Obama’s Shout-out to Anna from Minneapolis
May 28th, 2009 – 4:46 PM by Kevin DiazÂ
President Obama, in a conference call with volunteers and supporters Thursday, gave a special shout-out to a Minnesota supporter of his new health care initiative.
The thank-you, a transcript of which was distributed by the Democratic National Committee, went like this:
“Millions of Americans have lost their healthcare. And I’ve heard these stories from many of you, who have, either in email or other forms, told us what’s happening in your lives…
People like Anna Peters in Minneapolis. She wrote to OFA (Organizing for America) about her mother in law Lynn. Lynn and her husband Jack worked hard, they saved diligently, they built a solid nest-egg, but when Jack passed away and Lynn suffered a stroke, Anna tells they had no choice but to dig into Lynn’s savings. And at this point Anna’s fighting daily against insurance coverage that’s threatening to cut of her health insurance and watching their life savings dissipate just on healthcare costs.â€
254 Responses to "Obama’s Shout-out to Anna from Minneapolis"
Wow,
The BQ must be trying to compete with Katherine Kerstine in the number of posts now that she’s back. Just a few weeks ago Big Question didn’t update for over a month.
I think Obama should give a “Shout Out” to trial lawyers to quit driving up health care costs.
I like the extra threads!
It allows me to poke balloonhead Parth in the eye again, and again, and again
:O)
Hey Parth, did you miss CBS?
Bill Nye says the black surfaces do heat up cities:
NYE: The building doesn’t get as hot so you don’t need to run the air conditioner nearly as long. So if you do that-
KAUFFMAN: If it’s white.
NYE: -everywhere. If it’s light.
KAUFFMAN: Here’s a shining example, the white-painted villages in Greece. Turns out they were ahead of their time. Energy Secretary Steven Chu says if all rooftops and roads in the world were made white it could combat global warming.
STEVEN CHU: That would be the equivalent as if you took off all the automobiles of the world for eleven years.
KAUFFMAN: Think of it this way, every year you would keep out of the atmosphere 2.4 billion tons of carbon dioxide or the emissions produced by 60 million cars. There’d be even more savings if roads and parking lots were not covered in black asphalt.
NYE: So the same needle says just 2 ½.
KAUFFMAN: Which means what?
NYE: Which means it’s ABSORBING more heat, keeping the city WARMER. It’s squandering billions of tons of carbon dioxide every year.
Gosh, who is smarter, the science guy, or Parth, lord of his basement?
Hmmm.
Who would I choose.
Hmmm.
I can only laugh at Parth’s bad luck with his insulting ruminations last weekend, only days before the :white surface” debate busts loose on the national stage, by HIS guys!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
teehee!
D2:
The healthcare debate is a money pit of epic proportions. I dont even get why it’s called health “insurance,” when it is really more like a debit card.
I agree, the lawyers like Obama and hilary are clueless about reigning in costs: it can only be done thru major reductions in utilization……
and yes,
major!, earthshaking! tort reform is the ONLY way that has a chance of happening.
Even with that, with an aging society that is obese and sedentary, will costs do anything other than explode?
I think not……..
D2:
Did you see the Ritchie lawsuit today?
And his defense is: we are supposed to feel good the discrepancy is only 30,000 votes? And like every registered voter casts a ballot, too.
)
There must be a ton of false votes cast every election, but with no ID required how is it ever going to be caught?
Kind of like the illegal downloading of music, anonymous, and almost impossible to police……
Quite a story!
Jim,
I’m glad there is a lawsuit against Ritchie. He seems to think his job is to ensure the liberal democrat wins at any cost.
It’s rally ashame that liberals reject the common sense idea of requiring ID’s at the polls, especially with ACORN around trying to commit democrat vote fraud, and millions of illegal aliens wanting the chance to elect pro-amnesty wealth redistributing leftists.
Well, I’m glad to see my little insults so got your goat, 6DJ, HAHAHAHA!
I’m also glad to see that you’ve learned about the radiance properties of surface color, that’s basic physics knowledge that you seem astounded by. They didn’t cover that at your suburban high school, eh? Next you can try to figure out why the reduction of snow and sea ice in the Arctic warms the oceans even more!
It also appears that you now must agree that global warming caused by an increasing layer of insulating CO2 exists, because that’s why these scientists are advocating an increase in white surfaces, to reduce the amount of solar radiance absorbed by the earth. Pity that the greatest albedo effect is from the polar snow and ice regions, which are now melting because of CO2 from fossil fuel burning.
Anyway, increasing white reflective surfaces are actions that should have been started a decade ago by our government to combat global warming, but cretinous conservative denialists (like you!) vehemently opposed any rational response to the clear evidence of fossil fuel generated global warming.
And if you think that Chu is arguing that it’s an increase in black surfaces on earth or the “urban heat island” effect which is the actual cause of the current global warming, you’re a fool.
I note that the CBS report is highly misleading as it is seemingly saying that increasing albedo “would keep out of the atmosphere 2.4 billion tons of CO2″, which it certainly doesn’t. It is an attempt to offset the warming effects of our fossil fuel CO2 pollution, but it doesn’t do a thing to eradicate it or reduce it. Sloppy word usage, or an attempt by the corporate press to lead people to think that can still burn all the fossil fuel they want, if they just paint more things white.
And you never will understand your hilarious illogic about the tilled farm fields of Granite Falls and the record temps in May 2009. Oh well, at least the new administration has got you learning about (minor) steps to combat global warming! Baby steps, but baby steps for a conservative are the hardest ones!
Hey Jim, can you expound on the connection between “major reductions in utilization” and “major!, eathshaking! tort reform” as far as health care costs are concerned? I just don’t see how people accessing our health care system relates to liability lawsuits. Both generate costs, of course, but I really don’t see how limiting liability lawsuits with result in major reductions in health care utilization.
You know we really have to get away from these individual hardship stories deciding and framing our policies. I understand, but individual hardship…you can find that any day of the week, anytime in good times or bad.
Its this if you vote against more special ed education money you are against “Timmy” having a fulfilling life thing.
Big Picture, a little background. Maybe a broader perspective. This media is killin’ us…
And D2, please don’t ever change. The farther you go out into right field, the funnier your posts become to me. I may not agree with your politics but I salute your sincerity and consistency.
Looks like the GOoP plans to play Good Cop/Bad Cop on Sotomayor.
Texas GOoP senator Corndog has now declared that screams of “She’s Racist!” from conservative ringmasters Rushbo and Newt are “terrible” and “wrong” and pointed out that they are not elected Repub officials.
Guess the GOoP will try to have it both ways: cries of “Sonia the racist!” for the conservative white pinheads in Fox-Rushbo Land and more temperate language from the august GOoP senators concerned about ever getting a single latino vote again.
What a party of clowns.
“What a party of clowns.”
So I wonder who the clowns where the last two times.
parthian you need to go back and see how this game is played buddy. Have you thrown away your notes from the last 8 years. Honest to god!
I could careless. She replaces the same and Ginsburg will be replaced by the same. Its the ones after that or a surprise death.
But hey I’m a Clown
ttp://blog.bicyclism.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/smoking-bozo.jpg
I remember the last two times very well, tiny.
With the obviously extremist Roberts it was a love fest. He told them nothing and the Dems didn’t care. He just blathered on about past cases and lied about how much of an activist extremist judge he was. Please tell me what slanders he had to endure.
Alito was challenged about joining some Princeton alumni group that seemed not too happy about admitting women and minorities to their beloved university.
Nor was there a 24/7 Noise Machine declaring either of them to be “Racists!!” a day after they were nominated. Other than that, it’s exactly the same!
But I agree that she isn’t a game changer on the Court, you’re right.
It never ceases to amaze me at how much disinformation comes out when right wingers begin to talk about health care. They short of remind me of the bolsheviks.
But, it is all because all those children, single moms and widows are so undeserving.
The biggest fear of the mindless right is that not only will President Obama get a national health care plan enacted; but, like all other industrialized countries, when the public actually experiences what it is like to remove the worry of any American that he will lose his health care — average Americans and businesses will like it.
Actually dumb@ss, John Roberts was confirmed 78-22. I’ll do the math for you — it means that only 22 of the Senate’s 44 Democrats voted against him. And if you look at the history of the supreme court — THIS is how the game is played in most nominations.
Lots of GOoPers still hold a grudge against the democrats for shooting down Robert Bork’s nomination 20 years ago.
when the public actually experiences what it is like to remove the worry of any American that he will lose his health care — average Americans and businesses will like it.
…and maybe we can stop losing manufacturing jobs to Canada.
A man aged 29 has fathered 21 children with 11 different women, it emerged yesterday.
Desmond Hatchett’s brood came to light after authorities in Tennessee in the U.S. took him to court for non-payment of child support.
His lawyer Keith Pope said: ‘The children can’t all be supported by Desmond, so the state of Tennessee has had to step in.’
Who Knew?
You’re jealous.
You’re jealous.
Ok for the benefit of society I’ll pay for Desmonds kids. But write it in there that Desmond gots to buy each damn kid a Dilly Bar or some damn thing once a week.
And not no Urban “Dilly Bar”
God is nothing sacred anymore?
Im all for covering all kids under age 18 and anyone who is in college getting a degree. That goes for adults too going back to school. Id be happy to cover all retired people.
Im not paying for able bodied idiots who think a day should be spent sitting around doing nothing and that pan handling is a profession.
“But, it is all because all those children, single moms and widows are so undeserving.”
Id be happy to cover all these people.
Im not covering the capable lazy. Eff ‘em.
When I grew up if you told some chick you had 8 kids you probably weren’t going to get any “action”.
“fathered 21 children with 11 different women”
1.909090909090909 Kids per woman.
The biggest fear of the mindless right is that not only will President Obama get a national health care plan enacted; but, like all other industrialized countries, when the public actually experiences what it is like to remove the worry of any American that he will lose his health care — average Americans and businesses will like it.
How is your health, True?
I’m just trying to determine how much real experience you have in dealing with the healthcare system in America before I take you to task for throwing out labels such as mindless.
Will your response have phrases such as “I had stopped breathing, but they were able to revive me” or will it consist of “I once read a study….”?
×œ×”×§×™× says:
“How is your health, True?”
What the heck does that mean?
If you have a point, make it.
If you have a point, make it.
YES SIR!
What the heck does that mean?
Perhaps he was simply inquiring about your health.
If you have a point, make it.
I already did in my original post, and I’ll repeat it here.
I’m trying to determine how much real experience you have in dealing with the healthcare system in America.
True, knows a lot of orphans and widows with no health insurance. The drunk pan handlers are fewer and further between for him.
I’ll break it down.
The biggest fear of the mindless right is that not only will President Obama get a national health care plan enacted; but like all other industrialized countries, when the public actually experiences what it is like to remove the worry of any American that he will lose his health care — average Americans and businesses will like it
Not having to worry about losing healthcare would be a great thing, but having a great deal of experience in dealing with the current system as the result of having,
1) A serious, chronic heart condition and,
2) being diabetic
My biggest fear is having some nameless government pencil pusher, freshly transferred from the DMV, decide that the five doctors I have to see every three months and the ten prescriptions I take every day are considered overusage of the system.
Second biggest fear is that if I do have another cardiac event, that I might not be able to just get up and go
my doctor when needed, which is exactly how the heart problem was originally discovered.
Do I have to spend money fopr this level of care? Yes, the same way I have to spend money to ensure that my car is properly maintained.
Not everyone that opposes, or has concerns about health care reform
to make a political fashion statement.
Therefore, I ask you the question
How is your health?
in order to determine whether your push for reform is out of genuine health concerns, or the “republicans and big pharma suck” talking point.
