A glass that’s nine-tenths full?
May 26th, 2009 – 12:29 PM by Jim KernA year after setting an apparent single-session record for vetoes, Gov. Tim Pawlenty was fairly prolific again this year. The governor vetoed all or parts of 30 bills, compared with 34 in 2008.
Since taking office in 2003, Pawlenty has rung up a total of 87 vetoes, all but three of them in the past three years. Not coincidentally, that’s the period when the Republican governor has faced DFL majorities in both houses of the Legislature.
The breakdown this year: 22 vetoes of entire bills, line-item vetoes applied to eight measures. A pair of billion-dollar tax bills were the most high-profile veto victims. A $381 million allocation for a health care program for childless adults was the biggest line-item veto. That money was for the fiscal year starting in July 2010.
But it wasn’t all disagreement. The Legislature sent 179 measures to the governor, meaning he signed off on 149 in their entirety. And if you want to get downright warm and fuzzy, add in the eight bills that he signed with some reductions, and 88 percent of the measures got his signature.
145 Responses to "A glass that’s nine-tenths full?"
Sounds pretty typical for a governor who is from the non-dominant party. I think Minnesotans like voting DFL for their local state Senator or Representative, but having a moderate Republican in charge. With the exception of Jesse’s 4 years, it’s been that was since 1990.
Another conversation-inspiring topic from the BQ. You’re right guys. This blog is “da bomb”.
Chill, DJ, chill. It’s the bloggers, not the topics, that make the blog. All you’ll get from KK is the right hand side of the information freeway. If that’s what appeals to you, so be it.
I’m chilled. Shaken, not stirred.
The name’s Bond. DJ Bond.
Interesting topic. All we hear about in the media is the vetos and unallotment possibilities, as far as TPaw is concerned. In reality, he has signed off on the vast majority of what has been sent to his desk. And, as a “non-dominant” governor, he has had a veto overridden only once.
I think KK is a much better reporter than columnist — I mean that as a compliment.
She reported in one of her columns that the big hub-bub about no alcohol in the airport taxis was largely the product of outside, conservative Islam activists — and that 99.9% of cab drivers didn’t mind hauling customers with alcohol in their bags. They felt is was okay because it was a part of their job.
This only just begins to make up for all her other columns that painted a negative image of Somali immigrants…but it was good reporting.
Sarge,
Speaking of Solali’s, Katherine was right in bringing up the taxpayer funded Muslim school as one of her topics. The liberal media would rather you didn’t know about it.
“The liberal media would rather you didn’t know about it.”
Must be tough surrounded “liberal” entities on all sides, eh, D2? The media, the government. And they’re all out to get you.
It’s enough to make a guy paranoid….
“But it wasn’t all disagreement. The Legislature sent 179 measures to the governor, meaning he signed off on 149 in their entirety. And if you want to get downright warm and fuzzy, add in the eight bills that he signed with some reductions, and 88 percent of the measures got his signature.”
Is there perhaps some false equivalency in this warm and fuzzy analysis. I’d say the Budget Bill was a pretty big exception.
“I’m chilled. Shaken, not stirred.”
I’m sauteed. Stirred, not fried.
Did anyone hear Obama’s plan yet on what he is doing with the Gitmo detainees? It was pretty fun to watch him elevate Cheney by scheduling his speech to coincide with Cheney’s. Cheney easily won the debate by sticking to facts.
Obama on the other hand stated that we needed to look ahead and stop living in the past. He then spent most of the speech attacking the past president. I think he was hearing footsteps behind him. Here comes Darth Vader! Run Obama run!
“Run Obama run!”
He was planning on seeking a second term anyway, but your encouragement is certainly appreciated.
Anyone hear Gen Petraeus say that he thinks closing Gitmo is the right thing to do? And that he said he’s been on the record for some time now that interrogations should conform to Geneva Conventions?
How quickly will the rw extremists throw him under the bus for that?
This Governor has taken ownership of the Minnesota economy over the next two years. If the performance of that economy improves, it will be laid at his desk and he can revel in that accomplishment. If though, jobs are lost, services are reduced, education suffers, property taxes increase, in general, the economy declines, that to will be laid at this governor’s desk. If this governor decides he wants to run for national office, the story of his obstruction will be told. Minnesota’s economy will need someone to repair the damage this governor has done to the Minnesota’s economy.
D2, it’s wrong of you to characterize the “liberal” media as “not wanting you to know”. As monty points out, that language suggests that “the liberal media” is some kind of force that acts as one. It makes less intelligent people, like yourself, believe that there’s some kind of conspiracy in the media to promote liberal ideas, which is of course b.s.
Dora, the military has long been in favor of closing Gitmo. In fact until the civilian leadership (Sec of Defense Rumsfeld and Darth Cheney) started sticking their nose in it, they actually followed the Geneva convention. We have a terrific military that excels at following whatever guidelines we give them. And if we give them none, they bring REAL American values into their work — that’s why initially, there was no torture at Gitmo.
“This Governor has taken ownership of the Minnesota economy over the next two years. If the performance of that economy improves, it will be laid at his desk and he can revel in that accomplishment.”
I’d hate to think we’ll be fated to endure a couple years of high unemployment and a collapsing state economy just to demonstrate the failure of TP’s leadership. I’d rather think that we merely suffer by comparison with some other states whose economies start to flourish under governors who work with their State Houses and embrace the funding opportunities offered by the US leadership instead of our internicine squabbling and passive resistance to cooperating with the Obama Adminsistration.
I’d hate to think we’ll be fated to endure a couple years of high unemployment and a collapsing state economy just to demonstrate the failure of TP’s leadership.
Compromise was his to embrace. He choose the less traveled road and now has completely removed the DFL from any failure. The entire enchilada is his now. In two years we will have to clean up the mess but for now, any rise in unemployment, any hospital closing, any riot in any street, all belongs to little timmy.
You guys sound like a couple of conservatives talking about Obama.
Seriously though, behind he compelling personal story (as well as being a nice guy), Pawlenty is a highly skilled politician. Let’s assume for the moment that he’s going to run for a third term as governor. Who’s the DFL going to put up against him? No one in the DFL can match Pawlenty’s charisma and personal appeal.
SgtP, watch Rep. Paul Thissen. I’ve heard him speak. Very good. Very smart.
I think Pawlenty will be very vulnerable if he chooses to run for a third term. Hatch just about knocked him out in 2006 and the state has trended DFL even more since then.
Pawlenty has proved incapable of working with others across the state and has chosen to impose his will through a process which has struck many as arrogant.
How quickly will the rw extremists throw him under the bus for that?
It depends on how long it takes them to get Colin Powell untangled from the bus’ axle.
“Compromise was his to embrace. He choose the less traveled road and now has completely removed the DFL from any failure.”
Only in your twisted little mind. Compromise was there for the DFL to embrace too, but they also chose not to embrace it. This whole session was about getting sound bites for 2010.
