are profiting from the production of greenhouse gases.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187251,00.html

Look at this with an open mind. Forget everything you’ve heard from Jason Lewis and his anti-science prejudice. The science really doesn’t care whether or not you agree, it is what it is.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:53 am

Further, I’m not aware of any MN supreme court ruling on the recount in Nov 2008, so that’s a mystery reference.

We are fully aware you are unaware. Ask Dora about the SC.

Dora, your argument boils down to Franken’s suit claiming votes werent counted has more merit than Coleman’s. I dont buy that.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:55 am

e.g. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity — anyone have an example from the other side?).

Yes, Al Franken, although he failed miserably with that also.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:04 am

Adlib,, take a good look at that graph comparing DC to the other cities.. Note any differences?

The city with the stricktest anti-gun laws had a rate running 2 to 3 times higher than the rest.. Great support for disarmament of the sheeple.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:09 am

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=203B.12

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=203B.07

Which rules were changed by Franken’s suit? His suit was that the absentee ballots rejected should be re-evaluated and if the reason for rejection didn’t fall within the boundry of state statutes then it should be counted. How is that changing the rules?

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:22 am

The city with the stricktest anti-gun laws had a rate running 2 to 3 times higher than the rest.. Great support for disarmament of the sheeple.

If DC existed in a bubble you might have an argument but since it doesn’t you are either a blockhead or dishonest. How are guns getting distributed in DC? Mostly legal? Mostly illegal? And, probably not for the last time, no one has proposed the disarmament of anyone except criminals. We agree that’s the problem. Criminals with guns are not good for society. How do we disarm criminals?

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:35 am

Cash, this is from the EPA site. It pretty clearly frames the discussion.

Scientists know with virtual certainty that:

* Human activities are changing the composition of Earth’s atmosphere. Increasing levels of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times are well-documented and understood.
* The atmospheric buildup of CO2 and other greenhouse gases is largely the result of human activities such as the burning of fossil fuels.
* An “unequivocal” warming trend of about 1.0 to 1.7°F occurred from 1906-2005. Warming occurred in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, and over the oceans (IPCC, 2007).
* The major greenhouse gases emitted by human activities remain in the atmosphere for periods ranging from decades to centuries. It is therefore virtually certain that atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases will continue to rise over the next few decades.
* Increasing greenhouse gas concentrations tend to warm the planet.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has stated “Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations” (IPCC, 2007). In short, a growing number of scientific analyses indicate, but cannot prove, that rising levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are contributing to climate change (as theory predicts). In the coming decades, scientists anticipate that as atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases continue to rise, average global temperatures and sea levels will continue to rise as a result and precipitation patterns will change.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:44 am

Richard, Prior to Franken’s suit, rejected absentee votes were not considered in recounts, regardless of the reason for rejection. The re-evaluation of those ballots is the change in the process. Note I didnt say the change should not have been made.

I see today in the strib, that Franken isn’t being totally straigt about the 1346 either.. Interesting..

Hennepin County will take up the issue of rejected absentee ballots this morning, grappling with 329 that local officials say were wrongly rejected, as well as with another 170 that Coleman wants reconsidered and an additional 30 that Franken wants reviewed.

Might want to check the rates of deaths in Reston VA,, (across the river from your “bubbless DC”), Richmond VA,, (a whole hour away), and Baltimore MD, (a short jaunt to the North) Just to name a few. Your Bubble argument doesnt hold water. Fact remains the folks in DC are helpless, and the crooks know it.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:48 am

“Scientists” dont use the words “virtual” and “likely” to present facts.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:53 am

And, probably not for the last time, no one has proposed the disarmament of anyone except criminals.

You have no Idea how the DC law read, do you? It literally disarmed everyone. To keep a firearm in your home, it had to be disassembled and locked away. (that assumes you actually could obtain a permit to begin with)

parthian says:

December 31st, 2008 at 9:19 am

Les, back for more thrashing, eh?

Les thinks that if both “teams” file lawsuits, then they both must be of equal merit, whatever the actual claims might be. This is what passes for “analysis” and “thinking” by him, sort of a “pox on both your houses” approach.

This is like “arguing” with one of your (more limited) classmates in junior high, which is about where Les’s brainpower and judgment are at. And he’s the premier “conservative” on BQ (by far)!

I’ll be wating for YOUR indentification of the MN supreme court ruling on the recount in Nov 08, Les. You MUST know what you were referring to, don’t hide behind Dora’s posts, all of which I’ve found to be accurate, whereas yours are quite frequently totally inaccurate.

The National Academy of Sciences has a huge study out on the foolishness of conceal carry—-conclusion: it has no effect whatever on violent crime, and that other factors (such as poverty rate, policing, income disparity) are what drive differences between the various cities, duh. Conceal carry is just more worthless public policy for wingnut consumption. Gulp, gulp, gulp the sewage down…..solve nothing, asuage wingnut prejudices, this is how our country works now.

All those who think the gun control laws of DC are the most pressing problem before our failing country, raise your hand (no need to raise yours, Les, we know your “priorities”)

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 9:21 am

“Scientists” dont use the words “virtual” and “likely” to present facts.

