Government spending could have consequenses akin to the Titanic, Bachmann says

June 10th, 2009 – 11:26 AM by Eric Roper

Bachmann.JPGSpeaking on the House floor Tuesday evening, Rep Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., said that the drastic increase in government spending and influence over the private markets reminded her of the film “Titanic,” which she and her family watched over the weekend.

“We are in the process of watching the deconstruction of free market economists before our very eyes, something we have never seen,” Bachmann said. “But as the ice ripped that hole in the Titanic, water started being taken on, and the engineer came out and brought the blueprint of the Titanic. Water came into the first chamber, spilled over to the second, spilled over to the third, and by the time it filled up so many chambers, it was over. It was impossible to resurrect that ship. That’s, I think, Mr. Akin, what you have been bringing before this body this evening. You’ve been showing to the American people that at a certain point when we have such excessive levels of spending that in turn leads to such excessive level of taxation that in turn leads us to excessive levels of borrowing that at a certain point we wonder what that tipping point will be if the United States will not be able to recover.”

She added, “If we follow that plan that President Obama has put before us, we know what that outcome will be and a lot of very innocent people may go down with that ship.”

She went on to say that the government takeover of several automotive companies, and the appeals in Washington by dealership owners to keep their businesses open, are akin to a “gangster government.”

“We have gangster government when the Federal Government has set up a new cartel and private businesses now have to go begging with their hand out to their local – hopefully well politically connected – Congressman or their Senator so they can buy a peace offering for that local business. Is that the kind of country we are going to have in the future?” Bachmann said.

The Star Tribune reported this morning about two bills before Congress which will take some of the weight off of ailing auto dealerships.

61 Responses to "Government spending could have consequenses akin to the Titanic, Bachmann says"

6th district Jim says:

June 10th, 2009 at 11:45 am

Well, she is late to this party.
The oracle was saying this last month: that massive banana republic type inflation is the only way to “stabilize” this level of debt. Poor China, doesnt want to hold our debt, but cant dump it either. Kinda funny.

And yes, the squeezing of secured creditors or local dealerships in the auto deals is truly awe inspiring.
I do wonder what this country will be like in five years…..
at least the Titanic had a sense of honor amongst the victims, to watch to the Palin rips yesterday makes me believe this country deserves its fate.

ie people bemoan a 59-41 majority still deprives the majority of a “Truth Commission.” We have idiots for leaders, and we are getting what we deserve.
2010, hope and change?

6th district Jim says:

June 10th, 2009 at 11:47 am

And how about a thread on the Messiah’s plan for pay-as-you-go budget process?
:o )
It truly is a theatre of the absurd, and I hope the usual cadre of lefties sit at home with red clown noses on, while they blog here……

parthian says:

June 10th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

Well, I guess a junior extremist member of the House GOoP like Michele B. would know a thing or two about being on the Titanic when it when down! Better use your looks to get on that lifeboat, Darlin M!

And she’s never seen Titanic before this weekend? Sounds dubious as always…

The NYT had an interesting article on the making of the current deficits yesterday—-”How the US Surplus became a Deficit”, by D Leonhardt. Examining the swing from projected $800 billion annual surpluses for 2009 to $1.2 trillion annual deficits, the writers found that only 7% of the new deficit results from the Obama stimulus package and 3% from his other proposed new programs.

The overwhelming percentage of the current deficits result from the business cycle (mainly the Repub-created Great Recession), the Bushco tax cuts and endless deficit spending, and finally, Obama’s continuation of Bushco policies like tax cuts for the richest and Bush’s War(s), which Repubs obviously support. These items made up 90% of the expected deficit for 2009.

So that’s the reality, but it could never in a million years penetrate into the hopeless chaos and deadly toxins that pollute Darlin Michele’s “conservative” mind. No matter, she is a person of no consequence and influence in the Congress—Loyal Bachmannistaners like 6DJ might as well have no DC rep at all!