Pawlenty has acted in an unreasonable, anti-democratic and dictatorial fashion on the every budget he has received from the DFL legislature because his goal is to make it appear that government doesn’t function with DFL majorities.
He can do this because of the unfortunate line item veto, which gives far, far too much power to the executive, and when abused (as Pawlenty does) turns the governor into some sort of “super legislator” which was not the intent of the line item veto.
So now he (as a single individual) gets to decide how much to spend on public health care programs for the poor, and a dozen other programs. As a Repub hater of majority rule democracy, and one who’s never received even 50% of the vote, he crazily believes the MN constitution has set him up as some sort of imperial pro-consul who can just say no to the legisalative branch and fashion his own budget.
Thus, he happily throws the public good (in a terrible recession) under the bus solely to score political points. He’s highly irresponsible and his black/white “conservative” ideology is the main reason we have faced one gub’mint crisis after another during his two failed terms as governor.
And the DFL is too weak to even have a clue about how to condemn the little MN emperor and fight him.
“And the DFL is too weak to even have a clue about how to condemn the little MN emperor and fight him.”
Maybe he’s not as unpopular as you think he is? If the DFL had unquestioned and complete support state wide this wouldn’t be an issue.
After his budget cuts and their effects become apparent, Pawlenty won’t be able to get elected to any state office. He recognizes this but he will be nicely poised to run for national office. His grandstanding will cast him in the role of a new breed of fiscal conservative. Jobs lost, hospitals closed, police and fireman laid off, property taxes doubling will not enter into that casting. Minnesota’s recovery will be severely hampered by little timmy but that won’t matter in his ambition to be the VP candidate in 2012.
Deacon writes:
“Maybe he’s not as unpopular as you think he is? If the DFL had unquestioned and complete support state wide this wouldn’t be an issue.”
What about him is popular? Pawlenty has never won a majority in an election effort. The Minnesota Republican party has been reduced to a rump with barely enough votes to sustain a veto.
The real hope for the Republicans is that another doomed third party effort will emerge to once again obscure the issues an enable the possibility that, once again, Pawlenty does not have to get 50% to win.
The nice Republicans have done the usual McCarthy thing and purged any remaining moderates from the party. Just about any average DFL candidate will beat Pawlenty in 2010 and then so much for Pawlenty’s White House dreams.
Cound not happen to a nicer guy.
“What about him is popular?”
According to the polls Ive seen his approval rating is at 48%. The Dems cant override his veto. Im not a Pawlenty fan. Ive never voted for him and I think hes acting in his own selfish interests. But to listen to you guys b:tch about him sounds like you think he is a lone wolf with no support and totally out of touch with the entire state. Sorry but thats just not the case.
“The real hope for the Republicans is that another doomed third party effort will emerge to once again obscure the issues an enable the possibility that, once again, Pawlenty does not have to get 50% to win.”
God bless the 3rd parties. As soon as the two party system is destroyed the better.
“Just about any average DFL candidate will beat Pawlenty in 2010 and then so much for Pawlenty’s White House dreams.”
I wouldnt bet on it.
I guess what Im saying True is dont assume that because Pawlenty looks weak to you and the national GOP party is on life support that the DFL is by default in the drivers seat. So far they look pretty impotent to me.
TPaw’s two terms in office have more to do with the left being split over the DFL and Independence Party candidates than anything else. To the MnGOP’s credit, they hve closed ranks behind him well, but take Tim Penny out of the ’02 race and Peter Hutchinson out of the ’06 race and TPaw is still a state rep.
“To the MnGOP’s credit, they hve closed ranks behind him well, but take Tim Penny out of the ‘02 race and Peter Hutchinson out of the ‘06 race and TPaw is still a state rep.”
That isnt Penny or Hutchinson’s problem. Thats the DFL’s problem for putting up losers. If they cant beat the GOP in a blue state like MN they are incompetent and out of touch.
“President Obama’s energy adviser has suggested all the world’s roofs should be painted white as part of efforts to slow global warming.”
Ever done L.S.D. anybody?
“That isnt Penny or Hutchinson’s problem.”
Didn’t say it was. What I did say was Penny and Hutchinson took votes away from the DFL to a far larger degree than the GOP, enabling TPaw to win.
I’ll agree the DFL has put up poor candidates lately. My point is, even Hatch would have beaten TPaw if there had been no third party siphoning off votes that would have gone his way.
Contributions by the “White Paint” companies to Obama?
“What I did say was Penny and Hutchinson took votes away from the DFL to a far larger degree than the GOP, enabling TPaw to win.”
Got a source on that monty? I was always under the assumption that it was closer to a 50-50 split.
How was the fishin’ this weekend?
“My point is, even Hatch would have beaten TPaw if there had been no third party siphoning off votes that would have gone his way.”
My point is blaming the loss on a third party sounds like the rationlization of a loser. Its a way to deflect your short comings onto someone else. Its an excuse, a scapegoat.
Like I said, MN is a blue liberal state. If you cant beat the GOP because a 3rd party is taking 5 – 10% of the vote, you need to retool your brand.
Deacon writes:
“I guess what Im saying True is dont assume that because Pawlenty looks weak to you and the national GOP party is on life support that the DFL is by default in the drivers seat. So far they look pretty impotent to me.”
The reason that I think Pawlenty is going to be very vulnerable should he choose to seek a third term is because of the issues. The political environment and the public’s perception of the issues has changed since Pawlenty first ran for Governor. Back then, the Republicans were on the ascendency. Pawlenty was elected Governor with a number of other Republican state wide officials. These other Republican state officals fell by the way side in the elections 2006 when the Governor was the sole elected surviving state wide official.
Back then, why governing was easy. All you had to do was keep taxes low and everything else fell into place. You know, just like the great Republican President George W. Bush.
Well, things have changed. The economy is in much worse shape than at any other time this decade and the government is not longer viewed as evil by most Americans. The public agrees that there is a place in a well run Minnesota for government action in our schools, infrastructure and social safety net.
That is why Pawlenty will have problems.
Now you could be right. The Democrats could screw up big time in the next year and a half. The public could decide, like Kersten evidently has, that the biggest threat to America is the threat poised by the government creating jobs and insuring that all our children have decent health care.
You can make that bet. I won’t.
“Got a source on that monty? I was always under the assumption that it was closer to a 50-50 split.”
No, but I’ll go do some checking this afternoon and get back to ya on it. On the face of it, I sincerely doubt many GOPers defected to Tim Penny’s banner, or Peter Hutchinson’s, for that matter. But I’ll go look and see what I can find. Deacon thinks it’s scapegoating. We’ll see….
The fishing was fair. Actually, I think Saturday and Sunday were too nice out for good fishing-not enough of a breeze. We got 13 keeper walleye, plus a few decent jumbo perch. Made for a good fish fry Sunday night. We didn’t get out fishing Monday at all.
Did you get out?
“You can make that bet. I won’t.”