Not true but in any event, copy writers often do. It jazzes up presentations oftentimes.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 9:33 am

It’s amazing you bring up Virginia gun laws in the wake of Virginia Tech. I remember talking about that with one of my friends, who happens to waste 250.00 dollars a year to the NRA and he postulated the tragedy could have been lessened if there were gun toting citizens on the green. I stopped him and told him to imagine 5 armed folks, blazing away, in addition to the first shooter on the green when SWAT showed up. If I’m on that SWAT team, there will be six bodies on the green before I relax. And by the way, Richmond VA has the 5th highest murder rate in the nation. Evidently the folks in Richmond are helpless as well. More guns does not solve the problem of gun violence.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 9:36 am

Virginia Firearm Statistics 2003

* There were 798 firearm deaths in Virginia in 2003 making it the second leading cause of injury death. The firearm death rate was 10.8 per 100,000.
* The age-adjusted death rate was 10.66 per 100,000.
* Males were almost 6 times more likely to suffer a firearm related death than were females.
* Blacks were 2 times more likely to suffer a firearm related death than were whites.
* There were 446 firearm related suicides, 330 firearm related homicides and 11 accidental firearm deaths.
* Firearms were the leading cause of injury for suicide deaths, responsible for over half (56%) of these deaths.
* Handguns were used in 34% of suicides, and shotguns were used in 17%.
* Firearms were the leading cause of homicide deaths, responsible for almost three-fourths (73%) of these deaths.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 10:07 am

From a study done in 1998:

During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

Conclusions: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 10:11 am

When did I bring up VA gun laws? I said compare DC to nearby cities… But, in any case,

Why do you pick 2003.. I provided you a link to current stats up 2007..

But anyway. 10.8 Vs 34.5… What’s your point? (BTW,, IIRC, the 2007 for DC was 30 point something, vast improvement headed towards that 10.8 over the last 4 years)

You missed the fact that over 50% were under the influence also..

Thanks for making my point.

Your “I stopped him and told him to imagine 5 armed folks, blazing away, in addition to the first shooter on the green when SWAT showed up” is the same hyperbole that had the streets of MPLS running red if the current CCW law was passed.

I think you should realize from our experience that despite your rhetoric to the contrary, the first inclination of a CCW carry is not to “blaze away”.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 10:19 am

the first inclination of a CCW carry is not to “blaze away”.

Really, because all the chuckleheads that I know, and it’s a few, that have CC permits, and actually carry, it would be their first inclination. Especially after having a few, which they do. Gun violence is reduced when there is more aggressive enforcement and more severe penalties for violating existing gun laws. Couple that with more limited access to guns in general, and you will see a marked decline in gun deaths in the US.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 10:27 am

You dont have enough data to make a conclusion. Where in your stats are the succesful self defense acts that did not require a shot fired? Brady Bunch hyperbole using incomplete data.

Of course, I’ll give you the fact that if the general public is disarmed, the criminals will not use firearms……..And the rate of non-violent crime will decrease….. After all, they are famouos for following the letter of the law.

BTW,, More folks are killed in auto accidents than die by firearms.. Do we ban automobiles? Increase the licensing age to 25? limit speed to less than 40MPH? (most folks can survive a crash at 40 or less, just the opposite above 40).

I’m also glad to see you think 34% more folks should use a knife instead of a firearm.

The argument you present is moot, as stats will indicate your much more likely to get killed in an auto accident if you drive/ride than if you don’t.

Dont get me started on the number of infants voluntarily murdered in this country each year by the medical establishment.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 10:32 am

Really, because all the chuckleheads that I know, and it’s a few, that have CC permits, and actually carry, it would be their first inclination

That statement reveals not only your bias, it reveals your dishonesty. How many of them have “blazed away” or even merely ‘slapped leather’. I would also question if they actually have a carry permit. If they do, they certianly weren’t paying attention in class.

Couple that with more limited access to guns in general

That’s your opinion, and I’ts obvious your not going to change your misconceptions. So be it.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 10:37 am

You can’t argue without non sequitors, okay, I’ll try and keep it simple. Guns as self defense tools are a bad idea.

Les says:

December 31st, 2008 at 11:12 am

Said the guy bringing a knife to a gunfight….

When you find the shangra-la where the bad guys dont have firearms, then I’ll agree with you. Truth is, you might as well pretend fire wasn’t created.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 11:26 am

Les, you are an idiot.

shangra-la where the bad guys dont have firearms,

All I’ve ever said is we can be more aggressive about disarming criminals. Never said we can completely disarm criminals.

Violent crime is relatively rare in Minnesota. Additionally, most murders and assaults happen between individuals known to each other. In 2001, of the 111 Minnesota homicide victims:

* 24% were murdered by a member of their nuclear family
* 63% were murdered by another family member or friend or relative
* 6% were murdered by strangers
* in 7% the relationship was unknown

So the shangri-la you were talking about would be were family members, friends and relatives don’t have firearms? Criminals aren’t the problem, cousins are.

Dora says:

December 31st, 2008 at 11:29 am

No Les, my comment boils down to there is no comparison. The Canvassing Board and the MN SC agreed with Franken that there were wrongly rejected absentee ballots that should be counted. Coleman has done everything he can to try to stop them from being counted and now he’s trying to cherry pick which ones to count. As Parthian pointed out, there is no comparison.

As far as Franken now wanting to add more back in, why wouldn’t he now that Coleman is doing so? Coleman rejected Franken’s request to just count those 1350. They can only be added if both campaigns agree. They don’t seem to be in an agreeing mood.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 11:38 am

Dora, Les’s defense of Coleman isn’t rational or logical it’s reflexive. GOP’ers haven’t gotten used to losing but give them a couple of election cycles. It will become the Norm.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 11:48 am

Bitter cold moves in to Interior
Temperatures could drop to 50 below zero in parts of Alaska

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/123008/sta_372411706.shtml

This must be the result of “Globull Warming”, eh Dick?

SgtPendleton says:

December 31st, 2008 at 12:39 pm

“This must be the result of “Globull Warming”, eh Dick? ”

Nice attempt to change the subject. You can run but you can’t hide D2.

Either admit that you endorse the racist view that immigrants are akin to zoo animals or apologize for posting that crap.