Why Dems don’t explain these facts while GOoPer loons like Bachmann spread their “conservative” disinformation and falsehood is simply inexplicable.

Deacon Blues says:

June 10th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

“And she’s never seen Titanic before this weekend?”

I bet you own a copy dont you Parth!! Im king of the World Woo Hooooo!!!! Yeah!!

” (mainly the Repub-created Great Recession) ”

You wish.

“Why Dems don’t explain these facts while GOoPer loons like Bachmann spread their “conservative” disinformation and falsehood is simply inexplicable.”

Because the word Democrat is a synonym for impotent.

parthian says:

June 10th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Whoops, Obama doesn’t support continuation of Bushco’s “tax cuts for the richest” (as I wrote above)—he just supports continuing the Bushco tax cuts for those making less than $250,000.

Which Repubs also support—so more hypocrisy by Darlin Michele!

adlib says:

June 10th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

“We are in the process of watching the deconstruction of free market economists before our very eyes, something we have never seen.”

Usually these economists do their decontruction in private.

“…and alot of very innocent people may go down with that ship.”

Innocent maybe. Very innocent? Methinks she doth protest too much.

“…private businesses have to go begging with their hand out to their local – hopefully well politically connected – Congressman or Senator…”

Maybe MB should step up the rhetoric and stop being nice to these gangsters.
Then they might give her anything she asks just to make her desist.

adlib says:

June 10th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

“We are in the process of watching the deconstruction of free market economists before our very eyes, something we have never seen.”

Usually these economists do their deconstruction in private.

“…and alot of very innocent people may go down with that ship.”

Innocent maybe. Very innocent? Methinks she doth protest too much.

“…private businesses have to go begging with their hand out to their local – hopefully well politically connected – Congressman or Senator…”

Maybe MB should step up the rhetoric and stop being nice to these gangsters.
Then they might give her anything she asks just to make her desist.

adlib says:

June 10th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

“Because the word Democrat is a synonym for impotent.”

Sounds like a self-impotent verdict.

O.T. says:

June 10th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

Parthian had breaking news: The NYTimes blames Bush for something. Wow. I find it fascinating that the Slimes had all the problems with Bush’s programs (that Obama is continuing almost wholly), said his deficit was too high (which Obammy quadruple in three months), and put the blame for the economic crisis (which is early all of the democrat senate and congress;s fault).
Keep reading the Slimes, Dailykos, and Huff Post, Parth- it is exactly what you need to be reading for your mentality.

O.T. says:

June 10th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

Parthian had breaking news: The NYTimes blames Bush for something. Wow. I find it fascinating that the Slimes had all the problems with Bush’s programs (that Obama is continuing almost wholly), said his deficit was too high (which Obammy quadruple in three months), and put the blame for the economic crisis (which is nearly all of the democrat senate and congress;s fault).
Keep reading the Slimes, Dailykos, and Huff Post, Parth- it is exactly what you need to be reading for your mentality.

CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER says:

June 10th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

“And she’s never seen Titanic before this weekend? Sounds dubious as always…”

Hey Parth, Check those first sentences again. May I suggest reading slower, I know the 5th grade level has been tough on you all these years.

This explains a lot.

adlib says:

June 10th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

“And she’s never seen Titanic before this weekend? Sounds dubious as always…”

She’d probably seen it before. But after due consideration she saw it again for the first time.

adlib says:

June 10th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

“And she’s never seen Titanic before this weekend? Sounds dubious as always…”

She’d probably seen it before but it probably made a bigger impression each time she saw it again.

oldbeatnik says:

June 10th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

There are many reasons for the current deficet, one we are finally counting the cost of two wars, something Bush never did, two the one time stimulous package, three the recession, which will eventually stop.
Discontinue the Bush era tax cuts, get people to work, end the recession and cut the Pentagon budget and we will end deficet spending. It’s always interesting how conservatives want less spending but never mention the bloated Pentagon as a way of doing it. There are something like 3,200 Generals in the Pentagon, do we really need that many? There is so much waste and fraud there it is dispicable. We need a Truman style committee to look into it, then actual savings can be achieved and deficets made to go away.