I know you think Im conservative True. Im not. I just think you underestimate how many of them are out there. Its probably because you avoid them like the plague and dont actually run into them too often. I always get the feeling your a little isolated and mostly by choice. But the fact is Pawlenty has won twice has a 48% approval rating and the DFL got skunked in their budget efforts. Well, see what happens, but I wouldnt take it to the bank that you’ve seen the last of TPaw in MN. Franken barely beat Coleman. That should tell you TPaw still has a pretty good chance of being elected to a thrid term. This whole “The DFL will rise again” is being overplayed. Over ride a veto first. Lets start there.
Deacon:
I am a guy who thought it was great in 1980 that the Republicans were going to nominate Ronald Reagan instead of Gerald Ford against Jimmy Carter.
Still, after watching politics for a few decades, I have noticed that there are ebbs and flows in political thought and perceptions. The tide in politics is very much flowing against the hard core right and Republicans in general. Events (like 9/11 was) can be a game changer; but, for now, the landscape is as good as it has been in a generation for the progressive cause. Events will change that; but until they do…
“Events (like 9/11 was) can be a game changer; but, for now, the landscape is as good as it has been in a generation for the progressive cause.”
I still think you’re underestimating Pawlenty’s ability to get elected and the DFLs overall popularity and competence. Franken beat Coleman by barly 350 votes, and in the middle of a progressive title wave. I think you’ve started counting chickens to early. There are still a few eggs that need hatching.
Did you get out?
No stayed home and finished up a bunch of projects so I can have the rest of the summer off!!
tidal wave, too, barely….
My spelling needs work
No one here sweats misspelling until a chronic mispeller tries to go all english major on someone else.
Pawlenty protected his beloved high wage earners above all else in his latest irresponsible “conservative” non-negotiable grandstanding. That’s the group he decided to go to the mat for, the group who did the best under the tax cuts and the last 8 years. They need even more help and protection, of course.
Public Finance 101 is that a state should fix an income tax rate and basically stick with it. Thus the state would then build up surpluses during good times to use during the deficits of bad times so that everything doesn’t need to be cut in a (the inevitable) recession.
But what boneheaded MN “conservatives” (with Ventura) pulled was tax “rebates” and cuts when surpluses were projected, and then big cuts to gub’mint during the (inevitable) bad times when tax increases are most burdensome.
Plus Pawlenty (as usual) has refused to fix the (now structural) budget deficit and instead hopes to engineer even more budget cuts in future as the (Pawlenty created) gub’mint crises roll on annually. This is creation of “smaller gub’mint” by intentional crisis.
And the Dems and our corporate press either can’t explain this (or won’t) to the ill-informed voters, many of whom can’t figure out why things have seemingly gotten out of control.
Pawlenty is MN’s first “conservative” extremist governor, and we now have a throughly dysfunctional state government. This isn’t a coincidence, Minnesota.
In the ’06 election, TPaw won 46.7% of the vote, Hatch 45.7%, Hutchinson 6.4%. TPaw won by 1 percentage point. You’d have to agree Hutchinson’s 6.4% was crucial. I havn’t found anything yet as to what made up Hutchinsons vote, however he came from the DFL originally, as did Tim Penny, so I’m having a hard time believing either candidate garnered much in the way of GOP defection vote. But I can’t prove it.
I’ll keep looking…and if anyone out there has a handle on this, please sing out.
No one here sweats misspelling until a chronic mispeller tries to go all english major on someone else.
Your sooo bad an spellur.
“My spelling needs work”
“My work needs spelling.”
-Japanese auto worker.
“No one here sweats misspelling until a chronic mispeller tries to go all english major on someone else.”
I will work for a check.
I will spell for a check,
As I check my spelling.
I will work for food.
I will work for a spell,
Then I will feed for a spell.
“God bless the 3rd parties. As soon as the two party system is destroyed the better.”
Y2K saw the nadir of the two party system.
“President Obama’s energy adviser has suggested all the world’s roofs should be painted white as part of efforts to slow global warming.â€
Just in case there is such a thing as global warming? In the sun belt many roofs are already white to reduce cooling costs. In snow country we might have to rake the roofs more often and maybe build them stouter to support a greater ice and snow load. Hmmmmmm.
But if the “roof of the world,” i.e. the Himalayas, are no longer snow capped we’ll be begging for ice cubes in Hell.
“No one in the DFL can match Pawlenty’s charisma and personal appeal.”
If you say so. Not my gut reaction.
“SgtP, watch Rep. Paul Thissen. I’ve heard him speak. Very good. Very smart.”
I’ve never heard Thissen speak. ’89 Harvard graduate with honors, University of Chicago Law School editor of Law Review and ’92 graduate, shot hoops with Obama. Good cred for a Liberal or guilt by association, take your pick.
I was initially sceptical because he looks like just another handsome blond Minnesota guy. How can he swim with the sharks? we’ll see.
“If the DFL had unquestioned and complete support state wide this wouldn’t be an issue.”
I agree with Mark on this one. At family get togethers I can sample opinions from several Minnesota counties and I’m surprised the DFL has even the support it does given the lack of a figure unifying town and country.
“Maybe he’s not as unpopular as you think he is? If the DFL had unquestioned and complete support state wide this wouldn’t be an issue.”
I have to agree. At family gatherings I can do a sample opinion poll of several MN counties, and I’m surprised the DFL has even the support it gets. What they lack is a unifying figure who unites town and country.
parthian says:
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:39 am
Once a brain stops functioning, it usually can’t be restarted. 6DJ is Exhibit A.
For the denialist irrationalists, it’s (debunked) “urban heat islands†and never-before-seen black earth farming, and no reliable temp records except their backyard in Blaine, MN—all with a whole lotta of sand in their eyes, ears and mouths. The fruits of denial.
Hey parth, now that you look like an absolute, total MORON, you have any more great insights to share on global warming?
Gosh, it looks like your guys want to go WHITE! SAY IT AINT SO, Mr Parth.
So which side are you on Mr Smartypants?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHA!
The funniest thing is: decades! before the frauds like James Hansen became media darlings, rural farmers with no more than a 10th grade education were well aware of the sun absorbing effects of their massive fields compared to grasslands.
If one was lucky enough to go detassling (and that is NOT a wrasslin’ match, Mr Parth) in the summer, one got to hear many insights from these farmers who are still lightyears ahead of these climate “geniuses.”
White roofs are the next GW battlefield?
Eat some crow, and enjoy every single bite!
Parth says: Mmmm Mmmm good!
but, for now, the landscape is as good as it has been in a generation for the progressive cause.
Good luck on that one.
The Obama Govt squeeze on secured creditors in Chrysler and GM is chilling. It will ensure a cold, cold market for all future business investments/investors.
Get ready for the mother of all jobless recoveries—once the job loss freefall finally hits bottom.
With this Govt, and our brutal tort system, who will invest?
I predict an UGLY electorate in the next couple cycles as people are unemployed, those working get the tax squeeze, and the welfare armies see their benefits cut or stopped.
This is a perfect storm, and the CA vote was shocking in both its results and its margins of rejection.