I’m confident you don’t have the spine to do either.
————

Richard, I think Les wants the guns out of criminals’ hands just as much as you do. No one’s advocating that conceal and carry is a crime-reduction law. It’s a gun owner rights issue.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Sarge,

I’ve told you several time that the “zoo animals” deal was a quote from someone stating how he thought liberal Mayor R.T. Rybak views certain groups of people. Try to get that through your thick head Sarge!

Now,
I’m going outside to enjoy our bitterly cold weather which seems to be the norm the last couple of winters.

Stay warm everyone and have a Happy New Year!

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 3:16 pm

“No one’s advocating that conceal and carry is a crime-reduction law.”

I think it is.

SgtPendleton says:

December 31st, 2008 at 3:17 pm

Wow…you have a real talent for selective memory don’t you? Maybe you can expalin further what the meaning of the word *is* is?

You’ve made it very clear where you stand on people from other cultures who don’t act “American” five minutes after getting here, and that post was just one step further than what you had stated yourself. But you can’t even acknowledge that it was offensive.

John E Iacono says:

December 31st, 2008 at 3:17 pm

“Can you explain to me what the difference is between CLIMATE and WEATHER?”

“Weather” is what everyone can clearly see and feel on any given day. It sometimes stretches to include the current week or the current season. Most folks have a strong tendency to believe their own eyes and aching fingers, or their own sweating backs.

“Climate” is the topic of egghead discussions, where lots of “scientists” who would be the first to acknowledge the data on which they base their discussions is incomplete at best, since they have to rely on trace evidence for trends over thousands of years.

Observations about the CAUSES of this trace data are even more speculative, moving still further from observed trace data to often largely assumed cause-effect relationships.

It is not unusual or unethical for a scientist to propose hypotheses to explain such evidence, and to form informed(from present day observations) hypotheses about causality. Until the hypotheses are tested and proven to be accurate, they are not accepted as theories.

And both hypotheses and theories are subject to modification as new facts are observed which are not explained by those scientific speculations.

Most theories, and nearly all hypotheses, are found to require substantial modifications before they can enter the world of “scientific fact.”

Given the very nature of scientific inquiry, and the admittedly sparse evidence from the past (which includes some contrary evidence in the form of still not understood major shifts in climate), there is every reason to think that these current hypotheses and evolving theories will undergo the same modifications.

Those of scientific mind are aware of this process, and are comfortable with it. They watch for evolving trends, and approach all hypotheses with a certain degree of scientific skepticism, while not rejecting the notion that it might look there is something in them to be learned.

Not so the press, often looking for just another “be alarmed” headline.

And ordinary folks, not surprisingly, not thinking much of eggheads anyway, tend to regard weather — and their own eyes and life memories and frostbitten fingers — as a more reliable measure.

Perhaps, when our schools improve, we can have a population with a more scientific mind, and more able to take these experiments in understanding our world as they are meant to be taken.

But as long as the media persist in being little red hens shouting daily that the sky is falling, I do not have high hopes.

And as long as there are scientists out to land a grant who feed the media for their own advantage, the media will persist.

In the meantime, my hands are cold, so I will quit now.

John E Iacono says:

December 31st, 2008 at 3:24 pm

And a footnote:

It probably should be observed that current theories about global warming do suggest that wider swings in weather should be expected as the process continues.

That does not make them right about causes, though. Not yet.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 3:44 pm

Good points John!

I guess if a climatologist wants to get a grant and stay employed, he has to be sounding the “Global Warming” alarm bells. I guess you can’t blame them for wanting to feed their families.

Just a few years ago, these same liberal alarmists were warning of “Global Cooling” and the coming Ice Age. I think they were more accurate the first time.

Sarge,
Why don’t you quit while your behind. I’ve explained to you that I was quoting someone else’s views on what he thought liberal mayor R.T. Rybak thinks of certain groups of people. You are foolish to keep trying to claim that I said something that I didn’t!

adlib says:

December 31st, 2008 at 5:08 pm

John E Locano says…It probably should be observed that current theories about global warming do suggest that wider swings in weather should be expected as the process continues.

That is understatement writ large. Kudo’s however to your previous post. Impressive material, almost worthy of a senate filibuster.

And stalling is exactly what a wait
for more evidence approach to this crisis, internationally acknowledged
except in the US,is. Bush v. Gore already assured an eight year delay in EVEN GETTING STARTED on a global initiative the US should be leading.

So far we’ve only discussed CO2 as contributor to the greenhouse effect. I may have erred in saying CO2 will be released by melting of the frozen tundra in Alaska and Greenland. Methane is 4 times as dense, ergo worse. All of these factors are combining in such way as to make a conservative out of Al Gore for his predictions of when the polar ice cap wll actually melt. That’s what Thomas Friedman says in his “Hot, Flat, and Crowded.” I urge you all to examine
the book, if only to refute it.

If the author is correct the rise in ocean temperatures that took centuries of Industrial Revolution to happen will easily double within the first half this century.

Naysayers are those who say “it’s no use, we’re fried anyway” or worse, “more research is needed to see if there really is even a problem.” Forward thinking would at least have kept a vision of off-planet habitat funded and growing … as an exit strategy if nothing else. But as our fellow species go extinct strong humanoid survivalists with lungs evolved to breathe methane will have the dubious distinction of outlasting the rest of us in a battle for the last fresh water sources on earth.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 5:17 pm

adlib,

Global warming is a leftist hoax, and any liberal attempt to fix a non-existant problem will only lower the quality of life and limit freedoms of Americans.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 5:36 pm

“Can you explain to me what the difference is between CLIMATE and WEATHER?”

Weather is the present conditions at a given location, at a given time.

Climate is the range of conditions that are likely to occur over a large geographic local.

For example, today in my home town it was -10 C for a low and -4 for a high.

That’s weather.

Climate is:
An “unequivocal” warming trend of about 1.0 to 1.7°F occurred from 1906-2005. Warming occurred in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, and over the oceans (IPCC, 2007).