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 8:16 am

I am just going to throw this in and wait for Parth and Dora to tell us us how they are going to blame Bush for this too:

The price of oil burst through the $71 a barrel mark today amid revelations that proven reserves had fallen for the first time in 10 years and predictions that the price could eventually hit $250.

The latest high – from lows of $30 only four months ago – came on the New York Mercantile Exchange, where the cost of July deliveries rose by $1.35 to $71.36.

This comes on top of a $2 rise the day before as investors rushed into the market on the back of lower stockpile figures, higher demand estimates and speculation against further falls in the dollar.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re testing $80 in a week or two,” said one analyst, while BP’s chief executive, Tony Hayward, questioned whether $90 could be the “right” value.

Is Bush still getting his oil buddies rich? That has to be the answer, right?

parthian says:

June 11th, 2009 at 9:08 am

OT, you really have no memory, do you? You also cannot think, it’s quite amazing.

What you are writing about is the phenomenon called Peak Oil, which I FREQUENTLY invoked at BQ years ago, and which you always denied. Peak Oil is not Bushco’s fault, although I think they were reacting to it with their decision to liberate Iraq’s oil from Saddam. Iraq likely has more reserves still to discover than any country.

As I said time after time after time—the world has less than 30 years of oil remaining at today’s annual global rates of consumption. Oil production is going to fall off—not because we refuse to drill or find it, but because the oil just isn’t there anymore—especially in the US. World production is now starting to decline; it will decline forever.

That means the price will start to increase and will continue to increase without cessation—and there’s NOTHING any politician anywhere can do about it.

A some point, some prez will have to tell the rubes (like you) the truth: The era of cheap oil (and energy) is over. Gas guzzling has to cease. It never should have been allowed to continue in the first place—and we can blame both parties for that error.

But “conservatives” (as always) are in the deepest denial and have nothing to propose, other than Palinesque comedy about “Drill, Baby, Drill”

parthian says:

June 11th, 2009 at 9:30 am

CS—THAT’S what you thought worth responding to in my deficit post?

You really are a complete lame-o.

Why do you waste your time on political blogs?—you know nothing and have nothing to say to boot. Why not spend more time fishing or bowling?

CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER says:

June 11th, 2009 at 10:18 am

“You really are a complete lame-o.”

But at least I can comprehend the written word!!

“Why do you waste your time on political blogs?”

Because I love to tweak naval gazing thumb suckers like you.

Jay says:

June 11th, 2009 at 10:25 am

The era of cheap oil is gone as long as the dollar continues to get de-valued and oil continues to trade in US dollars……with or without the theory/phenomenon of Peak Oil that parthian endorses. Peak Oil didn’t result in $1.25/gal gas last fall, just as Peak Oil isn’t responsible for $70+/barrel crude today, or $147/barrel crude last year. Those moves were/are speculation driven, and US dollar influenced.

Long-term, I think its very fair to expect energy prices to continue to rise in a reasonably orderly upward trending manner, rather than the volatile day-to-day price movements we are seeing now. The reason being that whether you subscribe to Peak Oil thinking or not, the available reserves are becoming increasingly more expensive to recover, due to their locations. That’s in addition to increased demand in emerging economies, obviously.

In the short-term, strength is the US dollar is going to be the driving force behind energy, metal, and food prices for a while. The price of soybeans is high, but thats not due to some “Peak Soybean” phenomenon.

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am

I believe your memory is clouded by your hatred of the right. So, now you are saying that you have never stated that “Bushco” and pals were getting rich off of high oil prices? If I really gave a flying eff what you think, I would go back and find a few to jog your memory, but alas, I care not what you think.

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am

Here is something else I found interesting that I read.

The man accused of opening fire at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC on June 10, James W. von Brunn, left a trail of unhinged writings around the internet.