And that is a Dem stronghold…….
but, no reason you shouldnt hope!
Anyone see the latest City Pages? Grab it if you’re around it. It has a Michele Bachmann comic strip. I only got to glance at it, but it’s sure to be funny. Read the headlines on the Onion too. Grab that one too while you’re at it.
(I was at work, not very professional to hang out reading magazines…)
6DJ, you’re the absolute moron in the room, as you can’t even understand the point of my prior post—hint: I was not denying that black earth doesn’t absorb all light spectrums.
Now, with that hint, try reading my critique of your latest “farm fields” idiocy again to see if you can possibly understand why your point about farm fields and record temps was so cretinously stupid.
Great absurd hyperbole on the GM bankruptcy as well—yeah, it’ll probably destroy ALL future investment in the American economy, including the stock market.
Sell! Sell Everything, 6DJ!! Your stocks will now be worthless—but so will your cash because of our ballooning debt! You’re doomed! Buy commercial real estate! Become part owner of a Hardee’s or a Country Kitchen in Sauk Rapids! That’s the ticket for an investing genius like you!
“brutal tort system”—yeah, that’s what bringin’ the nation to its knees, in the mind of the AMA, anyway. Great comedy, please keep it coming! Say, how did we ever have not one (but two) investment bubbles in the past decade with that brutal tort system again? (No need to answer….)
Oops, too many negatives spoil the broth.
I was not denying that black earth absorbs all light spectrums, 6DJ. Or that white reflects them.
That’s better.
Would-be assassin Sara Jane Moore says she thought shooting Ford would bring a revolution
Associated Press
Last update: May 28, 2009 – 8:37 AM
“NEW YORK – The woman who fired a gun at President Gerald Ford in 1975 and spent the next 32 years in prison said in an interview Thursday that she believed the country would change only through a violent revolution…
…Moore, who had been loosely associated with leftist groups in California, said she `wasn’t prepared” for the things she learned about the extent of poverty and other problems.
“It was a time that people don’t remember. You know, we had a war … the Vietnam War, you became — I became — immersed in it,” Moore said Thursday.
“We were saying the country needed to change. The only way it was going to change was a violent revolution. I genuinely thought that (shooting Ford) might trigger that new revolution in this country.”
Well, If Dan can continue to pull a 15 year old Gordon Liddy quote out as proof of conservative eliminationist consipiracies, this Lady’s story should qualify as proof of a liberal eliminationist movement considering she actually pulled the trigger.
I’m with DB on the incompetence of the DFL. Except it’s more like arrogance and hubris. Given Pawlenty’s approval numbers in 2006, the DFL should have cleaned his clock. Instead, they put up the King of the Schmucks, Mike Hatch, who quite beautifully aided in Pawlenty’s re-election.
If the DFL wants to beat guys like Pawlenty, they need to spend time and money developing actual viable candidates — instead of drawing from the DFL pool of people who have kissed the appropriate amount of a$$ to get a spot.
Seeking a “violent revolution” does not mean physical elimination of the members of a particular group or political faction—which is what Rushbo “jokes” about and his crazies fantasize as they stroke their guns.
“Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.”
Thats the first thing I thought of when I heard about these closing. Thats why you don’t have the government involved in this stuff. True or otherwise this is what happens.
“Seeking a “violent revolution†does not mean physical elimination of the members of a particular group or political faction—which is what Rushbo “jokes†about and his crazies fantasize as they stroke their guns.”
Yeah, violent political revolutions never mean physical elimination of the opposing political group. This liberal revolution this lady was probably more like a big game of capture the flag where the conservatives would have to go on time out once they got tagged. Nice rationalization Parth.
G. Gordon Liddy isn’t the only conservative who likes to make those kinds of statements DB.
“Well, If Dan can continue to pull a 15 year old Gordon Liddy quote out as proof of”
Mark ever try that G.Gordon Liddy “candle” thing?
“G. Gordon Liddy isn’t the only conservative who likes to make those kinds of statements DB.”
Liddy’s 15 year old quote is Dan’s favorite though. His put some miles on that one.
Did Parth actually try and claim that violent revolution doesnt mean the elimination of the “other” group? Was that serious?
Who should the DFL have run if not Hatch, SgtP? He basically lost because he had made too many enemies in the lib’rul wing of the DFL.
Pawlenty’s no great leader, speaker, or anything. He’s never accomplished anything but tax cuts. No vision, no goals, just annual crisis after crisis.
He’s the approved “conservative” and the Right Wing Noise Machine, corporate press and conservative movement did the rest. Add in an “independent” third party for right-leaning folks who dislike the extremism of the Repubs but won’t vote for the “lib’rul” Dems and that’s a foolproof recipe for a 45% Repub extremist governor like Pawlenty.
It should keep working for quite a while, while the state sinks into failure and low service status, which is what these “conservatives” want. Most of these conservative white males (like Pawlenty) had great state services and benefits while growing up, yet somehow imagine they “did it all on their own!” Selfish pr*cks.
“Seeking a “violent revolution†does not mean physical elimination of the members of a particular group or political faction…”
Would you consider President Ford to have been a member of a particular group or political faction when this lady tried to eliminate him as the opening salvo in a violent revolution?
I don’t understand the hand-wringing about TP’s “no new taxes” stance.
If I have it right, the amount of the deficit is about 5% of the state budget. I don’t know a single family that has not had to cut back at least that much at the present time.
I also believe that the impasse at the legislature had really nothing to do with the deficit and everything to do with the dem determination to FORCE TP to endorse a tax increase, come hell or high water.
It is also my impression that there is no law that prevents those who believe the state should have more money — including more or THEIR money — from sending additional funds to St. Paul.
I doubt, however, that any of those persons will do so, any more than they did under Jesse.
In the meantime, dire predictions notwithstanding, the sky will not fall, the world will not starve, and poor health will not cause the corpses to line the streets.
Dem city and county governments will jack up property taxes rather than cut favorite programs and bloated staffs and blame the gov, and some seniors will be forced from their homes.
But, outrageous as it may seem to those who love to tax (someone else) the citizens of Minnesota will survive not being burdened with yet more tax burden from the state. And so will the governor.
“Who should the DFL have run if not Hatch, SgtP? He basically lost because he had made too many enemies in the lib’rul wing of the DFL.”
Anyone want to blame that on Penny or Hutchinson? The DFL is a joke. They couldnt beat the special olympics T Ball team in an election for Gov. How long has it been, since Rudy? My god.
“Most of these conservative white males (like Pawlenty) had great state services and benefits while growing up, yet somehow imagine they “did it all on their own!†Selfish pr*cks.”
Im all for helping people who want to help themselves. Schools, higher ed, job training…. Im not interested in helping the lazy hopeless. Ive seen a few lazy white males hanging out downtown during the day doing jack sh:t. I dont go to work to pay taxes for those types. Working single mom going to night school? Ill pay more taxes to help her out.