You see Cash, it’s not too difficult to understand if you try. Local weather conditions, at the moment, do not really speak to trending over time. Extremities can though and I urge you to read Kerry Emanuel’s article on hurricane severity and global climate change.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187251,00.html

I know it’s difficult scientific stuff with lots of big words but I think you can get through it.

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 5:41 pm

From that Time article:

Less than a month before Katrina hit, the journal Nature published an extensive study that Emanuel had conducted in which he surveyed the power of roughly 4,800 hurricanes going back decades. His findings are as damning as they are scary. In that span of time—the period during which climatologists have been warning that greenhouse gases are steadily raising atmospheric and ocean temperatures—the power of the storms doubled. Warm ocean water is like nitroglycerine for hurricanes, and while many researchers had been predicting an explosion of more powerful storms, Emanuel, 51, offered evidence that it was actually happening. “I didn’t expect to get people’s attention with this paper,” he says, “but the timing, so close to Katrina, may have helped wake them up some.”

Richard says:

December 31st, 2008 at 6:21 pm

“Climate” is the topic of egghead discussions, where lots of “scientists” who would be the first to acknowledge the data on which they base their discussions is incomplete at best, since they have to rely on trace evidence for trends over thousands of years.

Scientists in quotes. Really? You want to denigrate and diminish science. Okay. When you get cancer, don’t even think about getting any kind of “chemo” treatment that was dreampt up by some scientist. And John, you should really stay away from that computer because without “scientists” it wouldn’t exist.

Incomplete data is what we base the majority of our decisions on, on a daily basis. Inferring conclusions based on existing data is how you get to work every day, moron.

Trending data doesn’t lie. Unless conditions change, trends continue. Show me a trend, I’ll tell what’s going to happen tomorrow, next week, next year. Genechi Taguchi knew what he was talking about.

adlib says:

December 31st, 2008 at 6:34 pm

D2 & CNC, I know it’s winter. I just cleared the walks of a corner lot and the fingers do get numb with cold. Doesn’t change a thing. We’ll also be experiencing more killer heat waves, more floods and tornadoes, crop failures (along with reasuringly cold weather,) if we don’t get moving.

What the polar ice cap means/meant to us was a circulating pump that kept the Humboldt current moving mild weather up to the northern latitudes of Europe. But the cold winter sludge thickening the arctic circle of the future doesn’t promise such benefits inland. Indeed it would be nice if the desert areas of the world would turn green again to offset losses of what we call home, but don’t count on it. Who knows what contaminants the rains will bring, but with glaciers gone from the mountain peaks the underground aquifiers will also cease to be a source of fresh water.

To take the long view there have always been ice ages with glaciers advancing and retreating. But a world without even a polar ice cap is something never before known since a breathable atmosphere has existed.

Doom is not inevitable. If greenhouse warming can be halted within no more than a 3 degrees F increase from the current global climate then the natural balance may be restored over time.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 6:50 pm

“We’ll also be experiencing more killer heat waves, more floods and tornadoes, crop failures (along with reasuringly cold weather,) if we don’t get moving.”

Liberals prediced a record number of hurricanes the summer before last due to “Global Warming” but that turned out to be false.

I’m glad the dust bowl with record heat happened in the 30′s and not today, or more people might be buying into your liberal propaganda adlib.

It was -22F at my house this morning, about 25 degrees below average.

Stay warm everyone and have a Happy New Year!

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:05 pm

And adlib,

Third world overpopulation is our greatest worldwide environmental threat, but liberals don’t want people to know that.

adlib says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:21 pm

The dust bowl was largely a result of agriculture as widely practiced at the time. Why none before? Not long before the “grapes of wrath” era there was the living prairie. Nice segue to “sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.”

As a last resort the States affected listened to some “eggheads” and reformed some farming practices. Not that you don’t still see cotton planted in regions too arid to sustain it like the Texas panhandle. Kind of like pumping water in Nebraska to grow corn to make ethanol.

Oughta be a law.

adlib says:

December 31st, 2008 at 7:27 pm

Cash, can you believe it? D2 agrees with me that the third world needs to find ways to curb its natural fecundity. But when I say it I’m called a bigot and a child murderer.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:07 pm

“The dust bowl was largely a result of agriculture as widely practiced at the time.”

There you liberals go again, blaming humans for natural variations in temperature.

adlib says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:23 pm

Les said …Adlib,, take a good look at that graph comparing DC to the other cities.. Note any differences?

Les, Looking at the DC graph(s) I see that the homicide rate was kind of flat around the time of the handgun ban in the seventies, rose a lttle in 1980, rose alot in 1986 and peaked around the time of first gulf war, started coming down but spiked again about 2003 around the second gulf war around 2003 and seemed to be trending downward in 2005.

Keep in mind that DC was amplifying trends seen less dramatically in other major cities. DC itself has a predominantly Afro-American populace, a edmographic with higher numbers in gun violence statisticsis. I’m not so sure why there were such peaks of gun violence unless it was due to lack of will to enforce the gun ban or a huge upsurge in handgun availability by adminsitrations ambivalent on this issue. As I said these statistics can be spun different ways.

dare2sayit.com says:

December 31st, 2008 at 8:25 pm

“DC itself has a predominantly Afro-American populace, a edmographic with higher numbers in gun violence statisticsis.”

No Sh|t?

dare2sayit.com says:

January 1st, 2009 at 9:06 am

adlib,

I agree that there should be strict gun control on criminals, but we should never take away the right of responsible citizens to protect themselves, and our Founding Fathers guaranteed us that right.