The anti-semitism of von Brunn is the first thing one notices when visiting these bizarre websites. However, like those of most “white supremacists”, many of von Brunn’s political views track “Left” rather than “Right.” Clearly, a re-evaluation of these obsolete definitions is long overdue.

For example, he unleashed his hatred of both Presidents Bush and other “neo-conservatives” in online essays. As even some “progressives” such as the influential Adbusters magazine publicly admit, “neoconservative” is often used as a derogatory code word for “Jews”. As well, even a cursory glance at “white supremacist” writings reveals a hatred of, say, big corporations that is virtually indistinguishable from that of anti-globalization activists.

I notice that you use the term, neocons quite a bit. I guess I am to infer you are anti-semitic also then.

Deacon Blues says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am

“Because I love to tweak naval gazing thumb suckers like you.”

I see him as a 6 die rolling pimpled dork that no one understands other than him mommy.

parthian says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am

Ha-ha, CS, given that you “responded” in less than an hour, I guess we can include you in the “navel gazing thumb sucking” blog contingent, whatever that means. Hurry, go check out what someone posted on T&A now!

OT, first you post something to see what I’ll say about it, then you declare you (supposedly) don’t care what I think. What a madhouse it must be inside your “mind”….you never did understand my argument about Bushco and oil and you never will.

“the available reserves are becoming increasingly more expensive to recover, due to their locations…”

Um, as I’ve told you for years now, that’s a big part of peak oil theory, whether you want to acknowlege it or not. Producers are having to go after the least attractive reserves now. Most people don’t understand that.

And thinking long term (i.e. 10 years) it won’t really matter what currency oil is priced in, it’ll be prohibitively expensive in ALL currencies. And it’ll be worse for us if oil is not traded in dollars.

The Great Recession is resulting in a slight reprieve on gas prices through decreased demand—but even the Great Recession might not be able to keep prices “low” for much longer. If one owns wasteful gas guzzlers and resides in the exurbs, you’re doomed as an economic entity unless you start making alternate arrangements—now.

As to last year’s oil bubble, jay, what did you make of the CFTC report of last summer declaring that the bubble was likely not due to speculation?

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:58 am

I see you did not take any umbrage at being called out as anti-semitic. You also do not deny saying many time that Bush and his neocon buddies, bushco was responsible for the gas prices. Face it, the only person who understands your rants are yourself and maybe your court ordered therapist. So, rant on, jewhater. I do not care what you think, I only like to point out your idiocy, your inaccuracies and your inconsistencies.

wishIwuz2 says:

June 11th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

There has been a time or two (well OK, one time) when I was almost on the same side of an issue as Michelle. But she dramatizes her points with such cartoonish scenarios that I hide my face and make for the exit. Even when her point makes sense, she still doesn’t.

Jay says:

June 11th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

“Um, as I’ve told you for years now, that’s a big part of peak oil theory”

Not really…..but that hasn’t stopped you from saying so over and over, as you mention. The difference is that Peak Oil contends that we are running out, and that’s the last of what is left. The opposing viewpoint is that the places that are left contain more than adequate deposits, they are just challenging to access. There is a very material difference there.

“jay, what did you make of the CFTC report of last summer declaring that the bubble was likely not due to speculation?”

Not much, as that report was quickly followed by the CFTC having to admit that upwards of 80% of the open interest in crude oil trading at that time was speculative in nature. Perhaps you missed that.

Jay says:

June 11th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

“The Great Recession is resulting in a slight reprieve on gas prices through decreased demand”

I’m unsure where you’re drawing that conclusion. Emerging markets are still expanding (though at a slower rate than 06-07) and increasing their demand for petroleum products. Meanwhile, the demand for petroleum in the US as been falling for several years now (since 2002 I believe but don’t quote me on that), with or without any recession, per DOE stats if you wish to confiorm.