I guess it is true that I really do not know many people who are widows and minor orphans. I know they exist because of the statistics on our uninsured fellow Americans.
I am sorry to hear of your health issues להקי×. I can understand your concern about being able to obtain the necessary medical assistance when you require it. But, I also know that the Europeans, Canadians and Japanese have developed health systems which provide their citizens with health care at least equal to what the vast majority of Americans receive. These other countries are able to do this with a significantly lessor cost than we see in the United States.
The other countries can do this because they have a comprehensive health care sysgtem that covers everyone. Most of these countries still retain a private health care system which an individual can opt to choose to do if they have the financial means.
I think it is possible to see that someone like you can get the appropriate care required and still reap the advantages seen in European health care systems.
A comprehensive health care system in the United States would also have the economic advantage of removing health care as a direct cost to a business and provide a more cost effective system than is currently in place. It would also end the negative economic effects of workers being locked into a particular job because they had become uninsurable. (You or a family member gets sick and no other health care plan will let you join.)
I am sure you are also aware that it is no bed of roses trying to get a health care insurance company to get you care which you and your doctor may feel is necessary; but, the insurance company has a big red book which says treatments of this type should not be encouraged.
And a Soviet style health care system would cover millions of illegal aliens at taxpayers expense.
Get well vomit!
“Will your response have phrases such as “I had stopped breathing, but they were able to revive me†or will it consist of “I once read a study….â€?”
I guess it is true that I really do not know many people who are widows and minor orphans. I know they exist because of the statistics on our uninsured fellow Americans.
There’s the answer to the first question.
“in order to determine whether your push for reform is out of genuine health concerns, or the “republicans and big pharma suck†talking point.”
I am sure you are also aware that it is no bed of roses trying to get a health care insurance company to get you care which you and your doctor may feel is necessary; but, the insurance company has a big red book which says treatments of this type should not be encouraged.
I’d say it was the latter.
True, be honest. Have you, personally, ever had to really experience the health care system? I’m not talking about the “routine maintenance” stuff. I’m talking the “you’re going to die” stuff.
But, I also know that the Europeans, Canadians and Japanese have developed health systems which provide their citizens with health care at least equal to what the vast majority of Americans receive.
TrueBlue, I’ve never heard a Canadian speak positively about their health care. I’ve only heard a lot of complaints about how difficult it is. I’m sure Mark’s wife could tell you all about it. I have no idea about Europe or Japan. Although a friend of mine was in Ireland and had to go to the ER and said he got pretty good service. I don’t remember the details, so I can’t speak too well or poorly of it.
DJ:
You note that you have never heard a Canadian speak positively about their health care. The only thing I can really say about that is that Canada, the last time I checked, is a parliamentary democracy with three major parties. None of the political parties (as far as I am aware) or major political figures, in Canada, advocate abolishing the Canadian health care system and moving to an American style system. Isn’t that the best test of how the Canadian public feels about the health care they receive?
I believe this observation holds true for all the industrialized coutries that have adopted a comprehensive health care system. There is lots of talk about how to improve the system of each of the countries; but, no serious figures/parties support scrapping a comprehensive health care system for an American style system. For example, see the Conservative parties in both Canada and the United Kingdom.
I am sure you are also aware that it is no bed of roses trying to get a health care insurance company to get you care which you and your doctor may feel is necessary; but, the insurance company has a big red book which says treatments of this type should not be encouraged.
You would be surpised at how easy it’s been. Given all the horror stories I’ve heard regarding the insurance companies, I was surprised. I can think of two cases in the last two years where the insurance company has come back and said they wouldn’t cover a certain medication until I had tried an alternative.
In both of those cases, they would have covered the original med if the doctor had a compelling reason why I shouldn’t take the alternative.
It would also end the negative economic effects of workers being locked into a particular job because they had become uninsurable.
Now that is, of course, a big concern for me. You can imagine what my rates would be if I needed to get insurance on my own.
For that reason, I support health care reform, but I’ve heard my share of complaints about the British and Canadian systems, so for me, it’s not an issue I want to see up jump into with both feet. I worry when I hear Obama and others say things like “we have to act now” and “we need to control overusage of the system”.
Get well vomit!
Thanks, D2!
Even if Obama makes you taxpayers pay for my $200(after insurance) per month prescription med bill? 
I have gotten well as the result of the meds, diet and exercise.
We’ve seen how government has screwed up just about every program it’s run, and I don’t want it ruining our health care system while bankrupting the country in the process.
Glad to hear you doing better Vomit.
parthian says:
Well, I’m glad to see my little insults so got your goat, 6DJ, HAHAHAHA!
I note that the CBS report is highly misleading as it is seemingly saying that increasing albedo “would keep out of the atmosphere 2.4 billion tons of CO2″, which it certainly doesn’t. It is an attempt to offset the warming effects of our fossil fuel CO2 pollution, but it doesn’t do a thing to eradicate it or reduce it.
And you never will understand your hilarious illogic about the tilled farm fields of Granite Falls and the record temps in May 2009.
WOOOO. Boy. You got me Parth, you sure did.
NOT! )
You dont even understand the current debate if you stand by your goofy post.
THEY are arguing THE buildings, THE cities, THE cars heat up LESS if things reflect (you ever had black car interior, Mr. Parth?).
THUS, Mr Genius, one uses far less aircon, which I think you are aware is produced by those evil fossil fuels
TADA-DADA! Less CO2 is emitted.
You following that logic, there Parthy-boy?
And if they are arguing that black “heats up a city,” and a record temp occurs, is it really a BIG stretch to say the absorptive material contributed to that record?
Of course not.
But, I never begrudge people their obvious stupid opinions, it is your right in America. And I know you have an aversion to saying, ” Oops, I was wrong.”
Here is one paste from the media reports on this. Anyway, I promise to NOT pummel you on this anymore. You are simply a lost cause on common sense and GW.
YAHOO story:
And so is Chu’s dream already up in smoke? Not entirely, according to Jake Hacker, a senior scientist in the built-environment physics department of the world’s largest architectural engineering firm, Arup. “There are lots of people looking in to ways of reducing the ‘urban heat island’,” he explains.
“The cooler the town, the less air con used, which would reduce CO2 emissions. It’s not clear, however, if white is the best way of achieving that. Lots of reflecting surfaces in one place could cause horrible glare. And maintaining white on pavements and roads would be expensive.” He paused, then said, encouragingly: “But white surfaces definitely have a part to play. It’s just…”
It’s just what? “Well, the surface of the earth receives on average around 280 watts of energy per square metre, and only 1.5 per cent of the surface is cities or towns. I think we’re going to have to look at other things.”
None of the political parties (as far as I am aware) or major political figures, in Canada, advocate abolishing the Canadian health care system and moving to an American style system. Isn’t that the best test of how the Canadian public feels about the health care they receive?
Well, by that logic, arent Americans “just peachy” with their healthcare system? Fifteen years since Hilarycare died, and status quo…
It isnt just Canadian citizens coming down here, it was their doctors too, until the border was shut about 5 years ago.
Canada can have 6-9 month waits for MR’s, joint replacements, even cardiac procedures, ie major rationing.
Yet, the rationing is tolerated–no problem–by its doctors/patients for two reasons:
1. there isnt the ridiculous tort system/obese citizenry driving overtreatment/overutilization that we have here.
2. Most of what is rationed, isnt really needed in emergent fashion.
If one really goes by USPSTF recommendations, very few things need the quick service provided here, on a daily basis.
And for Canada’s truly ill, they can always seek care here….can you say MAYO?
Monty, I will try reply later in the day to your great question……
“Isn’t that the best test of how the Canadian public feels about the health care they receive?”
My wife is from Canada and her family just visited from Canada. They arent in love with the system True. They love their’s as about as much as we do. Come to think of it, no major party in the US has been able to make any changes to our system. Shouldnt that tell you the public isnt that interested in change?
The stories about waits for things like MRIs or non emergency surgery are true. You have to give somthing up to get something True.
It would really help things if we could get the cost of health care down, starting with getting the trial lawyers under control.
An interesting article on the subject of Canadians coming to the U.S. for health care:
Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians’ Use Of Health Care Services In The United States
Steven J. Katz, Karen Cardiff, Marina Pascali, Morris L. Barer and Robert G. Evans
PROLOGUE: Over the past three decades, particularly during periods when the U.S. Congress has flirted with the enactment of national health insurance legislation, the provincial health insurance plans of Canada have been a subject of fascination to many Americans. What caught their attention was the system’s universal coverage; its lower costs; and its public, nonprofit administration. The pluralistic U.S. system, considerably more costly and innovative, stands in many ways in sharp contrast to its Canadian counterpart. What has remained a constant in the dialogue between the countries is that their respective systems have remained subjects of condemnation or praise, depending on one’s perspective.
Throughout the 1990s, opponents of the Canadian system gained considerable political traction in the United States by pointing to Canada’s methods of rationing, its facility shortages, and its waiting lists for certain services. These same opponents also argued that “refugees” of Canada’s single-payer system routinely came across the border seeking necessary medical care not available at home because of either lack of resources or prohibitively long queues.
This paper by Steven Katz and colleagues depicts this popular perception as more myth than reality, as the number of Canadians routinely coming across the border seeking health care appears to be relatively small, indeed infinitesimal when compared with the amount of care provided by their own system. Katz is an associate professor in the Departments of Medicine and Health Policy and Management at the University of Michigan. Karen Cardiff is a research associate at the University of British Columbia’s Centre for Health Services and Policy Research. Also at the University of British Columbia are Morris Barer, professor and director at the Centre for Health Services and Policy Research’s Department of Health Care and Epidemiology, and Robert Evans, professor at the Centre for Health Services and Policy Research’s Department of Economics. Marina Pascali is a Dallas-based health care consultant.
The full article can be found here:
Deacon writes:
“Come to think of it, no major party in the US has been able to make any changes to our system. Shouldnt that tell you the public isnt that interested in change?”
That is simply not accurate Deacon. What do you think Medicaid and Medicare are?
President Harry S. Truman first proposed a national health insurance plan in 1945.
On July 30, 1965, President Lyndon Johnson signed Medicare and Medicaid into law. Former President Harry S. Truman was the first person to enroll in the Medicare program.
Those amounted to huge changes and better health care for millions of Americans. It was also denounced by the right as “sociali$m.” Although now, most Republicans (except D2 and his ilk) label the charge by Democrats that the Republicans really want to abolish medicare and medicaid as an election year smear.
Ah, I missed that Chu was talking about reduced air conditioning in cities, which certainly would reduce CO2 emissions. But that’s not the only cooling benefit of the albedo effect, as I indicated.
Of course, your second article makes clear that increased reflectivity isn’t any kind of solution to global warming.
But it’s great to see you making your first posts connecting increased CO2 from fossil fuels to global warming and why we must reduce such emissions, 6DJ. That must mean that you agree with Chu that painting things white in cities won’t solve global warming!
Partisan,
“Global Warming” is a hoax designed by the left to expand government, reduce freedoms, and redistribute wealth to the third world. The earth has actually been in a natural cooling cycle for several years.
Speaking of liberal trial lawyers destroying this country…..
16 illegal aliens sue Arizona rancher:
“That is simply not accurate Deacon. What do you think Medicaid and Medicare are?”
Honest to god true, get real. Those were crerated in 1965. If you want to claim that Candians love their system because the govt isnt making changes to it TODAY, the same is true for the US.
Canada is also about 1/10th the size. Bottom line, do YOU, know any Canadians?
“President Harry S. Truman first proposed a national health insurance plan in 1945.”
63 years later and no such program exists. Iguess the public doesnt want it.