I remember a few years ago when and ex-Marine in his 80′s living alone in North Minneapolis had an intruder break into his house. The man went to his room and locked the door waiting for the intruder to take what he wanted and leave, but he insisted on breaking down the mans door even though he was warned to leave. The old guy had no choice but to get his handgun and fire it through the door injuring the intruder who left after being shot and was later found still in possession of some of the old guy’s belongings.

This old man most likely would have been killed if he didn’t have a way to protect himself. It would be cruel and unusual punishment to take away his right, especially in a neighborhood where gansta rap which glorifies and promotes violence is very popular.

adlib says:

January 1st, 2009 at 10:07 am

D2 Washington DC is a study in contrasts, where the powerful and well known of the land move around among the marginal disadvantaged folk of that city. Credit the lessons of non violence demonstrated by MLK with empowereing ALL of us to be all that we can be, even President. This reality, if fully developed, should go farther to reduce gun violence everywhere than the divisive politics of Sharpton or even Jeremiah Wright.

I’ve lived in North Mpls and so have others in my family. I’ve experienced break and entry burglary (while absent.) I know it can take years off your life to fear the oppression of a majority population. I wonder if the old marine who defended himself felt any less isolated after the understandable action he took? In any community you occupy you can embrace the society you live among or else move on. If you’re accepted then your neighbor might even be the perpetrators relative and cause (him) to make amends for a burglary. If you shun your neighbors they may infer your hostility to them.

I can say it’s more comfortable to live among neighbors who also have a stake in law and order. It can make me more complacent, and the memory of oppressing physical menace does not incline me toward obtaining weapons. Anyway you go with what you know, and I know that guns do not make my life more valuable.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 1st, 2009 at 10:46 am

adlib,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I think black on black crime is more of a problem than black on white crime in Mpls. and these gang thugs are equal opportunity crimals who will attack the easiest targets, not matter what their race.

I lived on 23rd and Lyndale No. in Mpls. up to 7th grade, and I’ve watched by old neighborhood turn into a war zone. The 15 year old pregnant murder victim they just found frozen in a garage was located about a block from my old house.

I blame our liberal welfare system for attracting trouble to Moneyapolis for more generous welfare benefits, and it has made the problem of crime and poverty worse, not better, because it’s been a system which rewards irresponsible behavior. That’s a topic for another time.

In any case, the old Marine lived through this attack only because he had a gun and was able to protect himself.

parthian says:

January 1st, 2009 at 11:26 am

John I. now thinks that the world’s climate scientists don’t possess (or understand) the “scientific mind” or exhibit “scientific scepticism”, but of course an aging accountant does. Oy, such monumental arrogance on a topic he knows nothing about, preaching Olympian (and false) platitudes about “science”.

The climate scientists proposed the hypothesis behind global warming (global mean temperature rise caused by massively increased CO2 in the atmosphere from humans burning ancient fossil fuels) in the 1980s and conducted 10 years of experiments (collecting and examining ancient ice cores and measuring current and historic CO2 concentrations and global temperatures using a number of disparate methods).

They also examined every possible cause and potential flaw on their theory, such as increased solar radiation. They also examined every argument to the contrary to explain the data or question the existence of the warming.

The result? In 1995 that they declared that the hypothesis was demonstrated to the unanimous satisfaction of all the IPCC scientists and completely supported by the collected data. Every scrap of data collected since 1995 has only reinforced that prior conclusion; indeed the IPCC has recently UNDERESTIMATED the rate of climate change.

But there have been no “modifications” away from the basic theory, and there is literally no reason to think there will be in any way, despite John’s grand pronouncements about the “ways of science”.

Indeed, neither John (nor any other BQ wingnut) could even recite the basic points of the theory of global warming or the most basic data behind it. Yet John is blithely “skeptical” and congratulates himself on his “scientific mind”, which unfortunately so few(!) possess in this day and age, what with the Lib’rul Media ™ and all. Such ignorant male preening would be comic, if the stakes weren’t so massive.

We cannot perform “experiments” on the atmosphere, but that does not mean that the hypothesis has not been proven, although apparently that is the only thing that would satisfy the wingnuts.

We have now frittered away the past 15 years doing absolutely nothing—indeed we have crazily INCREASED our CO2 production despite the clear warnings of the world’s scientists.

We are on the very edge of the tipping point, and if very significant reductions are not agreed to by the world’s polluters within the next 3 years, the world’s 11,000 year old stable climate will be irreversibly altered and the only planet human civilization has ever known will be destroyed, as well as millions of innocent species, plant and animal.

And the poisoned brain conservative wingnuts scream “It’s a hoax!! Let’s risk it!!” All because they hate “environmentalists” and “lib’ruls”. As pinheads, thet’re happy to cut off their head to spite their body, but unfortunately they want to take everything else with them. Appalling and deeply anti-intellectual, yet they smugly think THEY’RE the ones with the “scientific minds”, not the actual climate scientists. Jeebus, the hubris….

dare2sayit.com says:

January 1st, 2009 at 5:54 pm

Partisan says:

“In 1995 that they declared that the hypothesis was demonstrated to the unanimous satisfaction of all the IPCC scientists and completely supported by the collected data.”

Here’s the latest Partisan. Put this in your pipe and smoke it:

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

Richard says:

January 1st, 2009 at 8:12 pm

Wow, 650 scientists disagree, to varying degrees, about a UN report. Meanwhile, 20,000 climatologists generally agree. It’s almost like we should, while working to reduce CO2 emissions, study this complex system further. Let’s just say, that there is no effect of mankinds activity on the climate. Why is reducing the amount of pollutants we expell into the atmoshere a bad thing? Green energy production technology could become the next revolution in the world’s economy.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:48 am

“Why is reducing the amount of pollutants we expell into the atmoshere a bad thing?”

No one says it is, but banning clean coal like Obama want’s to do before we come up with a replacement is irresponsible. It’s our #1 source of energy right now and we NEED IT.