Thus, the “Great Recession” hasn’t had much of a game-changing impact domestically (ie we are still reducing our demand as we were prior to it) or globally (ie they are still growing). Therefore, the “reprieve” that you mention is due to something other than that. We can argue the cause if you wish, but i think we can safely rule out your initial guess. Wanna take another stab?

parthian says:

June 11th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

“World crude oil and liquid fuels consumption remains below year-ago levels. Total consumption during the 4th Qtr 2008 was 2.8 million bbl/day below 4th Qtr 2007 levels because of the global economic downturn. The year-over-year decline in total consumption increased in the 1st Qtr 2009 to an estimated 3.4 million bbl/day….After falling by an average of 1.8 million bbl/day in 2009 global consumption is projected to grow by .7 million bbl/day in 2010.” EIA energy outlook, 6/9/09. As you observe, US consumption also declined. Prices have declined because of market fundamentals.

So I think I’ll stick with my first “stab”. Hopefully you don’t do any analysis work.

The later CFTC report found that somewhat under half the contracts was speculative as I recall. And they didn’t modify their main report after that finding. But I’m happy to concede that the oil bubble had a significant speculative component to it, certainly by the “end”. The wonders of unregulated capitalism.

Jay says:

June 11th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

“Prices have declined because of market fundamentals.”

Unfortunately for your argument, the price decline happened prior to the decrease in demand layed out in your report cut-n-paste. Rather, the price appreciation has happend during that time and continues today, due to the EIA projected increase in demand, as you correctly point out. For your argument to hold water, you’d need to believe that the majority of the energy-trading world saw the global economic collapse coming three months prior to it actually materializing. I’m afraid I just cannot suspend disbelief to that degree.

Prices have increased due to market fundamentals, but that was not the reason for the collapse witnessed prior to the economic downturn, as illustrated by the sequence of events.

The CFTC admission that I remember was 80%, but maybe that was part of some testimony instead of an actual hard number in a report. Regardless, it was certainly a material number in either case.

As the report states, I was incorrect about 2009 demand levels though (down 1.8 mbd)…..which appears to be coinciding with a rapid price increase. How’s that for market fundamentals at work?

parthian says:

June 11th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

Well, at least you haven’t changed a bit—change the subject after having been shown to be wrong on what you first said. Having been forced to agree that there was a global reduction in oil consumption, you now claim prices fell “before” it.

Prices fell from the height of the oil bubble to the low point of last December. World consumption was also falling at this time due to the Great Recession as the EIA report demonstrates. It’s all quite explicable.

Whatever you’re trying to say, I find it incoherent.

As for the price increases we’re seeing in the past months, OPEC cut production in response to declining world demand, remember? So I think current increases are likely fundamentals based as well.

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

Some things in politics you can’t make up, such as President Obama’s re-re-endorsement Tuesday of “pay-as-you-go” budgeting. Coming after $787 billion in nonstimulating stimulus, a $410 billion omnibus to wrap up fiscal 2009, a $3.5 trillion 2010 budget proposal, sundry bailouts and a 13-figure health-care spending expansion still to come, this latest vow of fiscal chastity is like Donald Trump denouncing self-promotion.

Check that. Even The Donald would find this one too much to sell.

But Mr. Obama must think the press and public are dumb enough to buy it, because there he was Tuesday re-selling the same “paygo” promises that Democrats roll out every election. Paygo is “very simple,” the President claimed. “Congress can only spend a dollar if it saves a dollar elsewhere.”

That’s what Democrats also promised in 2006, with Nancy Pelosi vowing that “the first thing” House Democrats would do if they took Congress was reimpose paygo rules that “Republicans had let lapse.” By 2008, Speaker Pelosi had let those rules lapse no fewer than 12 times, to make way for $400 billion in deficit spending. Mr. Obama repeated the paygo pledge during his 2008 campaign, and instead we have witnessed the greatest peacetime spending binge in U.S. history. As a share of GDP, spending will hit an astonishing 28.5% in fiscal 2009, with the deficit hitting 13% and projected to stay at 4% to 5% for years to come.