Yes, try reading Moore’s quote again and see where she says anything about Repubs or conservatives or even “the opposing political group”. She’s also not very specific about what she wants others to do in her revolution, but she doesn’t advocate that others kill anyone.
You might be aware that the Congress was controlled by lib’rul Dems in 1975. Supposedly they’d also be part of the “opposing group” overthrown by Moore’s hoped for revolution. You are a real sucker for false equivalencies.
“Yes, try reading Moore’s quote again and see where she says anything about Repubs or conservatives or even “the opposing political groupâ€.”
Parth, she took a shot at the REPUBLICAN president Ford to start a revolution after being associated with LEFTIST groups.
“She’s also not very specific about what she wants others to do in her revolution, but she doesn’t advocate that others kill anyone.”
She wanted to start a paddy cake revolution.
“Supposedly they’d also be part of the “opposing group†overthrown by Moore’s hoped for revolution.”
She didnt shoot at any DEMS did she? She was a LEFTIST, who took a shot at her opposing group’s leader.
Was Lee a big rightwinger?
Leon Czolgosz another big rightwing killer?
I believe Lee was a Communist.
“I believe Lee was a Communist.”
So a democrat by today’s standards?
“They couldnt beat the special olympics T Ball team in an election for Gov. How long has it been, since Rudy? My god.”
Or bowling……..
“What they lack is a unifying figure who unites town and country.”
They do, but he’s only accessible with a shovel.
“They do, but he’s only accessible with a shovel.”
Orville Freeman? Rudy Perpich?
You know its only been 18 years since the DFL has had the Governors Office. These 3rd parties are really a nusance. 18 years of bad luck is a long time. I wonder how much longer the DFL can get away with blaming other people for their problems?
I guess its true that DEMS (Liberals) are more comfortable blaming others for their problems. No wonder they hate the Independence party so much.
“Anyone want to blame that on Penny or Hutchinson? The DFL is a joke.”
Right, Deacon. Let’s see, they control the MN legislature, have one Senator-and probably will have the other as well-and have 5 of 8 house of Rep seats. But they lost the gubernatorial race by one percentage point, so they’re losers. And that race was influenced by former DFLers Penny and Hutchinson, like it or not.
By the way, Deacon, who sat in the governors chair between TPaw and Rudy?
Arnie-who started out as a GOPer and ended as an independent and Jessie, another independent.
It’s obvious the third party influence in recent MN gubernatorial politics is a myth, isn’t it?
“Let’s see, they control the MN legislature, have one Senator-and probably will have the other as well-and have 5 of 8 house of Rep seats.”
And with all this and the DFL’s proud history they cant seem to break into the Governors Office in 18 years. They need to quit b:tching or else get busy finding that last 1%.
“But they lost the gubernatorial race by one percentage point, so they’re losers.”
They certainly act like it. I see this kind of behavior when I coach baseball. Its usually when a kid cries about being called out on a 3rd strike over the plate and blames his “bad luck” on the ump. Try swinging.
“It’s obvious the third party influence in recent MN gubernatorial politics is a myth, isn’t it?”
Its an excuse plain and simple. Retool the brand and message and find the 1% your missing.
“Let’s see, they control the MN legislature, have one Senator-and probably will have the other as well-and have 5 of 8 house of Rep seats.”
And with all this and the DFL’s proud history they cant seem to break into the Governors Office in 18 years. They need to quit b:tching or else get busy finding that last 1%.
“But they lost the gubernatorial race by one percentage point, so they’re losers.”
They certainly act like it. I see this kind of behavior when I coach baseball. Its usually when a kid cries about being called out on a 3rd strike over the plate and blames his “bad luck” on the ump. Try swinging.
“It’s obvious the third party influence in recent MN gubernatorial politics is a myth, isn’t it?”
Its an excuse plain and simple. Retool the brand and message and find the 1% your missing.
“No wonder they hate the Independence party so much.”
Who hates the Independence Party? I consider myself liberal and I don’t. In fact, I voted for Tim Penny and Jessie.
If you want to ingore their influence in MN politics, that’s your problem.
“If you want to ingore their influence in MN politics, that’s your problem”
If you want to focus on the minutia insted of the real reasons they cant win, go ahead.
“They need to quit b:tching”
Who’s b:tching? There may be some DFL hardcores out there crying in their beer about the IP, but I’m not one of ‘em. The last election is what it is. As you and Sarge say, if they would quit putting up jerks like Hatch, they would find that 1%.
“Its an excuse plain and simple.”
Perhaps. And perhaps it’s an honest assessment of the political landscape. Depends on your point of view, I guess.
“Seeking a “violent revolution†does not mean physical elimination of the members of a particular group or political faction—which is what Rushbo “jokes†about and his crazies fantasize as they stroke their guns.”
Sara Jane Moore pointed a .45 at the U.S. president, and pulled the trigger.
She missed (liberals don’t know which end of the gun to point at the target), so the act wasn’t nearly quite as heinious as Rush’s guest host repeating a joke.
“If you want to focus on the minutia insted of the real reasons they cant win, go ahead.”
Yes, yes, Deacon, you’re right. I see it now, there’s only one way to look at this situation, and obviously, you have it nailed.
(liberals don’t know which end of the gun to point at the target)
Just Kidding, Sarge 
“Who hates the Independence Party?”
Any liberal or democrat who blames them for not being in the Govs. Mansion.
Orville Freeman? Rudy Perpich?
Wellstone, A national pol, but THE saint of Minnesota Democrats.
“Yes, yes, Deacon, you’re right. I see it now, there’s only one way to look at this situation, and obviously, you have it nailed.”
Right back at’cha Monty. I suppose I should get on the blame train to b:tchville and cry on my ballot instead of retooling my message or finding that young fresh face to run and finding the votes I need. DEMS tend to be more comfortable pointing out how they’ve been wronged. I cant believe they havent gotten into the Govs mansion in 18 years. Its a joke when you look at the state’s other high office holders and political fundementals. If the IP is the reason some people want to focus on they are barking up the wrong tree.
“There may be some DFL hardcores out there crying in their beer about the IP, but I’m not one of ‘em.”
Then Im not talking to or about you.
I was not denying that black earth absorbs all light spectrums, 6DJ. Or that white reflects them.
So technically, we can help the environment by preventing all those dark skinned Mexicans and Somalians from coming to Minnesota, and having anchor babies.
D2 could be gloating right now, had he not declared global warming to be a hoax.
DB, the kind of leftists that Moore represented had no place in the Democratic party. There’s this mythology out there that these violent extremists of the 60s and 70s were liberal democrats. Hogwash. That’s like saying the KKK are just right-wing members of the GOP. But yet, we assume that Moore was a liberal who was opposed to Republicans. Most of those radicals hated the Democrats as much as the Republicans. They probably would have been gunning for Carter too, except most of them were either reformed or in jail by the time he got elected.
——-
Parth, Hatch lost because he made stupid, sexist comments the day before the election. I don’t know who they should have run, but the fact that an angry, hateful loose cannon like Hatch got the nomination indicates that there’s something wrong with the their long-term strategy. He should have been put out to pasture years ago.