“Green energy production technology could become the next revolution in the world’s economy.”

Great! No one is stopping anyone from delevoping this. At the moment though, technologies like wind simply don’t work well and government should force us to switch over to this at the expense of our economy. Government Ethanol subsidies have been a failure as well. Ethanol is less efficient and does more overall harm to the environment that gasoline, and it has also driven up the cost of food which I think played a role in our recession.

Government screws up just about everything it gets it’s hands on.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 6:32 am

And Dick,

Obama has stated that he wants to “Bankrupt” the Coal industry. This will only greatly raise the cost of energy and put thousands and thousands of people out of work. I guess you can’t trust our national security OR the economy to the democtrat party.

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 7:44 am

This is from Obama’s website

Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology. Carbon capture and storage technologies hold
enormous potential to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions as we power our economy with
domestically produced and secure energy. As a U.S. Senator, Obama has worked tirelessly to
ensure that clean coal technology becomes commercialized. An Obama administration will
provide incentives to accelerate private sector investment in commercial scale zero‐carbon coal
facilities. In order to maximize the speed with which we advance this critical technology, Barack
Obama and Joe Biden will instruct DOE to enter into public private partnerships to develop 5
“first‐of‐a‐kind” commercial scale coal‐fired plants with carbon capture and sequestration.

Sounds like a reasonable approach. At some point Bigot, you have to logically look at what you’re posting.

Obama has stated that he wants to “Bankrupt” the Coal industry.

Where? If it’s from some viral e-mail that you got from Silas Bugshaw then you might have to question the veracity of it. Or, if you simply heard it on Jason Lewis, you definitely have to question it. JL get’s next to nothing right. He’s an complete moron.

Now, Obama did say, “in a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely. But there is certainly, at least from my understanding, there is a dramatic difference in the effects of the so-called dirty coal in a broad variety of ways as opposed to the cleaner coal.”

That’s not exactly calling for the bankrupting of the coal industry and putting thousands and thousands of people out of work. Here is where you have to ask yourself, “Why would someone do that?” Obama is a smart guy. Bankrupting a large industry like coal mining and putting thousands of people out of work wouldn’t be in the nations best interest or Obamas best interest. So, you have to logically conclude that that statement is wrong and by posting it, you reinforce the prevalent impression that you are a moron. Just trying to help.

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 8:11 am

Here is a press release from the National Academy of Sciences. This the Supreme Court of the scientific community.

There will always be uncertainty in understanding a system as complex as the world’s climate. However there is now strong evidence that significant global warming is occurring. The evidence comes from direct measurements
of rising surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures and from phenomena such as increases in average global sea levels, retreating glaciers, and changes to many physical and biological systems. It is likely that
most of the warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities (IPCC 2001) This warming has already
led to changes in the Earth’s climate.

The ridiculous preponderance of evidence and opinion renders the questions of whether or not Global Climate Change is occuring and if so, is it a result of human activity, moot. Those questions have been asked and answered to the satisfaction of the vast majority of scientists who work directly in this field. The important question in front of the public now, is how do we address this? Do we pretend that it’s not a problem? Do we deny the evidence and hope for the best? Or can we take this opportunity to radically change the way human beings impact their environment and each other. Could we view this environmental crisis and economic crisis as evidence for a failed military based system that has to be discarded?

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 8:15 am

Just wanted post #300. Carry on.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 10:43 am

“Wow, 650 scientists disagree, to varying degrees, about a UN report. Meanwhile, 20,000 climatologists generally agree.”

Yep, the cash cow of the Gorists and Gulliblists has already created 20,000 new jobs. All at tax payers expense. Unbelievable.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 10:47 am

“The ridiculous preponderance of evidence and opinion renders the questions of whether or not Global Climate Change is occuring and if so, is it a result of human activity, moot.”

Carbon Al put the Bull in Globull Warming. Cut and Paste regurgitated slop. 3rd grade level exagerated plagerized slideshow BS.

Deacon Blues says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am

I claim this blog for myself and the Think Again refugees. Im plantin’ a flag and am prepared to get medevil on yo’ asses.

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 am

Carbon Al put the Bull in Globull Warming. Cut and Paste regurgitated slop. 3rd grade level exagerated plagerized slideshow BS.

First of all,
exagerated = exaggerated
plagerized = plagiarized
slideshow = slide show

Second of all, you might want to back some of your nonsense up with facts. You know, science. Using unoriginal pejoratives and insults doesn’t convince anyone.

Third of all, if you’re going to complain about 3rd grade level BS, attend to your sentence structure. Judging from your post, I would put you at somewhere between a 1st and 2nd grade level intellect.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 am

You forgot about the tank .. we have a tank.

A big tank.

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 am

A reasonable diet and exercise will take care of that.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 am

Someone doesn’t know about naked canibal polar bears yet …

What’s Richard short for?

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 am

“A reasonable diet and exercise will take care of that. ”

Yes, you should try eating more ruffage and going for a brisk walk.

This will eliminate that which needs to be eliminated.

This is kinda funny, but many times in our old land were spent discussing p00p .. it appears that this new world is all about that as well.

How grand.

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 am

canibal = cannibal

Jesus, are any of you Think Again rejects literate? It’s not that tough.

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:02 pm

ruffage = roughage

This is kinda funny, but many times in our old land were spent discussing p00p

Not surprising considering Kerstan’s writing.

This page is a more issues orientated venue.

Deacon Blues says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm

“This page is a more issues orientated venue.”

Not anymore Dick. You dont mind if I call you Dick do you???

“Jesus, are any of you Think Again rejects literate? It’s not that tough.”

Define Literate? Can I spell? No.

Can I whup yer’ ass in the subject of your choosing? Absolootley

Deacon Blues says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 pm

A true sign of an under developed lame ass blog is the “1st grade level” slam.