The truth is that paygo is the kind of budget gimmick that gives gimmickry a bad name. As Mr. Obama knows but won’t tell voters, paygo only applies to new or expanded entitlement programs, not to existing programs such as Medicare, this year growing at a 9.2% annual rate. Nor does paygo apply to discretionary spending, set to hit $1.4 trillion in fiscal 2010, or 40% of the budget.

This loophole matters, because on the very day Mr. Obama was hailing paygo the House Appropriations Committee was gleefully approving a 12% increase in 2010 nondefense discretionary spending, the third year running that Democrats have proposed double-digit increases. Or consider that the 2010 budget resolution included a $2 billion increase for low-income heating assistance as an entitlement change that should be subject to paygo. But Congressional Democrats simply classified it as discretionary spending, thereby avoiding the need for $2 billion in cuts elsewhere. C’est-la-paygo.

HOPE AND CHANGE 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dora says:

June 11th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

I see OT is pushing the latest bit of rw boobery that white supremicist von Brunn is actually a “leftist”.

Remember that report that warned against increasing violence from the right wing extremist groups like white supremicists? Doesn’t look so far fetched now.

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

by the way, I think it is supremacist. for someone with a superiority complex, I expect more. Later tonight, I will post why Brunn is a lefty, gotta go now.

adlib says:

June 11th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

“The anti-semitism of von Brunn is the first thing one notices when visiting these bizarre websites. However, like those of most “white supremacists”, many of von Brunn’s political views track “Left” rather than “Right.” Clearly, a re-evaluation of these obsolete definitions is long overdue.”

Interesting change of topic O.T. into a subject rarely discussed. Neo-cons are not the exclusively Jewish. Jeanne Kirkaptrick was no more a Jew than Sammy Davis Jr. is a neo-conservative, but you’re right that the Stalinsist left was not without anti-Semitism.

Neo-conservatism was a movement that began in the HUAC days out of roots in Trotskyite trade-unionism and founded by such as Wm. Kristol and Norman Podhoretz. Using the US as base for an worldwide pushback against Stalinism it has become what’s now the religion of anti-communism. Neo-cons generally despise Christian Fundamentalists and jingoist conservatives as mere tools.

Mensa member Brunn’s reported MENSA intelligence along with paranoid schizophrenic indicate he was nobody’s tool per se, but his senseless murder of the guard at the museum is a far cry from the targeted hit on the neo-con icon himself Leon Trotsky. It does however smack of politics in the same vain.

And p.s. I’m no more anti-Semitic than you’re anti-semantic.

Dora says:

June 11th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

“I will post why Brunn is a lefty, gotta go now. ”

Who you gonna cut n paste from? Limbaugh or Malkin? Or perhaps Glenn Beck or Redstate? Doesn’t really matter. The same tripe is all over the rw websites you frequent.

And who’s the 3:38 cut n paste from?

You still don’t have anything original to contribute.

6th district Jim says:

June 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

the beatnik:
We need a Truman style committee to look into it, then actual savings can be achieved and deficets made to go away

Jim joins the general good humor of this thread:
Beat wants a truman commission, Dorka opines for her truth commission.
Alas, the large Dem majorities just dont seem willing to cooperate……
Darn, shucks, golly, all heck.
Why o why would that be?
No truth? no deficit reduction?
Hmmmmmmm. It is a puzzler, at least for Obama’s Special Olympics cadre.

And OT—
the “pay as you go bit” has convinced me beyond any reasonable doubt that
Obama and Biden are really the reincarnation of the movie
Dumb and dumber team.
Say what you will, O’Biden are funnier than even W’s malaprops………

CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER says:

June 11th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

“Ha-ha, CS, given that you “responded” in less than an hour,”

Only an anal little egomaniac could come up with that.

“I guess we can include you in the “navel gazing thumb sucking” blog contingent, whatever that means”

If you ever grow up and figure out what it means, you’ll realize how wrong you are.