(liberals don’t know which end of the gun to point at the target)
Just Kidding, Sarge
Thank you. I think gun-loving liberals like myself need to be considered an protected class.
But I’d also like to point out that liberals don’t believe in a violent overthrow of the US government — unlike the teabaggers.
Can you imagine if a liberal governor had mildly suggested seceeding while Bush was in office?
“Wellstone, A national pol, but THE saint of Minnesota Democrats.”
Anybody here seen my old friend Paul?
Can you tell me where he’s gone?
He freed a lot of people,
But it seems the good they die young.
I just looked around and he’s gone.
With Abraham, Martin and Johnnnnnnnnnn and Paul tooooooooooooo.
“With Abraham, Martin and Johnnnnnnnnnn and Paul tooooooooooooo.”
Everybody get their Bic’s out!
Anybody here seen my old friend Adolf?
Can you imagine if a liberal governor had mildly suggested seceeding while Bush was in office
He would have gotten the same attention from the right as it gets from the left today.
parthian says:
May 28th, 2009 at 7:11 am
6DJ, you’re the absolute moron in the room, as you can’t even understand the point of my prior post—hint: I was not denying that black earth doesn’t absorb all light spectrums.
Now, with that hint, try reading my critique of your latest “farm fields†idiocy again to see if you can possibly understand why your point about farm fields and record temps was so cretinously stupid.
DANGER PARTH DANGER
Your attempt to backpedal while spinning furiously is dangerous! You will fall and whack your head requiring stitches. Maybe it already happened as your feeble response is laughable…..
How lame? Pretty lame there, Parthy boy.
And if it means I am “stupid” to think the thousands of acres of black farm fields around i.e. Granite Falls might INDEED impact a daily high temperature on an April/May/June day (hint: da sun is strong in da N lats), then so be it……
I, however, think you are the dork, and obviously your guys in government agree with me as they boast about the enormous! benefits of going to a reflective white surfaces.
Do you know, Parth, that some cretinously stupid people in MN choose asphalt over concrete for their driveways because they allege it “helps” in winter? Helps how, puzzles the might Parth?????
Parth concludes:
I bet they got their feeble science education at Mpls North!
” If the IP is the reason some people want to focus on they are barking up the wrong tree.”
It’s one factor among many, Deacon. Poor candidates, mixed messages and voter defections, it all adds up to another loss in the race for the governors mansion.
If the DFL ever wants to win that race, it’s another factor to take into account.
Tiny you need to change your name to BIG SUCKER. I saw where you got the copy and paste about the car dealerships. There is no evidence other than the fact that some of the 700+ dealerships being closed are owned by people who contributed to the GOP. I would expect any random sample of 700 business owners to include a couple of GOP contributers, wouldn’t you? MORON?
And, BTW, isnt using cretin, akin to making fun of Special Olympian types?
I know it is fine with Parth, and his hero Obama, but I must say that I do disapprove.
Oh well, typical lefties—
…do what I say, not what I do…….
i.e.
lets fly to IA for earth day, rip the special needs, etc
SgtPendleton the point was and you see I said “True or otherwise” was this is what happens when government owns or plays apart in any business.
But see you didn’t read it like that. You read it as if I was an idiot like you. You know there is always a political connection to everything idiot.
So read the post next time or better yet don’t read my post.
“Thats the first thing I thought of when I heard about these closing.”
Riiiiiiiight. You’re so full of sh1t Tiny, your breath probably smells like diapers.
Take your medicine and STFU.
NEXT
“DEMS tend to be more comfortable pointing out how they’ve been wronged.”
PEOPLE tend to be more comfotable pointing out how they’ve been wronged.
There, fixed it.
Thank you. I think gun-loving liberals like myself need to be considered an protected class.
Every time I discuss immigration or abortion on firingline.com, I get labeled a left wing wacko, and as a result, I support gun control.
I tell them “but I think you should be able to buy a belt fed machine gun at Target”, but it gets me nowhere.
Every time I discuss gun control on MediaMatters, I get labeled a right wing wacko, and as a result, the Turner Diaries is my bible. I tell them “I’ve never read the Turner Diaries, but I’m pretty sure I’m represented as one of the bad guys in the book”, but it gets me nowhere.
Getting both to understand the concept of the gun-loving liberal is as challenging as getting my cat to understand quantum physics.
I also wrote the NRA recently with the suggestion that their constant references to “our values” (with links to sites that show “their values”, that don’t mention gun control) alienates a lot of liberal and moderate gun owners.
I never did get a reply.
“Hatch lost because he made stupid, sexist comments the day before the election”
Don’t forget Judi Dutcher’s little E85 “moment”.
“PEOPLE tend to be more comfotable pointing out how they’ve been wronged.
There, fixed it.”
What I said is true. DEMS like to blame. DEMS are people too.
“DEMS like to blame.”
Oh, and the GOP doesn’t. Give it up, Deacon, it’s not party specific.
But I like the DEMS are people too thing, although Ann Coulter might want to take issue with that.
You must be Irish. You love to argue, and you always have to get in the last word.
Just like me…
SgtP, Hatch ran as the “moderate” Dem who refused to sign onto the further left social measures. He was also the only statewide DFL office holder, so he was a logical pick despite his flaws.
And if he lost because of the absurd Dutcher/press “scandal” of the last 2 days of the race, anyone who would change their vote over that is a lamebrain.
The DFL picked the more “moderate” candidate to run in 2006—it’s one of the reasons some idiot urban lib’ruls voted for Hutchinson! Thus, they gave us another four years of Pawlenty-manufactured crisis.
In our politics, the presence of a third party basically bleeds off just enough centrist voters that the conservative extremist gets elected. And it seems that most third party supporters are OK with that, although Hutchinson got only 6% or so last time. Repubs are certainly OK with that!
Ultimately one must get the most votes and not blame third parties, I certainly agree with that. And if third partyers are happy to both lose the election AND deliver it to the conservative extremist Repub whose goal is to blow up state gub’mint, well that’s their right and decision.
I’m no great defender of the MN DFL leadership. MN seems to have stopped producing superior politicians, and is a graveyard of losers—that basically goes for all the parties.
Once one decides that old veterans who have tons of actual experience are not good enough (like Roger Moe, who would have been a fine guv), then we are basically stuck with the midget extremists (like Pawlenty) and game playing freaks (like Ventura).
The state is doomed to decline at this point anyway. Sorry kids, your parents are cretins.
“Oh, and the GOP doesn’t.”
Did I say that? Look at them today, its blame blame blame. At least nationally. Im talking about the DFL only. Try and stay on topic. If you want to rip the GOP or Pawlenty Id be glad to pile on.
“Give it up, Deacon, it’s not party specific.”
Who said it was? Not me. Saying the DEMS like to blame people for their own mistakes is true. You’re not going to deny that are you? The DEMS should be int he Govs Office and they arent for bigger reasons than the IP. Blaming them is an excuse. Its typical of their behavior to blame someone else. Whats the problem with coming out and saying that?