“Those amounted to huge changes and better health care for millions of Americans. It was also denounced by the right as “sociali$m.—
True, do you have any idea how broke medicare and medicaid are? Do you personally have any relationship with a doctor other than your own? Ask a doctor how nice and easy it is dealing with medicare as an insurance company or how many claims get denied by the govt.
Prove to me the govt can manage the insurance programs they already have (VA, Medicare, Medicaid etc) and Id consider adding to the pile of unfunded obligations we already have.
IM guessing that like always you’ve got lots of studies and anecdotes but no personal experience with any of it, Canadian or otherwise. It would be nice if we could make this switch and it would be totally seemless. Its not as simple or as perfect as you’d like to think. We cant even run the govt insurance systems we have now and you want to tripple the size.
Wow! What an argument Deacon.
Don’t bother with any history, don’t bother with any serious economics. You can take my word for it because, let’s face it – I am never serious and I make up stuff whenever I want.
You CLAIMED that no major party in the United States had been able to make anhy difference in the health care system. That is not only ignorant of U.S. history; but just plain wrong.
But, can you ever man up and say, geez, sorry, I miss spoke or spoke in error? Heck no, it is all a game and you are never really serious about anything.
Which is why when President Obama does get a national health care program enacted in the next year; there will just be another Deacon moment where it is obvious that he does not know what the heck he is talking about.
I have run out of time to keep correcting you; so why don’t you go out and study up a bit on the subject of health care and then, maybe, we can have a serious discussion.
” I guess the public doesnt want it.”
Agreed. The reason healthcare is such an issue is the extremely high cost. I think we need to fix our existing system, starting with trial lawyers and illegal aliens who are driving up the cost for everyone.
“Which is why when President Obama does get a national health care program enacted in the next year”
Not going to happen True. And the reason is, the current system does work.
My wife has MS. I’ve had what might be described (nowadays) as a minor heart condition. Minor enough to require open heart surgery.
My point is, we deal with “the system” every month. Our biggest hassle to date was a one day delay in the filling of a prescription, for the reasons vomit stated above.
Don’t knock it, until you’ve tried it.
“You CLAIMED that no major party in the United States had been able to make anhy difference in the health care system.”
Not in decades. It was your claim that people in Canada must love their system because the Govt hasnt changed it. Well the govt hasnt changed our system in decades either so what’s that tell you?
“Don’t bother with any history”
Medicare and Medicaid are 43 years old. 43 YEARS. They are HISTORY. Lets talk about today.
“don’t bother with any serious economics.”
Medicare and Medicaid are broke. There is your serious economics right there genious. Try and argue your way out of that little economic historical fact big shot.
“Which is why when President Obama does get a national health care program enacted in the next year”
Keep dreaming. Find a way to pay for the unfunded obligations staring medicare and medicaid in the face first. This is where the govt controlled universal health care argumnet falls totally on its face. The govt cant even finance the insurance programs they already have and there is no arguing your way out of that True.
” But, can you ever man up and say, geez, sorry, I miss spoke or spoke in error?”
My mistake was not saying no changes in the past 43 YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAARS. LBJ is long dead and buried True.
“I have run out of time to keep correcting you; so why don’t you go out and study up a bit on the subject of health care and then, maybe, we can have a serious discussion.”
Not until you’ve gone out and asked a doctor what its like dealing with medicare and have asked a Canadian what its like waiting for an MRI jackass.
“there will just be another Deacon moment where it is obvious that he does not know what the heck he is talking about.”
Do you deny the unfunded medicare obligations exist?
Monty: on needless waste in our health system—-and even if things were great IT would be expensive with this aging population, dementia, etc but it still boils down to 2 separate issues:
1. Overutilization by patients:
We literally have the far and away–the most obese, and sedentary, society in world history. This means skyrocketing levels of diabetes, cancers, hypertension, joint replacements, back pain and the like. These are expensive diseases, both for visits, but even more so for labs, surgeries, and treatments.
and throw in things like……
the minute clinic experience, i.e. they provide fine care, and it is fast, but they exist mainly to treat things that studies now show don’t need any treatment, like sinus infections
ear infections, or strep throat.
For strep, i.e……
Some large medical thinktanks don’t even recommend testing for, or treating strep throat, in industialized
nations because the rate of rheumatic fever is only about 1 in 4000.
Ever see that stat in the media?
Yet, schools still send home notes: Jonny had strep, see your doctor =
Sore throats (and ears) enrich many a doctor, but it occurs in a reality where it is likely a needless worry (i.e. untreated strep is almost always a self-limited disease and studies suggest penicillin simply shorten symptoms by about 12 hours) and the side effects of medicine may outweigh the benefits.
Yet, you add all the revenue from quick clinics to get an idea of the small morsel of waste in America.
Add in the obesity epidemic fueling diabetics galore to get an idea of a megacost that should be unnecessary, as likely 80% of diabetics are needlessly so, thru weight gain issues.
Monty,
for some reason, the filter wont let me post on the other big cost:
defensive medicine, which runs into the several hundred billion per year……
thru needless tests, exams and the like
Oh well, gotta run and go fishing,
Good luck fishing Jim!
You’re right about the high cost of defensive medicine. Doctors are forced to perform unnecessary and expensive tests in case they get sued by preditor liberal trial lawyers. Why can’t we work on fixing our current system before allowing government to take it over as is? We’ve seen how well they manage beurocracies.
Freeze watch and record low temperatures expected in June for parts of New York:
http://www.uticaod.com/archive/x1175994993/May-to-go-out-under-a-freeze-watch
More proof of Globull Warming!
“These same opponents also argued that “refugees†of Canada’s single-payer system routinely came across the border seeking necessary medical care not available at home because of either lack of resources or prohibitively long queues.”
Just as US citizens cross the border seeking unapproved treatments in Mexico, not so much out of envy for the Mexican national health care system but in hopes of delaying the inevitable, finding the fountain of youth or, just because they won’t take no for an answer.
Mexican healthcare is less expensive in part because they don’t have to worry about preditor trial lawyers like doctors do here.
“WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Late-term abortion doctor George Tiller, a prominent advocate for abortion rights wounded by a protester more than a decade ago, was shot and killed Sunday at a church in Wichita where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir, his attorney said.”
The killer is on the run although you won’t have to look far to see he has defenders even on the news blog of the Strib. Well just ’cause he’s a coward doesn’t mean he’s not a domestic terrorist, as much a candidate for Gitmo as anyone.
Freeze watch and record low temperatures expected in June for parts of New York:
“More proof of Globull Warming!”
You sound like you’re can’t wait for Global Warming to make things more comfortable D2. Ice caps and snow caps off to your reasoning!
adlib,
I suppose you support the Cap and Trade tax which will cripple our economy while allowing the biggest polluter communist China to do business as usual?
Yes, I support Cap and Trade and Federally mandated CAFE standards and other artificial barriers to the marketplace offering us cheap goods produced as cheaply as possible without any consideration for environmental impact.
Supply side economics preaches that the consumer decides winners and losers in the marketplace. Well if the cost of polluting is another production expense that must be paid then the lowest polluting producer of the most
desirable product gets rewarded by the Unseen Hand.
That’s not overrregulation. That’s progressive Supply Side economics based upon what we now know about environmental degradation caused by greenhouse emissions. We the consumers cannot effect these changes on a world wide scale without these agreed upon standards.
Adlib,
I don’t like pollution either, and we already have strict regulations to control it. Soci@lists don’t seem to approve of ANY reliable type of energy including clean coal, petroleum, or nuclear, and we can’t be forced to switch away from these dependable sources just yet.
It seems like liberals/soci@lists make their decisions quickly on idiology and feelings before fully understanding the consequences.
“It seems like liberals/soci@lists make their decisions quickly on idiology and feelings before fully understanding the consequences.”
This was no quick decision D2. The problems with fossil fuel and nucleur energy production have long been known. What’s suddenly changed is there’s currently a political will to do something about these problems. We can either take a world leadership role at this time or become the recalcitrant member of the international club who kicks and screams about paying our dues all through the first part of the twenty first century.
adlib, what’s the likelihood that the Wichita gun toting doctor-killer was a “conservative” white male, do you think?
Nah, he’s prob’ly an illegal alien, right, 2Dim?
Another shooting of demonic lib’ruls in their church as well. Guess the killers like the irony of it!
“The problems with fossil fuel and nucleur energy production have long been known.”
France’s power is about 70% nuclear. Why don’t those leftists have a problem with it? Most of our power comes from coal, but Obama has stated that he wants to bankrupt the coal industry. How the hell are we going to successfully switch over to an alternative reliable energy source which doesn’t exist yet?
Again, this whole attitude is in reaction to the leftist “Global Warming” hoax, designed to expand government, limit our freedoms, and redistribute wealth to the third world.
“adlib, what’s the likelihood that the Wichita gun toting doctor-killer was a “conservative†white male, do you think?”
Partisan,
That guy wasn’t a conservative, he was a kook.
The problem with France’s nucleur program, or that of any other nucleur power producer, is the secure containment needed to prevent the waste byproduct from eventually contaminating some watershed. If Nevada doesn’t accept (hazardous) delivery of MN’s spent fuel it will sit in casks on the banks of the Mississippi River indefinetely.
Or would you rather have this fissionable material fall into the hands of real terrorists waging an
asymmetrical war against the West.
If France has reduced the the contaminated waste to glass rods that only makes the waste more portable than our spent fuel rods stored in casks. If there is no ultimate disposal of the material then we’re still wseeping the problem under the rug.
I’ve heard solutions such as sending it on a one way trip to the sun. Another idea was lowering it into the seismic faults in the ocean’s trenches. What cost-effective responsible solution would you suggest?
“What cost-effective responsible solution would you suggest?”
That’s a good question for liberals who want to eliminate all of the cost-effective solutions we now have.
“Partisan,
That guy wasn’t a conservative, he was a kook.”
Yes’ but was his right to be a kook protected byt the First Amendment or the Second Amendment, or both?
“Partisan,
That guy wasn’t a conservative, he was a kook.”
Yes, but was his right to be a kook protected by the First Amendment or the Second Amendment, or both?
If only Kansas had a law that allowed churches to post signs that “bans guns in these premisesâ€.
But for the lack of a sign, the baby killing “doctor” would be alive today.
Yes, since the crazed right wing domestic terrorist was delighted to commit murder, he likely would have ignored the “no guns on premises” signage law as well. Can’t argue with you there….
“That guy wasn’t a conservative, he was a kook”
It’s interesting how many times those two qualities coincide, isn’t it 2D?
It looks like the gun totin’ murderer entered “kookery” by way of a steady diet of right wing “conservatism”. That’s the problem.
“adlib, what’s the likelihood that the Wichita gun toting doctor-killer was a “conservative†white male, do you think?”
About as likely as the mother who dumped her baby in a cardboard box along the FL Highway is a liberal.
ttp://www.clickorlando.com/news/19618358/detail.html
I wonder where he made the leap to deciding to kill the guy — that’s not exactly endorsed in the bible anywhere.
and when was the last time a radical “leftist” actually killed someone here in the US? 1975?
Chicago has 7 shooting deaths in 24 hours
Anybody know Bagdad’s total for between 6:15 a.m. Saturday and just before 6 a.m. Sunday?
“Chicago has 7 shooting deaths in 24 hours”
How many of the shooters were conservatives and how many were liberals?
…and maybe you could explain what point you’re trying to make? That Chicago had more murders during a period than Baghdad did?
You think it might be just a wee bit inaccurate to compare one statistic for two different cities under different circumstances? Or did you just pull that from Drudge like most of your other garbage posts that get ignored?
Point is?
How come we don’t have people protesting?
“You think it might be just a wee bit inaccurate to compare one statistic for two different cities under different circumstances?”
Come again?