It clearly illustrates that this Blog had been populated with morons in the past.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm

“Jesus, are any of you Think Again rejects literate? It’s not that tough. ”

None of us is Jesus, but Odin think’s he’s God.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pm

“It clearly illustrates that this Blog had been populated with morons in the past. ”

Maybe we can fix them?

Deacon Blues says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:26 pm

“Maybe we can fix them?”

They are already neutered Greg. Maybe thats why Dick goes by that name? Nostaligia for a bygone era when he still had balls.

Did I spell that right Dick (aka Spelling Nazi)?

I think Im gonna call you Himmler from now on.

Downtown Dan says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:32 pm

Could Word Press make things any more difficult to register (and why should anyone be required to re-register just to cross post from another Strib blog??).

Anyway, word from another KK refugee; prepare for culture clash. This should be fun. Pedants be prepared to work overtime.

Someone pass the popcorn.

Downtown Dan says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:35 pm

Would Dick delete posts if someone’s being a dick? That would be ironic.

So what words are forbidden? Analyze? Cocksure?

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm

“This page is a more issues orientated venue.”

Holy crap bangers batman. This looks like a fun place to blog.

Downtown Dan says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Second of all, you might want to back some of your nonsense up with facts.

If you can show him a picture of a cannibal polar bear he’ll go away. Otherwise he’s totally immune to facts.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:40 pm

From this day forward, I, GO SUCK A HOGS ASS, pledge to not question the validity of cannibal polar bears even though there is no photographic evidence of said bears.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:43 pm

“Otherwise he’s totally immune to facts.”

As I have stated previously, I will take all evidence into account while forming an opinion on any topic of concern while I manipulate the facts to sway myself into believing otherwise.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm

I think Dick has a short temper .. amongst other things.

It’s a small world after all
It’s a small world after all
It’s a small world after all
It’s a small, small, world

Poor little Dick.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:52 pm

Richard Cranium

Downtown Dan says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 12:56 pm

“This page is a more issues orientated venue.”

Not any more.

whatdidisay says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 1:03 pm

Hey its me.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm

“Richard Cranium ”

It’s good to know a persons name.

I still think we should call him Dick .. for .. err ..um ..

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm

“Hey its me. ”

Could you be a bit more vague?

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 pm

hey I am here too!!!

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm

Just to let everyone know my basic positions are

1. Everyone has a right to express there views no matter how wrong they are.

2. Everyone who is not a criminal should have a gun, in their home and on their person. If you are a criminal, you get no gun. If you use a gun in a crime or if your use of the gun is a crime, you get locked up and key thrown away. No plea barginning for the gun charge.

3. Legislatures should make laws not judges.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm

“2. Everyone who is not a criminal should have a gun, in their home and on their person. If you are a criminal, you get no gun. If you use a gun in a crime or if your use of the gun is a crime, you get locked up and key thrown away. No plea barginning for the gun charge.”

So this means we should allow everyone with a mental disability to carry a firearm if they have no criminal past.

Perfect .. 250,000 rainmen and D2 fully armed in the mall.

Richard says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 2:24 pm

250,000 rainmen and D2

That’s just redundant.

Everyone who is not a criminal should have a gun, in their home and on their person.

Colt, Glock, Sigg would dearly love that. In fact those are the only ones who would benefit.

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm

Dick

Quit living up to your namesake.

Many many many lives are saved becuase a person is able to defend themselves with a weapon.

Oh wait, are you saying those people don’t count – so there is no benefit!

What a YOU!

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm

Dick

Quit living up to your namesake.

Many many many lives are saved becuase a person is able to defend themselves with a weapon.

Oh wait, are you saying those people don’t count – so there is no benefit!

What a YOU!

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 2:58 pm

Greg

No I don’t want the mentally challenged people to have a gun. Except of course D2 – he gets one just so that you keep being afraid.

Downtown Dan says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm

This is a test. This is a test to see if italics are possible here when quoting other posters.

Otherwise it seems rather hypocritical for such an outspoken pedant as Dick (Can I call you Dick? Great, thanks.) to not display such a fundamental understanding of basic online communication and/or otherwise extend so simple a courtesy to other readers as to extend Poor Man’s Italics, a “x”.

I mean, if you care enough to pay attention to spelling…

Or maybe Dick isn’t really a pedant, maybe he’s just a dick, masquerading as a pedant to be a dick.

Kids, don’t be a Dick.

Downtown Dan says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:09 pm

Many many many lives are saved becuase a person is able to defend themselves with a weapon.

Now when you look at the rest of the industrialized modern world, the statement, “Many many many lives are saved because untrained civilians aren’t allowed to randomly arm themselves” is the truism. However it’s too late for the US. You won that battle a long time ago.

Everybody has guns, and the crazier and more paranoid one is, the more guns they most likely have.

“USA, not a safe place to be unarmed. Arm up!”

Proud?

Downtown Dan says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:11 pm

to extend Poor Man’s Italics, a “x”.

Uh-hm, “to extend Poor Man’s Italics, a ‘x.’”

And I HATE when other people make that mistake. (banging head on desk…)

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pm

DD

Now when you look at the rest of the industrialized modern world, the statement, “Many many many lives are saved because untrained civilians aren’t allowed to randomly arm themselves” is the truism.

What!!! Name the “rest of the industrialized modern world” countries. Otherwise your just a blog idiot.

BTW – nice slam on the Dick

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm

Ok

Your is the possessive
and
You’re is the contraction of You are.

Don’t make that mistake again.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm

“No I don’t want the mentally challenged people to have a gun. Except of course D2 – he gets one just so that you keep being afraid.”

Admit it .. D2 having a gun in the state you live would scare you too.