“And if he lost because of the absurd Dutcher/press “scandal†of the last 2 days of the race, anyone who would change their vote over that is a lamebrain.”
Oh, so now its the voters fault for making up their minds. Like the DFL is preordained by God to have the Govs Office under their banner and its the IP and the voters screwing things up. Some more DFL arrogance I see.
“The DFL picked the more “moderate†candidate to run in 2006—it’s one of the reasons some idiot urban lib’ruls voted for Hutchinson!”
Yeah!! Those idiot voters. Its not the DFLS fault for putting up a moderate.
“Ultimately one must get the most votes and not blame third parties, I certainly agree with that.”
Agreed.
” And if third partyers are happy to both lose the election AND deliver it to the conservative extremist Repub whose goal is to blow up state gub’mint, well that’s their right and decision.”
Im not a follower. I wont vote for someone I dont like out of fear. Ill vote my conscience and do so happily. You go ahead and vote whatever way makes you feel warm and fuzzy. Everyone else votes their interests, Im tired of worrying about how my vote will effect someone other than me. Im done giving my vote away.
“The DEMS should be int he Govs Office and they arent for bigger reasons than the IP. Blaming them is an excuse. Its typical of their behavior to blame someone else. Whats the problem with coming out and saying that?”
Same as saying the IP had no effect on the outcome of the last 2 gubernatorial elections. If you think the split in the liberal vote didn’t benefit TPaw, you’re just being hard headed. It’s not the SOLE reason for the result, but it certainly played a part.
I used to coach grade school basketball. We had a game coming up against St Agnes, so we went to a game to scout them. They had a real good point guard, too good for basic man to man defense. The opposing coach either just didn’t get it or refused to adjust, in any event they stayed in the man to man and this kid ate them alive. The opposing coach could have blamed the loss on that point guard. I would blame the coach for failing to react to the situation that confronted him.
We came up with a 1-3-1 zone for St Agnes and took this kid out of his game. We won easily.
What’s the point? Survey the field. Acknowledge the factors involved. Create a game plan that favors your team in the environment you will be operating in.
I’d say the DFL has done a poor job of this in the race for governor for, as you say, the past 18 years.
“Same as saying the IP had no effect on the outcome of the last 2 gubernatorial elections.”
I never said no effect. Your complaining about the varnish pealing off the deck chairs while the Ship is sinking.
” If you think the split in the liberal vote didn’t benefit TPaw, you’re just being hard headed.”
First, theres no numbers that anyone can show me that breaks down with any degree of accuracy which way IP voters would have voted between Hatch and TPaw so all you have is speculation.
” It’s not the SOLE reason for the result, but it certainly played a part.”
The DFL lost by 1%. Bigger things caused that than the IP. Complaining about the IP at all is sour grapes. The DFL, since they lost, likes to blame the state of MN’s affairs at times on independent voters who are sick of the 2 party system, like they put Tpaw in office. Sorry, that just isnt so. How many people voting IP might not have voted at all? Or voted GOP? Do you even know?
“I’d say the DFL has done a poor job of this in the race for governor for, as you say, the past 18 years.”
I agree. Im blaming the poor coaching and game planning. Others are blaming the PG.
“theres no numbers that anyone can show me that breaks down with any degree of accuracy which way IP voters would have voted between Hatch and TPaw so all you have is speculation.”
Yup, that’s the achilles of my position, as you and CS have pointed out. I am waiting for replies from a couple places as to the IP vote makeup in ’02 and ’06. When I get something, I’ll let ya know.
“The DFL lost by 1%. Bigger things caused that than the IP.”
Like what? I could play the same game you are playing, saying you have no idea what caused that margin or no statistics to back it up. But I won’t. Suffice it to say, what you call a scapegoat, I call a factor.
You say tomaeto, I say tomaato….
“Like what?”
Like Hatch being a pencil kneck.
Tomat-Oh
I also wrote the NRA recently with the suggestion that their constant references to “our values†(with links to sites that show “their valuesâ€, that don’t mention gun control) alienates a lot of liberal and moderate gun owners.
I never did get a reply.
That’s because Wayne LaPierre’s loyalties are as follows:
1. GOP
2. Gun owners
Monty why is the IP the problem and not the GOP? How many people voted DFL in 2002 and GOP in 2006? How many DFL voters got snaked by the GOP?
My bottom line is no one’s vote belongs to one party or another by default. The IP didnt steal anything from the DFL. Its the DFLs responsibility to get the voters attention each election and not sit on their butts and expect they’ll just get the same die hards as always. Thats why its their fault and not the IPs.
I wont deny the IP getting votes was unfortunate for the DFL, but its not the IPs fault, its the DFLs for not staying relevant to the people who jumped ship, if thats even what they did.
“Like Hatch being a pencil kneck.”
Roger that.
Next time the DFL should just put a card board cut out of Rudy perpich and Floyd B Olson up there and see how many votes they get.
Don’t forget Judi Dutcher’s little E85 “momentâ€.
Exactly CS — that was the event that preciptiated Hatch’s stupid comment about how they shouldn’t be picking on a woman just because she didn’t know about Ethanol. If you’re a Dem and you have a GOP candidate pointing out that you’re making sexist comments, something’s not right.
Parth, yes, he was the natural candidate – but he was able to jockey himself into that position. Compare that to Wellstone who just got active and started kicking a$$. I think there are other Wellstones out there – but is there room for them in a party that allows a bully like Hatch to get the nomination for governor?
Hatch was a jerk who shrewdly developed his alliances and floated to the top. The DFL needs to foster new leaders – instead apparatchiks focused on a$$ kissing.
“Hatch was a jerk who shrewdly developed his alliances and floated to the top.”
It only took what, 26 years? He was a Perpich guy and then tried to take his mentor on in the primary in ’80? What a pompus @ss. Wait your damn turn you Eff Head.
“Monty why is the IP the problem and not the GOP?”
The IP was A factor in the overall equation, not THE factor that gave the election to TPaw. There’s a difference in emphasis there that you’re either refusing to acknowledge or ignoring.
“My bottom line is no one’s vote belongs to one party or another by default.”
Agreed. Some people vote a party line, some don’t. There are polls that try to track these things, but who knows how reliable they are. The point is, the political situation is fluid, no party operates in a vacuum. To say the IP candidates, who had a DFL backround, had no influence people who traditionally have vote DFL seems a little simple minded to me. And, given that DFL backround, it seems reasonable that they would exert more influence on a liberal mindset than on a conservative mindset.
“I wont deny the IP getting votes was unfortunate for the DFL, but its not the IPs fault, its the DFLs for not staying relevant to the people who jumped ship, if thats even what they did.”
Again, agreed. I’m not blaming the IP for the DFL’s problems. Their problems began which their choice of candidates and went on from there. At the same time, the Ip wasn’t irrelevant to the outcome of the election. Heck, I’m sure part of their gameplan was to encourage DFL crossover. The fact that the DFL was vulnerable to this strategy points out the weakness of the DFL campaign.