So one city we would consider a “combat zone”
But which one?
Maybe his point is people are concerned about how many people are being killed in Baghdad and that no one seems to care about the amount of violence taking place in Chicago?
“Youth Killings Reach Crisis Level In Chicago.
Young people in Chicago are dying violent deaths at an alarming rate.
So far this school year, at least 36 Chicago Public School students have been killed, most of them victims of gunshots. Scores of other Chicago children and teenagers have been wounded in shootings, and there are concerns that the gun violence could escalate when school is out for the summer in a few weeks.”
ttp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104566915
I guess the cindy sheehan crowd doesn’t care about inner city kids that get killed in cities run by Mayors with (D’s) after their name.
Wheres Dickie Durban? Isn’t Chicago like some third world city.
The Cindy Sheehan crowd doesn’t represent the Democrats.
DB, more people die in traffic accidents every year than died in Vietnam from 1955-1975. Certainly a lot more than in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Does that mean no one cares about traffic accidents?
and when was the last time a radical “leftist†actually killed someone here in the US? 1975?
Well, it’s not for lack of desire. My guess is the talent pool for US bombmakers is shrinking.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/45694662.html?elr=KArksUUUU
The pair of young Austin, Texas, men who filled wine bottles with gasoline and motor oil during the Republican National Convention in St. Paul are both going to federal prison, but one will serve twice as much time as the other.
“Does that mean no one cares about traffic accidents?”
Why not just say the violence in Chicago doesnt matter to most people instead of making false equivelancies? The shootings in the Chicago arent “accidents”. No one, aside from Anderson Cooper, seems to care.
Or is your point that the people of America are suffering in silence over these murders and they really do care but arent speaking up for some reason?
Comparing Baghdad to Chicago is a false equivalency. There are two very different issues going on.
What’s happening in Chicago is the culmination of problems of poverty, schools, class, race, history and economics — which is very different from the set of problems that resulted in the war/violence in Iraq.
Yeah, it’s a terrible thing, but it’s exceedingly useless wring your hands and say “OMG look at what’s going on in Chicago! Doesn’t anyone care??!?!?”
“What’s happening in Chicago is the culmination of problems of poverty, schools, class, race, history and economics ”
Bull Sh^t!
“Yeah, it’s a terrible thing”
Not worth writing your congressman about? Not worth having a protest in front of Amy Klobuchar office? Not worth having report after report after report on CNN and the Nightly News? Not worth keeping a running death toll?
Just not worth it? Or…….
No politcal gain to be made from it?
“Yeah, it’s a terrible thing, but it’s exceedingly useless wring your hands and say “OMG look at what’s going on in Chicago! Doesn’t anyone care??!?!?—
Useless because people dont care.
Oh and comparing violence in Chicago to car accidents is the real false equivelency here.
“What’s happening in Chicago is the culmination of problems of poverty, schools, class, race, history and economics — which is very different from the set of problems that resulted in the war/violence in Iraq.”
You should look into how liberal welfare policy enacted in the 60′s played a part in those things you mentioned. Specifically policies that encouraged fathers to abandon their families. By the way there has been a Democratic Mayor in Chicago for 78 years.
“No politcal gain to be made from it?”
This is obviously true on the political level. You may not have noticed, Tiny, but American society is kinda desensitized when it comes to violence.
It also works on a racial level. 2 people were recently killed in hit and runs on the same day in LA. One was a 18 yr old white female student. The other was a 50 yr old Guatamalen male laborer. The LAPD went into overdrive to track down the perp in the 1st case. They assigned a single investigator in the second.
Depends on your definition of worth…
“By the way there has been a Democratic Mayor in Chicago for 78 years.”
Soooooo, it’s all the evil Democrats fault, eh, Deacon? Please. Is Chicago the only city in the US experiencing these types of problems?
“Specifically policies that encouraged fathers to abandon their families.”
Specifially, which policies encouraged fathers to abandon their families?
“Soooooo, it’s all the evil Democrats fault, eh, Deacon?”
Yep. All of it. Seriously though, my point is Democratic leadership isnt the antidote for poverty, school failure and achievement gaps.
” Is Chicago the only city in the US experiencing these types of problems? ”
Chicago is one of the worst examples of inner city gang violence. Its out of control.
“Specifially, which policies encouraged fathers to abandon their families?
How about the policy that for a family to get welfare benefits the father had to be out of the home? Lets start there.
Ha-ha, great job of evading the reality of the latest right-wing domestic terrorist murder by the professional sophist duo of tiny and deaconj. “Chicago! Iraq! Liberal Welfare Policy! Hypocrisy!” Bravo!
You two get your wingnut gold star for the day. And shame on others for wasting one syllable in response to these two game playing high school debate failures.
I’d say the increase in Chicago murders is just another aspect of our nation being soaked in an ever rising ocean of handguns—it sure does make killin’ easier for gangs of all sorts, from black Chicago gangstas to White Wichita Wingnuts! Thank God for “conservatives” protectin’ our crucial gun “rights!” It’s all gain!
I wonder when “conservative gun policy” will be a perjorative phrase for failure like “liberal welfare policy”?
“I’d say the increase in Chicago murders is just another aspect of our nation being soaked in an ever rising ocean of handguns.”
And the unintended consequences of welfare policy in the 60′s that pushed fathers out of the home.
“level. You may not have noticed, Tiny, but American society is kinda desensitized when it comes to violence.”
Probably because it gets the one day coverage until the next days shooting.
Sorry but it the thing that ticks me off the most. More then 5,000 kids have lost their lives due to gang violence in America since this war stated. I can god damn guarantee you that. Yet its seems to be okay to some, not an issue for others.
But one kid who “volunteeredâ€, get killed fighting for what they must believe in ..oh oh that’s a reason to stop and get in front of a microphone and babble the mouth off.
7 and 8 year-olds get caught in the cross fire in Minneapolis and oh boy it’s a tragedy for a day. Civilian gets caught in the crossfire in Iraq we hear about it over and over.
“my point is Democratic leadership isnt the antidote for poverty, school failure and achievement gaps.”
Agreed. I don’t think the “antidote” is party specific. All depends on the leadership.
“Chicago is one of the worst examples of inner city gang violence.”
Compared to what? Got anything we can use as a comparision or is this just your considered opinion? Hey, turnabout is fair play.
“How about the policy that for a family to get welfare benefits the father had to be out of the home? Lets start there.”
Ok, let’s. That would be welfare benefits for a single mother then, not a family, right? Because, if we’re talking about a husband and wife, those rules do not apply, do they?
And, it depends on which “benefits” you’re talking about-WIC assistance, unemployment, general assistance, there’s lotsa catagories.
While I admit the policy you cited existed in certain circumstances, a puke that would leave the mother of his children and said children hanging because of some “welfare policy” would find some reason to vape in any event.
no father in home (but only because of liberal welfare policy) = male child likely to commit murder with handgun.
Yeah, I’m sure you’ve got that right.
“Compared to what? Got anything we can use as a comparision or is this just your considered opinion? Hey, turnabout is fair play.”
ttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/13/record-36-students-killed-this-school-year-across-/
Chicago has the highest number of murdered young people in the nation.
“An Enormous Gang Population
Gun violence is so pervasive in Chicago because of the sheer number of gang members, according to Chicago Police Superintendent Jody Weis.
“We have the largest gang population of any city in the United States,” Weis says. “The only city that rivals us is Los Angeles.”
Weis says that while L.A.’s gang population is estimated to be somewhere between 55,000 and 70,000, he estimates there are at least 100,000 gang members in Chicago.”
ttp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104566915
“That would be welfare benefits for a single mother then, not a family, right?”
Come on Monty think a minute. The policy encourages fathers to be “abscent” whether they really are or not. Maybe dad leaves for a week or two while the welfare office visits? Pretty soon he is gone all the time. You actually think people dont try and game the system and the system ends up creating a situation where its “better” financially for an out of work dad to “leave” his family so his wife and kids can get govt cheese? If not there are certainly a lot of “pukes” as you put it in low income African American families in the Chicago welfare system.
A better system would have been one where the family could have gotten full benefits regardless if there was a father int he home.
“How about the policy that for a family to get welfare benefits the father had to be out of the home? Lets start there.”
? Seems to me we hear plenty about young kids innocently caught in a gangland crossfire. I’ll agree that we don’t here much about the the inter-gangland killings, though. The new angle seems to be based on age and involvement.
“no father in home (but only because of liberal welfare policy) = male child likely to commit murder with handgun.”
Only a moron would deny the connection. Im sure the crime statistics of kids with fathers and those without are identical. No connection whatsoever between a kids father situation and his gang affiliation.
And I never said only because of foolish welfare policy. I said there was a connection between the two.
Oooops.
“7 and 8 year-olds get caught in the cross fire in Minneapolis and oh boy it’s a tragedy for a day. Civilian gets caught in the crossfire in Iraq we hear about it over and over.”
? Seems to me we hear plenty about young kids innocently caught in a gangland crossfire. I’ll agree that we don’t here much about the the inter-gangland killings, though. The new angle seems to be based on age and involvement.
there, fixed it
“Gun violence is so pervasive in Chicago because of the sheer number of gang members, according to Chicago Police Superintendent Jody Weis.”
L.A. County has 10,000 known gang members and associates.
I heard that and was stunned by the numbers. I bet Sgt didn’t know that. No R behind anybodies name in California….Oh wait Arnold….Yeah its Arnold fault.
I guess we need Harry to tell us “Its Lostâ€. Lets give our cities over to the gangs. Except….see Harry doesn’t care.
Step up to that open Mic…somebody please.
“? Seems to me we hear plenty about young kids innocently caught in a gangland crossfireâ€
Oh Yeah they hold a little rally and burn some candles…then its over.. until the next one.
Im sure the real reason kids join gangs is because once they get a gun in their hand they become hypnotized and cant help but kill people. Its all the guns fault right Parth. A kids family situation is of no consequence. While gun availability is certainly a problem, Id say a lack of family stability and structure is much more likely a culprit for the creation of gang violence than the presence of guns in the community.
Good sources, Deacon. I noticed the Washington Times article said that violence is on the decline, which is encouraging.
And yes, I’m sure there are plenty of people gaming the welfare system. I’d agree that the “absent father” policy encouraged that kind of activity. But, again, we’re talking about single mothers, not married couples. Regardless, it was a dumb policy. Like many of these social initiatives, the intention did not take into account the possible outcomes.
“But, again, we’re talking about single mothers, not married couples.”
My point is that this system creates single mothers out of married women. Desperate men are encouraged to leave their families. They might leave for financial reasons and while their gone the kids get into trouble.
“Like many of these social initiatives, the intention did not take into account the possible outcomes.”
Which is often the case. I dont like the idea that electing democrats is the salvation of the poor when Democratic policy many times makes things worse. Whats that old saying about the road to hell and good intentions? What we are facing in Chicago is a crisis of deminished expectations. People dont care because they dont expect anything different from poverty stricken inner city african american neighborhoods. All these Democrats voting for Obama who live in Aurora or Naperville look at the South Side of Chicago and say “at least its not in my neighborhood” and then turn the channel.
DB, my whole point was to illustrate the false equivalency by pointing out another.
But you’re absolutely right that well-intentioned, but wrong liberal policies of the 60s and 70s lead to where we are today. Not so sure that conservative policies would have been better — in fact, they probably would have been worse.
“Not so sure that conservative policies would have been better — in fact, they probably would have been worse.”
Doing nothing isnt the answer which Im sure the Limbaugh conservatives would advocate for. Expecting that everyone has access to the same resources is ignorant, you need to do something to level the field. But expecting that the govt can be all things to all people is not much better. Schools, job training, supporting families where possible I agree with. Some of the stuff passed in the “great society” days has ended up causing problems and Id like the die hards to acknowledge that from time to time.