And no, I won’t even reduce that to county because he’ll just buy a larger caliber to compensate.

However, I would be okay with him being armed if he and Dick were neighbors.

I think that would be perfect in fact ..

Now, let’s discuss whether or not you are old enough to procure a firearm much less be publicly armed.

John E Iacono says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Wow!

That other strib site must have become REALLY boring!

marketplace_of_ideas says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 3:48 pm

Greg

D2 having a gun would NOT scare me. Not one bit.

I am in the same decade of life that you are. I know you are confused because I am so different from you….My waist is below 40 inches, my hair is still on my head, and my hair is not grey.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 pm

“D2 having a gun would NOT scare me. Not one bit.”

Me either.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 4:24 pm

I can’t wait until Partisan and DFL Dora speak up!.

Deacon Blues says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 pm

” I know you are confused because I am so different from you….My waist is below 40 inches, my hair is still on my head, and my hair is not grey.”

That and you’ve got your head up your ass.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 4:55 pm

“” I know you are confused because I am so different from you….My waist is below 40 inches, my hair is still on my head, and my hair is not grey.”

My waist is about 35 .. but I’m working on that. I have hair on my head .. alot of it. I don’t have grey hair. I have gray hair with some brown and black and some auburn too.

And .. most importantly .. my head has never been up my a@@ or anyone else’s.

Now, tell us the type of weapon you prefer and why please. And could you also tell us how many times you’ve used it? And then please tell me how many instances of armed citizens having thwarted a crime, or fired the weapon at another citizen commiting a crime successfully in Minnesota.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 4:56 pm

“What a YOU!”

Ahahahahahhahahahhaa, thats tooooo funny ahahaahhahhhaahhahhhahahaha

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pm

“I can’t wait until Partisan and DFL Dora speak up!. ”

Please don’t tell us what you’re NOT wearing.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pm

Katherines corpse is’nt even cold and the anarchy has begun.

Everyone listen up. All you regular Big Q people need to know what I’m about to say.

Greg63 has a girlie myspace page and he’s sporting a mullet.
There, I’ve said it and I feel alot better for it.

No regrets, no prisoners.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:09 pm

“Greg63 has a girlie myspace page and he’s sporting a mullet.
There, I’ve said it and I feel alot better for it.”

GO looks like a marshmallow on his double girlie myspace page.

He’s a smooth head ..

D2 .. get off his leg.

GO saha says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 pm

“GO looks like a marshmallow on his double girlie myspace page.”

You lie, mullet boy.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:24 pm

“Greg63 has a girlie myspace page and he’s sporting a mullet.
There, I’ve said it and I feel alot better for it.”

I laughed so hard my Buweiser almost came out my nose!

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 pm

“I laughed so hard my Buweiser almost came out my nose! ”

We all know that’s not Budweiser. It’s Friday and you invited the boys from the factory over didn’t you.

Cash N. Carey says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pm

Another week forecast of below average temps. Global cooling is upon us, stoke up your coal furnaces!

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 5:50 pm

Hi Cash,

We have some new guys (and gals) joining us from Katherine Kersten’s Think Again blog. They’re all great people, even Greg63.

I’m heading up to Mille Lacs in the morning, taking my future son-in-law from North Carolina ice fishing who’s never been on a frozen lake. I’m glad this “Global Warming” is providing such thick ice on all the lakes so that driving on them is no problem.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 6:22 pm

The Vikings didn’t make their deadline for a sellout by 3:30PM today to avoid a blackout, but they were granted a 24 hour extension with over 3,000 tickets to go.

How can a family go to a Viking game with the remaining tickets at $100+ each, plus all the other costs?

Maybe Ziggy should pick up the tab for any remaining tickets so fans can watch the game?

adlib says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 pm

D2 says “We have some new guys (and gals) joining us from Katherine Kersten’s Think Again blog. They’re all great people, even Greg63.”

Greg, since D2′s endorsement of you was weak I guess you come closest to being the resident liberal on the BQ blog now…or not. Savor the honor but don’t expect too much help from anyone unless it’s Les who does have at least one serious bone in his body.

Anyway the BQ blog was apparently in decline even before D2′s friends joined it, and if you do for BQ what rumor has it you did for the KK and her blog – well enjoy your playpen while it lasts.

To the rest of the regulars on this site … farewell, catch ya later under a new pseudonym.

dare2sayit.com says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 6:42 pm

“Greg, since D2’s endorsement of you was weak I guess you come closest to being the resident liberal on the BQ blog now”

adlib,
Greg doesn’t like being called a liberal as far as I can tell.

Hopefully you will stick around adlib. Don’t let the Think Again guys scare you off, those bastards.

Greg63 says:

January 2nd, 2009 at 6:56 pm

adlib?

No plan?

Liveral? Nah ..

Either side is too confining.

I’m American.

DJ Take 2 says:

January 3rd, 2009 at 1:07 am

Jeeeeezzzz…….. What a ridiculous process to log in!! I’m already registered with the Strib and with Think Again. Then it wouldn’t send my password to my one e-mail account, so I had to send it to my other e-mail account… whatever, no big deal.

Richard, I can spell. Can you at least use quotation marks since you are apparently incapable of using italics or bold(Odin’s preference). It makes it much easier to read. Thanks Dick.

Satan says:

January 3rd, 2009 at 1:21 am

“D2 having a gun would NOT scare me. Not one bit.”

Me neither, but I’m out of range.

DJ Take 2 says:

January 3rd, 2009 at 1:31 am

Satan? Almost as pathetic as using “God”. Honestly, what were you thinking? “I’m gonna be real edgy. I want to be hip and with it and I don’t care what anyone thinks.”

You’re dope. Really. “Da bomb.”

His Majesty says:

January 3rd, 2009 at 2:04 am

Happy now?

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