“There’s a difference in emphasis there that you’re either refusing to acknowledge or ignoring.”
Its so far down on my list thats its bordering on irrelevant. Hatch being a distasteful candidate is #1.
Im just not able to place blame on a group of people who argued their position better than the DFL did and blame them for the GOP being in office. Its like saying, “its your fault you didnt like my argument and now TPaw is governor.”
That argument just doens hold for me regardless of the percentage you want to place on it.
“To say the IP candidates, who had a DFL backround, had no influence people who traditionally have vote DFL seems a little simple minded to me. ”
Sure. But its not the IPs fault TPaw got elected, not even a little. Like their not a team player and no Capt. Bozo is governor? They have a right to make their argument and they did. People voted for them. If the DFL lost votes thats THEIR fault entirely.
” And, given that DFL backround, it seems reasonable that they would exert more influence on a liberal mindset than on a conservative mindset.”
But what does that mean in a fluid politcal environment? Especially when you are dealing with party liniers? Nothing thats what. Party liners will do what they do, vote the party line. A former DFLer that left and went IP wasnt a party liner to start and no party line voters went with. The ones that voted for the IP would have been independent from the start and if the DFL counted them in their column before the election and want to cry about it now its THEIR fault not the IP.
“The fact that the DFL was vulnerable to this strategy points out the weakness of the DFL campaign. ”
Exactly.
“no Capt. Bozo”
NOW Capt. Bozo….
““Thats the first thing I thought of when I heard about these closing.”
Yes the first thing I thought of was “Somebody will claim”
Tiny, would you ever give ME the benefit of the doubt if I made a post like that? No way.
“Tiny, would you ever give ME the benefit of the doubt if I made a post like that?”
No
“Monty why is the IP the problem and not the GOP?”
The problem is Dearth Pawlenty builds upon IP precedent (i.e.”My way or the Ventura Highway.”)
Wellstone, A national pol, but THE saint of Minnesota Democrats
Cremated, then interred?
“Wellstone, A national pol, but THE saint of Minnesota Democrats”
Cremated, then interred?
“That’s because Wayne LaPierre’s loyalties are as follows:
1. GOP
2. Gun owners ”
Don’t alot of returning vets acquire the same weapons they’re familar with after (or prior to when) they muster out? I find that understandable. Without their fellow soldiers their most trusted friend in the world might be that gun. What I don’t understand is why anyone would therefore assume that the majority of these guys are Republican in their politics.
“The problem is Dearth Pawlenty builds upon IP precedent (i.e.â€My way or the Ventura Highway.â€)”
No the problem is both sides are that way. The Dem’s knew from the first minute they came up with that budget that T-Paw would veto it.
“And if he lost because of the absurd Dutcher/press “scandal†of the last 2 days of the race, anyone who would change their vote over that is a lamebrain.â€
Not merely that one, but any scandal mongering involving Hatch’s family. Any gaffes made, or bad picture taken of either member of the DFL ticket was distorted and cartooned in such a way as to poison the election climate and make the Dem’s appear weak and vulnerable.
Imagine what the Dem’s could have done prior to Franken’s apparent election victory with a large negative lampooning initiative about Norm Coleman’s father. Well if you aren’t familiar with that scandal it’s because the Franken campaign didn’t take the low road.
I doubt the “MN Democrats Exposed” blog or the “Swiftboat Veterans for Truth” PAC would have had such scruples given the same ammo to use. But then Democrats are either ridiculed by their opponents for failures to hold to a higher standard of civility or else politically victimized when they do.
“I doubt the “MN Democrats Exposed†blog or the “Swiftboat Veterans for Truth†PAC would have had such scruples given the same ammo to use. But then Democrats are either ridiculed by their opponents for failures to hold to a higher standard of civility or else politically victimized when they do.”
With all due respect, that may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.
With all due respect
What a great phrase. That could mean “no respect”.
Lots of bluster here about Dems vs Repubs vs Independents.
But no-one seems to consider that maybe — just maybe — Pawlenty won because people like him:
He says what he means and means what he says; he is a shrewd politician who has his finger on the pulse of the majority of Minnesotans; his language is clear and understandable to the average person.
That is a formula for electoral success no matter the prevailing party climate.
TPaw has his finger on the pulse of 45-47% of Minnesotans, at least. If you want to call that a majority, so be it. Here’s a look at the past 2 election returns:
2002 MN Governors Race Results
Tim Pawlenty GOP 993,168 votes – 45 percent
Roger Moe DEM 811,322 votes – 36 percent
Tim Penny IP 362,107 – 16 percent
2006 MN Governors Race Results
Tim Pawlenty GOP 1,028,568 46.7 percent
Mike Hatch DFL 1,007,460 45.7 percent
Peter Hutchinson 141,735 6.4 percent
If you look at the difference in the IPs tally between the two elections, and compare that to the DFLs gain in those elections, you could reasonably assert the IPs loss was, in large part, the DFLs gain.
I still have no data as to the IP voter makeup, however, so just where that 6.4% comes from is still specualtion. But the numbers cited above are telling, eh?
Adlib wrote: “Don’t alot of returning vets acquire the same weapons they’re familar with after (or prior to when) they muster out?”
The M-16/M-4 (.223 remington) style of rifle is a fairly complex design compared to other firearms — so if you can take one apart and put it back together, just about any other gun you buy is a piece of cake. Something like an AK-47 or a bolt action hunting rifle are simple in comparison.
Also, just to get close to what the military provides its soldiers, you’d spend upwards of $2000. I think most vets would rather spend that money on other things. My buddy got out of the Rangers and bought a Springfield .45 auto, a Benelli shotgun, and a really nice Remington 700 bolt-action rifle — all brand new for less than $2000 — he can hunt with two of those guns (technically all three) — whereas an M-16 or M-4 shoots basically a .223 Remington, which is not powerful enough to hunt big game.
The don’t give out old weapons like they did in the old days, and they don’t usually let vets bring back firearm souvenirs (most AKs floating around in the world would require a special license to own in the US). However, you’re right in that military folks who become comfortable with firearms aren’t afraid to own and use them — and they’re made up of all political stripes.
Kind of a long way to say not all gun owners are fond of the NRA.
Re. “With all due respect,”
DJ says: What a great phrase. That could mean “no respectâ€.
Ironically this is true.
If you’re previously unfamiliar with this commonplace nicety of legalspeak. it could mean “with respect due to the speaker but with less respect for the idea” or else it could mean “with little or no respect for either speaker or idea.” Intent is ambiguous.
Since you fancy the
Phrase maybe when you use it you will mean… “No offense, but you’re so dumb you wouldn’t recognize an insult if it slapped you in the face.”
“TPaw has his finger on the pulse of 45-47% of Minnesotans…”
The ones that have health insurance that is.
Great segue to the current thread, which is on life support and needs serious attention.
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