“What we are facing in Chicago is a crisis of deminished expectations.”
Now I think you have your finger on the root cause. If people see no hope for the future, they will become sociopathic. Without opportunity and hope, people will drop out and form alliances with what else is available.
I also think that problem extends to the powers that be and privilaged society at large. The reason that society doesnt seem to care that 36 students have been murdered in Chicago public schools is that the majority of voters never see the South Side of Chicago.
Swine flue will scare the sh:t out of your average suburban mom and places like Target run out of hand sanitizer. But a black kids gets beaten to death with a baseball bat and set on fire? That seems to miss the nightly news for some reason. But Hey, Obama is prez now so everything will be a’ight!!
Well, there’s a reason O campaigned on HOPE. Alot of people must not have alot of it. Complaciency in the haves, growing desperation in the have nots.
“Alot of people must not have alot of it.”
I have a bad feeling that the lack of HOPE in Naperville and the lack of HOPE on the South Side are worlds apart. People on the South Side will still be getting the shaft after Obama leaves.
No question that expectation levels differ with income(hence, in America, social class)levels. While some in Naperville might fear higher taxes, some on the South Side might fear for rent. And if anyone thinks O can come in, wave a magic wand, and make it all good, they are in La La Land.
“And if anyone thinks O can come in, wave a magic wand, and make it all good, they are in La La Land.”
The Bumper Sticker People?
“1 killed, 1 wounded in shooting at Army recruiting center in Little Rock, Ark
By NOAH TRISTER , Associated Press
Last update: June 1, 2009 – 3:40 PM”
Hey Parth, whats the likelyhood that this shooter is a lefty antiwar antimilitarist extremist?
“Chicago has 7 shooting deaths in 24 hoursâ€
How many of the shooters were conservatives and how many were liberals?
************************************
Check out the mug shots of some of Obama’s biggest followers:
“what’s the like[lihood]…shooter is antiwar antimilitarist extremist?”
Oh, fairly low, I’d say, based on the the way these things have been working out in the past decade. But we’ll see!
I do know that it’s more gun-based mayhem and murder, so just another violent day in Handgun Nation, and just another game to you! Did you spot this story on Free Republic, deacon?
Cash N. Carey says:
May 31st, 2009 at 9:20 pm
If only Kansas had a law that allowed churches to post signs that “bans guns in these premisesâ€.
But for the lack of a sign, the baby killing “doctor†would be alive today.
But for lack of an abortion, a church defiling homicidal “kook” is alive today.
There, fixed it.
Deacon Blues says:
June 1st, 2009 at 9:56 am
“Chicago has 7 shooting deaths in 24 hoursâ€
How many of the shooters were conservatives and how many were liberals?
Sounds like gang warfare or a chain reaction of retaliation. “Honor” killings are inherently conservatave.
Ted Rall: It’s increasingly evident that Obama should resign.
Wow, from left even.
“Chicago is one of the worst examples of inner city gang violence. Its out of control.”
A failure of the community to reach these kids at the age that matters.
Efforts begin somewhat too late when the kids already have a juvenile record they can brag about.
Diminished expectations? I don’t think so. They can see we’ve got a black president. Unrealistic expectations? More likely. The kids need to recognize the work involved in getting where they want to be in life legally and develop an appetite for it. But low self esteem is easy to acquire and makes the hormones work against someone who feels like a prisoner in his /her own body. If they’ve got game they’ll want to defeat the odds.
The child is father to the man. Real life fathers are apt to disappoint. Survival is like graduation with honors from the school of hard knocks.
“A failure of the community to reach these kids at the age that matters.”
This a a failure of the liberal welfare state which has replaced fathers with government.
“If they’ve got game they’ll want to defeat the odds.”
Basketball, Derrick Rose? Are you being racist?
“The kids need to recognize the work involved in getting where they want to be in life legally and develop an appetite for it.”
Yeah, its the kids fault. They should work harder. Now if we could keep the gangs out of the schools that would be easier to do. Its hard to concentrate when there are snipers in your buildings picking off other gang bangers.
“But low self esteem is easy to acquire and makes the hormones work against someone who feels like a prisoner in his /her own body.”
Diminished expectations.
“Survival is like graduation with honors from the school of hard knocks.”
Have you driven through the South Side of Chicago before? Next time your there, take the long way to the Museum of Science and Industry.
adlib writes an original, reflective, insightful post with an actual argument and “conservative” 2Dim responds with a stale slogan copied from a right wing garbage trough.
Business as usual at BQ!
“Handgun Nation, and just another game to you!”
You’re my game Parth. But Im sure your heart is bleeding in the most serious way all over the floor for the dead doctor.
“Did you spot this story on Free Republic, deacon”
The AP. Oh and this from the the NY Times.
“In a lengthy interview with the police, Mr. Muhammad said he was angry about the killing of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, Chief Thomas said. Previously known as Carlos Bledsoe, Mr. Muhammad told investigators that he had converted to Islam as a teenager, Chief Thomas said.”
“He seemed to be familiar with the Army recruiting office because it was not far from his home, the chief said, but might have been on the prowl for anyone in uniform.
“I would say he was looking for any and all targets of opportunity that happened to be military,†the chief said in a telephone interview. “That may have well been the first place he found.—
More conservative programming?
And deacon joins in with his usual game of sophism, “facts” that only he thinks exist and reaction for reaction’s sake—nothing to contribute, absolutely empty.
“And deacon joins in with his usual game of sophism, “facts†that only he thinks exist and reaction for reaction’s sake—nothing to contribute, absolutely empty.”
Yeah, the gangs in Chicago’s schools are a figment of my imagination. Dispute the facts. I have to say I’m really disappointed with your callousness towards this situation.
Oh, I thought your argument was that the Little Rock jihadist was a “liberal”….that’ll be tomorrow’s “argument”, I guess.
“Oh, I thought your argument was that the Little Rock jihadist was a “liberalâ€â€¦.that’ll be tomorrow’s “argumentâ€, I guess.”
If anti abortion means conservative then anti militarist means liberal. Im playing YOUR game now. Sophist, I like that word.
“2 shot on Metro Transit bus”
Lets have a BIG PRESS conference.
Story gone by tomorrow and we all forget…again!
“A failure of the community to reach these kids at the age that matters.
Efforts begin somewhat too late when the kids already have a juvenile record they can brag about.”
Bull Sh^t!
So what was the excuse 10 years ago, 20, 30 years ago.
I tell Ya lets do this. Lets open some community centers and hire some social workers and most of all, lets throw some money at this thing.
“Poverty Con” I fell for it for 30 years..no more.
I’ve come to the conclusion that 95% of the people living in Trailer Parks or in the inner city want to live that way. I also believe..hey we haven’t seen a change after all these years of giving them money so lets try not giving them money.
“I’m playing your game now”
I don’t think you know what you’re playing. You’re just chasing your tail. Carry on!
Deacon: “Arf! Arf!”
“2 SHOT on [insert location here]….story gone…we all forget”
You’re absolutely right, tiny—we don’t even notice most of the gun mayhem now or recognize that guns are involved in the killing, we act like it’s some force of nature that humans can’t control.
That’s even worse than forgetting. The “conservative” battle for gun rights and non-regulation has been a great boon to American society, though—one of the movement’s grrreatt success stories!
Tiny I think I finally figured out your perspective. If it’s something that’s too complex for you to figure out, it’s B.S. Makes sense now.
Parth please explain to me how gun control will stop these shootings from happening in the future.
‘Deacon: “Arf! Arf!‒
Thats it? Clever.
“Parth please explain to me how gun control will stop these shootings from happening in the future.”
Oh bot Sgt, you’ve really stepped into a sh:t storm now. Questioning Parth, not a good idea.
“If it’s something that’s too complex for you to figure out, it’s B.S. Makes sense now.”
Oh I figured it out and so have a lot of people. Don’t work, have babies and get money. I’ve seen it for what ??? going on 30 years now.
I’s think you don’t see it?
So Parth if there where no guns these guys would have had a good-old fashion fisticuffs.
Really now?
Give me some money I’ve had a “culmination of problems of poverty, schools, class, race, history and economics”
After that you’ve got plenty of time to think about stuff. Stuff like “where can I get a gun”?
2 shot on Metro Transit bus
Gezzz I hate to go out on a limb here, but I’m guessing the birth certificate of the suspect doesn’t read “born in Minneapolis”
SgtP, even though you’re a gun man, you must be aware that studies across all countries (and even within countries like Canada) show a strong positive correlation between gun ownership rates and homicides.
Gun Nation US of A is usually far and away the highest of the industrialized world, with the highest gun ownership rates. As always, we’re the crazed ideological outlier in the civilized world, because Americans are frankly not a very civilized (or rational) people.
The irrational “conservative” gun movement hasn’t helped (to say the least), and the issue is for intents and purposes, dead (so to speak). Basically, it’s up to each American to figure put how to deal with life in crazed Gun Nation.
tiny, other countries find that with lower levels of gun ownership, people still have fisticuffs—they’re just far less likely to end in death. One can retreat from other weapons when they appear. Can you outrun a bullet?
Can gun deaths be eliminated? No one has done that even with handgun bans, although Japan usually has almost no children killed by guns.
As I say, a dead issue. Keep shooting, everyone, no one cares!
Tiny says:
“I’ve come to the conclusion that 95% of the people living in Trailer Parks or in the inner city want to live that way.”
I agree with the logic of that statement. People live the way they live because of the choices they make. A person doesn’t have to settle for a life in the projects or on WIC, which is different than living in the projects for a period of time or going on welfare or unemployment to get through a rough patch. We live the life we live because of the choices we have made that got us where we are.
“We live the life we live because of the choices we have made that got us where we are.”
You have to climb the mountain. For some they were born somewhere further up the mountain than others. Kids born into a drug infested Ghetto in Chicago with one or no sober working parents and few education or job opportunities not only have to climb the mountain, they also have to dodge the inevitable avalanche on the way up.
But it is possible to get out. It happens all the time.
On Health Care:
When I had my heart attack, I was amazed that I was in treatment in less than two minutes upon arrival at the ER, “Done, with three stents in yah” in less than three hours, and back at work less than 24 hours after onset of symptoms. Truly an example of a US health care system doing its job to perfection.
I was also amazed, however, to find the tab for that service: $46,000+ in less than 24 hours, including over $1,000 each for those stents. Also an example of what is wrong with our health care system.
I didn’t ask what the cumulative tab to the hospital and staff was for liability insurance due to predatory attornies, so I can’t comment on that aspect.
“Traces of cocaine ‘found in Red Bull’ in Hong Kong”
Is that why I’m up at the Holiday Station 10 times a night(Run in, Run out) to get some Red Bull?
“I was also amazed, however, to find the tab for that service: $46,000+ in less than 24 hours, including over $1,000 each for those stents.”
Did you have health insurance to cover these costs? Because, if you didn’t, then you can fully appreciate the effect a medical emergency can have on an uninsured family’s finances.
“Suspect pleads not guilty in soldier’s death”
A Muslim convert who already was under federal investigation pleaded not guilty Tuesday in what police called a likely “political and religious” attack that killed a young soldier at a military recruiting center.
Really..you guys hear this or is it not covered because of the NutJob Abortion Clinic killer spotlight.
So let me get this straight.
Soldier killed NO COVERAGE
Abortion Dr Killed. Wall to wall baby.
Oh and by the way we are having a Candlelight vigil for him tonight. Participants are asked to bring their own candles.
I’ve also come to the conclusion that its not me thats F’d up, its you guys that are F’d up.
On Guns, Murders, Gangs, and Social Programs:
It seems to me that it takes four things for a murder to take place:
>a circumstance which arouses hostility;
>a person willing to commit murder;
>the opportunity to obtain a suitable weapon; and
>the opportunity to use it.
Unless all four things are present, no murder will take place.
In the heat of the moment it seems the risk of punishment does not deter.
Gangs, upbringing, availability of weapons, lax security and law enforcement may play a role.
But in the end, the critical factor is that a person is willing to commit murder.
To ignore this factor and to bemoan the other factors seems to me to avoid the one critical point.
To me, the puzzling question is “Why are so many persons in our society ready and willing to take another human life?” Absent this, the other factors would not matter.
Some say “TV”; others “computer games”; still others “no fathers present”, “lack of hope or jobs”, “bad neighborhoods” or “disregard for human fetuses breeds disrespect for life”. And the list goes on.
I wish I could find the answer.
But it does worry me when I see people all around me not taking responsibility for their own actions. And I wonder how we got that way.
“To me, the puzzling question is “Why are so many persons in our society ready and willing to take another human life?†Absent this, the other factors would not matter.”
Oh and these “True Crime” deals. God the murders these people think they are going to get away with. “Mr Jones just happens to buy a 1 million dollar life insurance for his wife” and a week later she falls from a cliff while hiking with her husband.
“>a circumstance which arouses hostility;”
In whos mind?
He looked at me funny?
“Really..you guys hear this or is it not covered because of the NutJob Abortion Clinic killer spotlight.”
I did and its been all over the news.
I had some insurance. But as usual Medicare did not pay a dime — just as it has never paid a dime in the years since I became eligible.
ttp://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/02/arkansas.recruiter.shooting/index.html
“Man pleads not guilty in deadly recruiting center shootings”
“I’ve also come to the conclusion that its not me thats F’d up, its you guys that are F’d up”
Now this statement could be described as the precusor to a circumstance that arouses hostility, Tiny. First, there’s the hostility in your mind. Then, there’s the hostility engendered by someone reading this statement and thinking: “Is this a@@hole talking about me?”
“But as usual Medicare did not pay a dime — just as it has never paid a dime in the years since I became eligible.”
Medicare? That govt controlled health insurance program? That Medicare? Where’s True????
“To me, the puzzling question is “Why are so many persons in our society ready and willing to take another human life?†Absent this, the other factors would not matter.”
Deep down I think a very high percentage of people are willing to commit murder under the right circumstances. Thats the problem.
“Now this statement could be described as the precusor to a circumstance that arouses hostility, Tiny.”
How about that “What the fu^k is wrong with you” look I give to people every once and a while?
“precusor to a circumstance that arouses hostility”
Like Mark going to McDonald’s time after time and thinkin’ he’s going to get the right the right sauce for his Chicken McNuggets?
“Like Mark going to McDonald’s time after time and thinkin’ he’s going to get the right the right sauce for his Chicken McNuggets?”
Like I said, deep down…..
Next time that happens Im calling 911.
“I had some insurance.”
Thank god, eh? Otherwise, you be staring a $46k bill in the face. Therein lies the real crisis facing our health care system today, to my mind. You received first class care for your heart attack, and that’s a good thing. I think our medical professionals, those on the sharp end of the stick-the doctors, nurses and techs-do a terrific job most of the time. But you get what you pay for. And no one should have necessary medical care tear their finances apart. It ain’t gonna be easy and it ain’t gonna be cheap, but it’s time to join the rest of civilization and treat health care availability as something all Americans deserve.
Mark I’ve been watching MSNBC nothing there or on the Website.
I see this story ‘Black man did it’ hoax sparks outrage’
and this story
‘Slain abortion doctor: ‘They need me”
But not that other one. I guess MSNBC Isn’t the place to go for the truth after all.
“How about that “What the fu^k is wrong with you†look I give to people every once and a while?”
Yup, that too. ‘Cause, as Deacon says, there are alot of hostile people out there willing to commit murder, given enough provocation.
“It ain’t gonna be easy and it ain’t gonna be cheap, but it’s time to join the rest of civilization and treat health care availability as something all Americans deserve.”
Until the Govt takes a crack at actually funding medicare and medicaid, and solving that financial catastrophe, this govt guaranteed health care for all idea is a politcal stunt. Its never going to happen. Every bailout is another brick in the wall between the uninsured and govt health care.
“Until the Govt takes a crack at actually funding medicare and medicaid, and solving that financial catastrophe, this govt guaranteed health care for all idea is a politcal stunt.”
Rome wasn’t built in a day, Deacon. I acknowledge the challenges facing universal health care. I think it starts with the attitude that it needs to be done. We put a man on the moon about 10 years after we determined that we were going to do it. Our leadership made the decsion to get it done, and they did it.
Like we were talking about earlier, it’s all about choices.
“But it does worry me when I see people all around me not taking responsibility for their own actions. And I wonder how we got that way. ”
Perhaps it might help to consider that “taking responsibility for your actions” is a social construct. Our primate ancestors probably weren’t too concerned about taking responsibility for their actions. And their actions were probably all about taking or trying to take whatever they wanted.
Evolutionarily speaking, we are still a work in progress, both biologically and socially.
DB I find disagreeing with Parthian (and the ensuing discussion) to consistently be vigorous and entertaining — as does 6DJ I’m sure. At least I know if he’ll criticize what I’m saying, rather than just say “you idiot” or “bu11sh1t!” like someone else.
Parth, you’re actually telling my why guns HAVE BEEN a problem. I’m not disagreeing with you that gun ownership has a correlation to gun crime. But correlation and causation aren’t the same thing.
So you can bemoan how we got to our current state — that’s fine. But since the cat’s already out of the bag with regard to gun ownership, how will goverment bans reduce gun crime?
———–
So Pawlenty is not going to seek a third term…wow. I think I’m about 0 for 4 on predictions with him…dang.
“I’ve come to the conclusion that 95% of the people living in Trailer Parks or in the inner city want to live that way.â€
cop out
“Rome wasn’t built in a day, Deacon.”
You think this is a new idea with Obama? Like True loves to point out this idea started with Truman 60 years ago.
” I think it starts with the attitude that it needs to be done. ”
We’ve had that for a while. Now how do we get there, living in the real world of course. The real world where this country is bankrupt no less.
“Like we were talking about earlier, it’s all about choices.”
What would you like to give up to get 100% coverage? Ill cover the kids and any adult getting education or job training. Ill cover the elderly too. Id be willing to cut way back on the military to do it. But I cant take any expansion of the govt controlling health care for all seriously until I see them fix medicare first. Its like deciding your going to put a new 3 season porch on your house while its burning down. Its idiotic to even discuss it before medicare is solvent.
“But I cant take any expansion of the govt controlling health care for all seriously until I see them fix medicare first.”
Yup, that’s a big problem. We could probably take a few pointers from the VA health care system, which was in a bad way as little as 15 years ago but has shaped up tremendously, although you wouldn’t know it from the media.
And I disagree that this country has the attitude that it needs to be done. I can hear the D2 types screaming “Soci@lism!!!” right now. I question whether the will to fight this type of game-changing program through exists in Congress also. Why should they-they have the best medical benefits program on the planet.
No, in this country, it’s still every man for himself. Even though we’re paying for it anyway….
“cop out”
So is saying they’re forced to live there by their upbringing or by society in general, Sarge. At some point, you have to look at the man in the mirror.
“I can hear the D2 types screaming “Soci@lism!!!†right now.”
You’ll never have 100% agreement on anything in a democracy. D2 represents a small number of people. I think the majority can agree that we should have a system that covers more people. I think people want some changes until they see the price tag and the 50/50 proposition of it being any better than it is now.
“No, in this country, it’s still every man for himself. Even though we’re paying for it anyway…”
You should be careful with this type of rhetoric, True Blue might call you a liar. So you dont think Obama getting his plan through congress is a slam dunk?
“At some point, you have to look at the man in the mirror.”
Ive been through the South Side of Chicago a few times. Always during the day. Ive never seen violence in front of me in any other city in the day light other than in Chicago. I saw a guy get pulled out of his car and beaten up and robbed in the middle of the day. I saw a lady have her pursue grabbed by two guys while crossing the street and dragged into the intersection, also during the day. I know a public school teacher in Chicago and he describes it as total lawlessness in the school system. I can see how its easy for a persons spirit to get crushed in an environment like that. The small minority might internalize everything and rize above regardless. And if you dont thats on you. But you certainly were born into a situation that few people have overcome and lived to tell about it.
But as a group, the people on the south side need to do a better job raising their kids.
“So you dont think Obama getting his plan through congress is a slam dunk?”
In a word-no. Remember what happened to Hillary back in the 90′s? There is FAR too much money involved for the insurance industry to just roll over and play dead.
And, again, I don’t think the will is there. “Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.”
“Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.â€
The unfunded obligations in medicare are staggering. I have to laugh when the cute little partisans come out and chear on their govt controlled health care plans from Obama. They remind me of Cubs fans.
I dont think you can put health care reform behind trivial things the BCS in College football. But until you’ve come up with some semi plausible way to fix medicare, Im not falling for more political grandstanding from carear politicians. I think universal health care can and should take a back seat to the plans we already have that are falling apart under the weight of the govts mismanagement and neglect.
Claiming cost savings from govt efficiency is like a drunk telling his batered wife he wont hit her again and has sworn off the bottle.
“Claiming cost savings from govt efficiency is like a drunk telling his batered wife he wont hit her again and has sworn off the bottle.”
Ya, that’s the image that most people out there have of govt programs. I was serious about the VA model, though. It’s a success story, but you’ll never hear about it in Washington or the media. Google “Best Care Anywhere” by Phillip Longman and tell me what you think.
“this govt guaranteed health care for all idea is a politcal stunt.”
Its a coordinated effort to get the herd moving in the right direction. I think if the healthcare industry starts seeing real ideas on the table it may scare them into implementing their own changes thus making any government move moot.
“Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.â€
Yeah, it’d be nice but tiny’s labotomy needs to be taken care of first.
“Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.â€
Yeah, it’d be nice but Globull Warming needs to be taken care of first.
“I was serious about the VA model, though. It’s a success story”
Exceptions to every rule right? Im overly skeptical that Govt can pull this off in the United States. Even if they did, Im skeptical that they could run it with any degree of compassion or efficiency.
“Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.â€
Yeah, it’d be nice but TrueBlues Krugman fetish needs to be taken care of first.
“Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.â€
Yeah, it’d be nice but parthians breath needs to be taken care of first.
“Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.â€
Yeah, it’d be nice but the cannibal polar bears need to be taken care of first.
“Yeah, it’d be nice but(fill in your favorite issue) needs to be taken care of first.â€
Yeah, it’d be nice but deacons colostomy bag needs to be taken care of first.
Monty,
Im sure the VA hospitals are really nice. The question I have is not is the care good and clean. Can we pay for it? Shake the medicare 8 ball and all signs point to no.
On second thought, what the hell. Pass the legislation and lets just destroy the currency by printing a little more and hoping China decides they want to finance the American health care system out of the kindness of their hearts.
“China decides they want to finance the American health care system out of the kindness of their hearts.”
Why not? they got the Hummer. May as well give it all to them.
Good thing for me I love General Tso’s chicken. I knew I should have taken Mandarin in High School and not Spanish.
“Can we pay for it?”
Well, that’s my point. We already are, the benefits are just divied up unevenly. Now, unlike Tiny, I don’t think everything in life has to be 100% fair(I’m kidding, Tiny!), but that doesn’t mean market driven health care can’t be improved upon.
Check this link out:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html
It’s an article Longman wrote in ’05 before he published a book of the same name on the subject in ’07.
I know it’s hard for alot of Americans to get their mind around the idea of a govt program actually working, but that’s simply because people arn’t critical enough of the words “always” and “never”.
“We already are, the benefits are just divied up unevenly.”
So your solution is rationing? Some people are using too much health care and should be using less? I almost never use any, so who’s using too much? The elderly, the sick? Who gives up some of their’s so others get some? Im not using any so I guess Ill give some health care up when Im sick and elderly, sort of like they do in Canada.
“I know it’s hard for alot of Americans to get their mind around the idea of a govt program actually working, but that’s simply because people arn’t critical enough of the words “always†and “neverâ€.”
Rarely, rarely is a better word. But lets start with the mess we already have. If, IF medicare was solvent, Id be on board to deal with this. IF. As it is we cant start growing entitlement programs when we cant pay for what we already have. Throw Social Security into that mix (which we could dedicate years of legislative man hours to and still not solve) and it doesnt look good for universal health care.
“We already are, the benefits are just divied up unevenly.â€
We have the highest per capita health care costs in the industrialized world. We also have one of the worst health care delivery systems in that same world. We’re ALL paying for it, insured or not, in one form or another.
There problem is market driven health care-in it’s present form in the US-is very inefficient. Boiled down to the basics, market driven health care is concerned with the short term. While this may be good for the insurer, it’s not a good plan for the insuree.
6DJ made a point last weekend that a preventative approach to medicine is more expensive. In the short term, maybe. But not in the long term. A stitch in time saves nine. Catching developing heart disease and dealing with it through diet, exercise, and, if necessary, drugs, is more cost efficient in the long term than a $46k trip to the hospital for stents.
It’s not about rationing. It’s about changing the way health care is accessed and used in the US.
Well, you’ve got to remember that the VA is actual gub’mint-provided health care paid for and provided by actual gub’mint employees. As part of our (very expensive) militarism.
The Obama reform plan (to the extent it even exists) are just about trying to find a way for everyone to buy a (private) insurance product for getting services from (private) providers.
We aren’t discussing universal health care by the gub’mint at all. In fact, the whole battle is shaping up over whether the legislation will provide a new gub’mint insurance plan that people can buy—presumably for an affordable price—instead of being forced to operate exclusively in the capitalist health insurance market. That’s the most “progressive” thing that can come out of this battle, and it likely won’t happen.
Suffice it to say, pro-competition (ha-ha) “conservatives” don’t want there to be a public option for their beloved insurance companies to compete with. Big Ins Cos like crony capitalism, not actual competition.
But we’re so far from having a VA-type actual government-run health care system for all that it’s beyond theoretical. We only give bennies like that to our heroic soldiers!
John I, what reasons did medicare give for refusing to pay for your heart attack?
Why weren’t you eligible?
“Good thing for me I love General Tso’s chicken.”
Me too, but,
You sure it’s really chicken?
“But we’re so far from having a VA-type actual government-run health care system for all that it’s beyond theoretical.”
This is true, Parth. Ya gotta start somewhere. I realize that I’ll probably be long gone before the health care system evolves to anything like the VA model. But I can dream, can’t I?
“It’s not about rationing. It’s about changing the way health care is accessed and used in the US.”
We cant affoard it short or long term with the fiscal and demographic problems we have. I know preventative care is the way to do this. Howeverm thats, like saying we could cross the universe if we could create a worm hole. Great, we’ve identified the solution. Now, how do we get there? What are you willing to give up? Id be willing to do some rationing. Thats what Canada does. But we need to be honest about it.
“You sure it’s really chicken?”
A few years back our cat disappeared, along with 3/4s of the neighborhood cats, over one weekend in November.
We didn’t get chinese for over a month…
“I can dream, can’t I”
Of course, it’s a great dream and could be realized. But we’d have to spend a lot less on others things—like the bloated military for starters.
Our militarism is one of the main reasons we can’t “afford” universal health care. Being captive to a massive for-profit health care industry(insurers and providers) and highly overpaid MDs (whose supply is intentionally constricted) is another.
All sorts of things “could” be done to health care which would make it more available and cheaper. It just means many rich and powerful people, corporations and interests would lose money or tax dollars, so they spend all their efforts scaring the public into thinking that our “great” health care “system” will be destroyed if the status quo powers don’t keep runnin’ the for-profit show.
So is saying they’re forced to live there by their upbringing or by society in general, Sarge. At some point, you have to look at the man in the mirror.
No I didn’t say that Monty – I said it’s complicated. Simple one-liner style solutions are unrealistic and a waste of time, no better than hand-wringing.
…and I HATE Michael Jackson (at least anything he did after 1979).
But as a group, the people on the south side need to do a better job raising their kids.
…says the married guy who works in a bank and lives in a decent neighborhood. Again – it’s more complicated than just judging a whole group of people and saying “they need to do a better job of raising their kids.” That’s like telling the 20 million unemployed Americans that they just need to go out and get a job.
“…and I HATE Michael Jackson (at least anything he did after 1979).”
Agreed. Sorry to conjure up that visual image.
I agree it’s complicated. Deacon had a great post about the South Side. I’m lucky as heck that I didn’t have to try to climb out of that morass. I didn’t mean it as a cure-all. I DO think we are ultimately responsible for our own lives, however.
“says the married guy who works in a bank and lives in a decent neighborhood.”
Did you read the rest of the post? I think I explained what I ment. I see you jumped on the one part that would be likely to tick you off and ignored the rest of the post that basically agreed with you and blamed the system. I could call you a moron, but wont.
The system in places like the South Side of Chicago makes it virtually impossible to suceed. But like most things thats only part of the equation. If you think that all people living in that part of the country are universally brilliant parents, you dont know what your talking about.
Here it is again Sgt….
“You have to climb the mountain. For some they were born somewhere further up the mountain than others. Kids born into a drug infested Ghetto in Chicago with one or no sober working parents and few education or job opportunities not only have to climb the mountain, they also have to dodge the inevitable avalanche on the way up.
But it is possible to get out. It happens all the time.”
Deep down I think a very high percentage of people are willing to commit murder under the right circumstances. Thats the problem.
I think everyone should be willing to kill someone under the right circumstances. Self-preservation and the preservation of people you love. Would you kill someone to save your daughter’s life? Of course. There’s nothing wrong with that.
…says the married guy who works in a bank and lives in a decent neighborhood.
Ahhh… the Democrat calling card. “You’re rich, so you can’t understand anything.” How do you know Mark didn’t grow up in the slums of Buffalo (NY)? I know he didn’t, but did you?
When did it become a bad thing to be successful? It’s comments like that that look down on successful people that makes it “cool” to be rolling around on the streets with your rims, your 9′s, and riding dirty.
“You’re rich, so you can’t understand anything.â€
Im not rich. IM too young to be rich yet. And I think I did a pretty good job explaining that not everyone standing on third base hit a tripple. The people on the South Side of Chi living in the Ghetto live in some of the worst conditions in the United States. It isnt easy. But as soon as you stop taking responsibility for yourself the game is over for you. At that point you’ll get whatever the system sees fit to give you which isnt much. I can certainly see why people who grow up like that can have their spirits crushed. But like Monty and SgtP have said its complicated.
“Al-Qaida criticizes Obama’s upcoming Cairo speech”
This trip to Egypt worries me. Did Bush ever go to Egypt? I don’t trust their security. I’ve wondered why Egypt seems so quit the last 8 years. Does that government make payoffs like the Saudis do?
Tiny,
Katherine misses you!
kerstenblog.startribune.com/kerstenblog/
Deacon Blues says:
June 2nd, 2009 at 7:14 am
Re. If they’ve got game they’ll want to defeat the odds.
“Basketball, Derrick Rose? Are you being racist?”
Baseball, Kirby Puckett, am I?
Later this month I’m scheduled for a diversity training seminar. Not remedial but a periodical requirement for all staff. I don’t mind. I think of it as CPR for the complacent and culturally clueless as well as for latent racists. Had yours lately DB, in case you run into bad bad Leroy Brown? Word up. Life you save might be yo(ur) own.
Tiny bulbs says:
June 2nd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Re. Al-Qaida criticizes Obama’s upcoming Cairo speech
“This trip to Egypt worries me. Did Bush ever go to Egypt? I don’t trust their security. I’ve wondered why Egypt seems so quit the last 8 years. Does that government make payoffs like the Saudis do?”
I can’t see harm coming to the most significant figure to visit Egypt since the Pharoahs from the upper Nile. Harm would come instead to any movement that sought to make a martyr of him.
John E lacono says “It seems to me that it takes four things for a murder to take place:
>a circumstance which arouses hostility;
>a person willing to commit murder;
>the opportunity to obtain a suitable weapon; and
>the opportunity to use it.”
Mark says “Deep down I think a very high percentage of people are willing to commit murder under the right circumstances. Thats the problem.”
If John’s item two is an almost universal trait then we’re left with the Big Three of forensics: Means, Motive and Opportunity. Survival 101 suggests that if you’re going to give someone motive to kill you, then certainly don’t give him /her the opportunity.
“Claiming cost savings from govt efficiency is like a drunk telling his batered wife he wont hit her again and has sworn off the bottle.”
“…Or telling your neglected wife you won’t ignore her again and have sworn off blogging,(as Greg must have done.)
“Claiming cost savings from govt efficiency is like a drunk telling his batered wife he wont hit her again and has sworn off the bottle.”
Or telling your neglected wife you won’t ignore her again and have sworn off blogging(as Greg must have done.)
Did you read the rest of the post?
Yeah, I read your whole post DB. Are you so unsophisticated that you assumed I simply disagreed that last sentence? I was pretty unimpressed by entire post. It shows a real lack of original thought — you’d have fit in well in the Soviet Union.
Monty says “It’s not about rationing. It’s about changing the way health care is accessed and used in the US…The problem is market driven health care-in it’s present form in the US-is very inefficient. Boiled down to the basics, market driven health care is concerned with the short term. While this may be good for the insurer, it’s not a good plan for the insuree.”
Well said. And furthermore the profitability of private health insurance and HMO plans sold to private individuals not already in large workforce risk pools is based upon exclusion: prohibitive rates for pre-existing conditions and premiums based on risk factors calculated by insurance bureaucrats.
Despite HIPPA and other privacy protections there’s surprisingly little information about ourselves that isn’t out there and available in some form. Ultimately if you don’t need the insurance you can get it cheap. If you do need it you’ll go bankrupt even if you’ve got money. Ironic if that money came from a portfolio including large holdings in the Health Care
Sector.
Anyone find a source on the percent of pysicians who would actually prefer a single payor system allowing them to practice medicine themselves instead of rationing services per corporate policy?
“It shows a real lack of original thought — you’d have fit in well in the Soviet Union.”
Whats your original contribution of thought to the situiation? That the schools and crime are bad in the inner city and that its really hard to grow up there? Wow, Im impressed.
“Two convicted killers who escaped from a high-security prison unit in Arkansas have been spotted in West Michigan.”
Almost forgot
“We house people in Maximum-security prisons all the time”
“Are you so unsophisticated that you assumed I simply disagreed that last sentence?”
What else did you disagree with? Do you disagree that a ghetto in Chicago is the kind of place where a persons spirit might be crushed? Or the part that a person is ultimatley responsible for themselves. I understand you dont think parenting needs to be addressed, but what else did you disagree with, specifically? Besides my originality.
“Had yours lately DB, in case you run into bad bad Leroy Brown?”
My latent racism is in check. Accept for the Polaks. I had those bastards and Im not affraid to say it.
Speaking of Gitmo. I just happen to catch 2 seconds of Oblermann last night. The smart @ss that he trys to be he said something like “The Guards that deliberately gave a diabetic GITMO Prisoner candy barsâ€
Can any of you Nutjobs tell me what the hell he is talking about?
“Witnesses balk, suspect in Minneapolis killing walks”
I want you un-realists to read that story and pay attention to the names.
Gezz witnesses recanting, witnesses leaving the state…. Sounds like the Soprano!
Deep down I think a very high percentage of people are willing to commit murder under the right circumstances.
Were it up to me, I’d legalize murder, with each person being allowed ot kill one person, for one day out of the year.
Imagine a society where everyone gets 364 days to contemplate how they treat others.
“Were it up to me, I’d legalize murder, with each person being allowed ot kill one person, for one day out of the year.”
I have always thought the same thing but an allotment of only one.
“The Guards that deliberately gave a diabetic GITMO Prisoner candy barsâ€
Well, it depends on what kind of diabetic we’re talking about, but I assume the point Olbermann was trying to make is they had malice aforethought in giving the prisoners the candy bars, so they were trying to induce hyperglycemic shock-put too much sugar in their system and, if given too much, kill ‘em.
monty I searched the great internet and found nothing about this happening?
Surely you don’t think Olberman is fibbing, do you Tiny? I’m certain no major news organization would stretch the truth of a story to fit their particular agenda.
Sarcasm aside, did you look on CNBCs site?
“Surely you don’t think Olberman is fibbing, do you Tiny?”
Not unless he signed up with Fox. Only Fox lies.
Whats your original contribution of thought to the situiation?
It’s pretty simple DB: I don’t have an answer to the situation. I know enough about it to realize that it’s beyond my understanding.
What fun is this blog if you cant engage in wild eyed speculation? Original thought though. You’re certainly the first to admit to lack of understanding.
I don’t have an answer to the situation.
So let’s criticize people who aren’t too lazy to attempt to figure it out. Let’s all give up!
What else did you disagree with?
I think saying that people need to do a better job of parenting is an absurd oversimplification DB. It remided me of my time working in the former Soviet Union. We’d ask people, “What do you think needs to happen here in ____stan in order for things to get better?” They’d say, “We need money” or “We need jobs.”
I don’t know the Russian equivalent of “No sh1t?” but it demonstrated how Stalin selectively bred out original thinkers from the Soviet Union’s workers. Back in the 1920s and 1930s during forced collectivization, Stalin (a professional revolutionary) proceeded to dictate to sustainence peasants and kulaks how to grow wheat. Millions died. When people disagreed with this policy (i.e. demonstrated original thought) they were either shipped off to the GULag or executed. It worked exceptionally well. That’s one of the many many reasons why the Soviet Union failed.
I think a similar phenomenon is happening today in America – only the difference is, conservative activists promote “common sense” solutions and garage logic as superior to actual analysis and intellectual debate. Tiny knows all about this, crying “b.s.” when someone points out that the roots of that problem are complex. So instead of trying to understand the underlying root causes and address them in a practical way (that doesn’t involve massive government programs), we get people like you who toss out platitudes like, “People need to be better parents” or “We need to bring back family values.” — which contribute nothing, and so nothing will change.
“I think saying that people need to do a better job of parenting is an absurd oversimplification DB.”
Wow thats great. Because if you read the whole thread you’d know thats not even close to all that I said.
“So instead of trying to understand the underlying root causes and address them in a practical way (that doesn’t involve massive government programs), we get people like you who toss out platitudes like, “People need to be better parents†or “We need to bring back family values.†— which contribute nothing, and so nothing will change.”
Nice coming from Mr. I have no idea. And Im not a conservative activist. It just happens to be that my liberal side never comes out here because the right subjects dont come up.
By the way, like most bloggers here, maybe you think you can change things by pounding away on your keyboard and displaying your knowledge to the same collection of malcontents everyday. Im not trying to solve Chicago’s problems from my computer in Minneapolis. So if I say that people in the Chicago Ghetto need to do a better job parenting, thats because I think that they do. Whenever Im around there, kids are all over the street with no parents in sight. Maybe thats a problem? Im not trying to waive some magic wand from my ivory tower and prove to you I have the answer. Its no different than saying americans spend too much money in the suburbs. There are too many problems to count in places like Chicago to expect that one thing is the answer, I get that.
WASHINGTON – The government’s inadvertent and red-faced Internet posting of a 266-page list of U.S. nuclear sites provided a one-step guide for anyone wanting details about such sensitive information. Obama administration officials said Wednesday the document contained no classified material about nuclear weapons. They contended the locations and other details already were available from public sources.
Energy Secretary Steven Chu said “a snafu” led to the online posting. “A little embarrassing,” he acknowledged.
The document, stamped “highly confidential safeguards sensitive,” made it onto the Government Printing Office’s Web site — and why that happened was not immediately clear. A newsletter that focuses on government secrecy quickly picked up on it. The printing office removed the document when informed “about the potential sensitive nature” of the list, the agency said.
By then it was too late.
I’m sure they’ll handle health care with equal competence and efficiency.
In fact, the first forms required for the new plan are already available online.
http://www.alllaw.com/forms/wills_and_trusts/last_will_and_testam/
“I’m sure they’ll handle health care with equal competence and efficiency.”
Many of the same liberals begging for universal health care and who have no problems with the govt controlling the publics health records on massive govt servers are the same ones who sh:t bricks with the thought of the govt listening to their phone calls without a warrant.
parthian says:
John I, what reasons did medicare give for refusing to pay for your heart attack?
Why weren’t you eligible?
I was eligible, but unlike other secondary coverage, Medicare does not pay any of what the the primary imposes for co-pays or percentage contributions.
For other secondary insurers, the rule is you don’t get more than the total cost of services, but not so with Medicare.
So medicare didn’t pay because you had other insurance. Makes sense to me.
As conservative policy goons would say, you have too much insurance, John!
×œ×”×§×™× says: “Were it up to me, I’d legalize murder, with each person being allowed ot kill one person, for one day out of the year.”
An interesting satire, but needs some work. For e.g. it needs to be like seeking a legal license to kill one person who themself has a right to kill one other. License would only be granted if both parties were mutually self-referential. And if granted both parties must agree to the “duel to the dath terms.” No maiming or coma inducing substitutes. Both parties would share the film rights to the cncounter and in addition sign a waiver holding their killer harmless inevent of civil suit.
“I think a similar phenomenon is happening today in America – only the difference is, conservative activists promote “common sense†solutions and garage logic as superior to actual analysis and intellectual debate.”
You really have had a lot of Kool-Aid haven’t you Dudley. “Consevative activists” promoting “common sense” solutions are similar to Stalin’s purges.
Were you a long jumper?
Back away from the jug. Analysis, intellectual debate, and common sense all have to be part of the equation.
I like the new thread better. Tim Walz, scorning superstition, says “Yes we can.”
DB, first – I’m not a blogger, nor is anyone else who posts here. Koz is a blogger, the people who run Newsbusters.org are bloggers. My buddy is a blogger – he runs a blog. We (all of us who post here) post comments on a newspaper’s discussion forum, erroneously labeled “blogs”.
Secondly, I’m probably one of the most cynical people here. I stopped trying to solve the world’s problems 15 years ago. What I am against is B.S. and misinformaiton – that’s why I post here.
…and CS – thanks for proving my point perfectly. You can’t counter my points so you say that I’ve “drank the kool-aid”. You’ll note that the D2s and the Tiny’s of the world all have really simple answers to complex problems – there’s a reason for that.
Sgt, have a bad day yesterday? Feeling better now?
I think CS summed up the problems with your point very well. Comparing the former Soviet Union and Stalin’s management of the country and its resources to a bunch of guys in a garage saying we should do this or that because of common sense or some POSTERS on a blog over simplfying a complex problem and its potential soltions is just a little bit of a stretch. If you think any of us have been programed into conservative activists and that’s some how similar in scope or style to being in the USSR 70 years ago, your’e not just cynical you’ve also lost touch with reality. Do you think you can be summed up by what you say here everyday? Are you so arrogant to think you can sum me up from what I post here? Also, maybe you’ll note you have no answers to the complex problems either, you think that makes you some how more enlightened than the rest of us?
No DB, I had a great day yesterday actually I have a great day every day. Don’t take things personally – I can attack your posts, but it doesn’t mean I think you’re a bad guy. Tiny’s an exception to that.
I get tired of hearing the same ol’ conservative-oriented platitudes here DB. And I can’t stand the fact that we glorify ignorance in this country. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc…My favorite is this fallacy that colleges and universitys are full of liberals who indoctrinate people to become liberals, and that’s why educated people are so liberal.
If you think about this – it’s absurd. Some grand conspiracy among tens of thousands of college professors? But there are people – like D2 and Tiny – who believe there’s nothing valuable with education. And THAT is EXACTLY what Stalin believed, as did Mao, Lenin and Hitler.
DB, I’m not saying that guys sitting in a garage talking are like Stalin, I’m saying people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity thrive on ignorance, much like Stalin and the others did, and ignorance is bad for humanity.
“I get tired of hearing the same ol’ conservative-oriented platitudes here DB.”
You’re not hearing them from me all that often. Im still of the opinion that part of the problem is apathy in the family especially in a place where there seems to be no hope. Sure thats general and un original but in my mind its true all the same. Its true in the burbs too only in a different way and for different reasons. Its the reason you get things like Columbine happening.
“And I can’t stand the fact that we glorify ignorance in this country.”
So do I, which is why I dont do it. Trying to understand the layers of an issue is key. The flip side to that is I hate it when some people assume they have it all figured out and are smarter than they really are because they’ve been in a classroom and vote D. That doesnt mean you’ve figured anything out. Ive spent enough time on a truly liberal campus to know that there are scores and legions of spoiled brats who dont know sh:t because they cant get off campus to meet anyone different than them. Oh sure you;ve got it all figured out at 19, yeah. Cant balance your check book but figuring out the Israeli Palestinean conflict is no sweat.
“If you think about this – it’s absurd. Some grand conspiracy among tens of thousands of college professors?”
About as absurd as there is a giant conservative conspiracy in media?
“DB, I’m not saying that guys sitting in a garage talking are like Stalin, I’m saying people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity thrive on ignorance, much like Stalin and the others did, and ignorance is bad for humanity.”
I can buy that. But listen, hardly anyone here is a conservative activist other than you know who. So if you think making a simple statement, because this forum is only good for making simple statements and generalizations, makes a person one dimensional, you need to realize this place isnt condusive to direct dialogue and youre probably missing a great deal of background.
“About as absurd as there is a giant conservative conspiracy in media?”
What? I thought I wasn’t supposed to believe the liberal media?
“You can’t counter my points so you say that I’ve “drank the kool-aidâ€.”
If you can make the leap that you did last night there’s no point in countering your points because your on the road to becoming just like D2.
“I get tired of hearing the same ol’ conservative-oriented platitudes here DB.â€
But the same ‘ol tired librul ones are just fine with you.
“I’m saying people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity thrive on ignorance,”
And Olbermann and Maddow don’t?
“And Olbermann and Maddow don’t?”
I dont know? Is there a difference between having no inofrmation and thinking you have all of it when you really dont?
Parthian:
“So medicare didn’t pay because you had other insurance. Makes sense to me.
As conservative policy goons would say, you have too much insurance, John!”
If that’s the case, why am I still paying off over $5,000 from this bill?
Parthian,
I did not choose the coverage I have: the sequence was forced on me because my wife is still working (because we could not make it without that).
So Medicare said it would be second in line — not mentioning that meant (unlike other secondary coverage) that they would never pay a dime.
Result: if you have any other coverage at the time you qualify, you have Medicare in name only.
It was not even in the fine print, though: I guess government is not bound to what the independent industry is required to tell you.
Typical government bait and switch.
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