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

So far, this is what we know about James von Brunn:

Registered Democrat-just like parthian
Christian hater-just like parthian
J*w Hater-just like parthian
O’Reilly hater-just like parthian
Weekly Standard hater
Bush hater-just like parthian
Neo-con hater-just like parthian
9-11 was an inside job-just like parthian
Socia*ist-just like parthian
artist
Stated that “SOCIA*ISM, represents the future of the West”

Sorry Duh-ora, he was no right winger. I could give a flock what you think. But kiss my arse if you think I am going to let you put your lefty lies on here without being called out on them.

Jay says:

June 11th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

parthian: “It’s all quite explicable.”

Absolutely right. But then I never claimed it to be somehow inexplicable….just that your reasoning doesn’t hold up to a simple sniff test. Its very easily explicable.

“Whatever you’re trying to say, I find it incoherent.”

I’m doubtful. You seem much more intelligent than that. You tend to find “inhoherent” that which you disagree with and cannot disproove, which is fine. Any interested reader with an ounce of brains can understand what I posted (including you).

Dora says:

June 11th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

you are completely full of sh*t OT.

This is what we know about him from the NY Times, AP, CBS News, NY Daily News, Philly.com, CNN, Times Online, USA Today and his own website (HolyWesternEmpire.org):

1. He hates the US government.
2. He hates liberals.
3. He said President Obama was “created by Jews.”
4. He believes Obama wasn’t born in the United States.
5. He holds conspiratorial views about the federal reserve.
6. He feared the takeover of the country by “black governors.”
7. He was active in the white separatist movement.
8. He is a known anti-Semite.
9. He is a known associate of William Pierce, author of The Turner Diaries.
10. He is a known associate of Stan Hess, formerly of David Duke’s European rights organization.
11. His birther screed was posted at rw website Free Republic and he defended Bush against Dan Rather and claimed the media tried to destroy Sarah Palin in posts on the site.
12. He idolized John G. Crommelin, a McCarthyite and segregationist who ran for Governor of Alabama for the ultra right-wing National States’ Rights Party.
13. He calls himself a “White Christian.”
14. On his website he wrote that the people who shaped his character were:
Gen. Pedro del Valle, a Republican and Willis Carto, a right wing holocaust denier who founded Noontide press where he worked and he said “publishes right wing books” and Liberty Lobby which invited people like Phyllis Schafly to speak. He also said on his website: “Right wing websites illuminate the problems that Aryans face. Each day new alarms are sounded, adding more fuel to the raging fire…the RW does NOTHING but talk…No plan of action against the well known enemy…Exactly the advice Marxists/liberals/Jews want to hear. … Even a kid in Grade School knows when it’s time to get his knuckles bloody.”

Only an abject moron would claim he’s a “lefty”. You and Limbaugh are in great company.

Dora says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Some lunatic rw radio mouthpiece posts on his blog that “it appears” that he’s a “registered Democrat from Maryland” but provides nothing to back up that claim. In fact in the comments section of his blog it apparently started in the comments section of Free Republic where it said “needs confirmation”.

Just like the completely false story about ballots in the trunk of the car that lives on this bs will make the rounds of the infamous garbage troughs and will be repeated as fact by the likes of OT, the -bot and the other rw nutballs.

O.T. says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

sounds like he pretty much hates evryone and everything to me. doesn’t sound like he is a rw to me as you yourself post that he thinks the rw does nothing but talk, therefore, he is not a participant with them.

remind me again, which party has the most recent kkk members in it?

his defense of bush may have just been like most real vets who didn’t care for rather using forgeries against him. most sane and rational people would do that, but not you I am sure.

so, once again , you fail to convince anyone, and let me be like you and say “nice sources- cnn, ny slimes, usa today, ap, cbs…..bwahahahahahahafukyou.

Dora says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

And what are your sources OT? You think your rw blogs and Rush Limbaugh are better sources than news organizations?

“recent KKK members”? Who would that be?

David Duke is a recent member of the GOP. He won the LA House seat as a Republican. And ran in several elections including the US Senate in 1990 and the Presidential race in 1992 as a Republican.

Dora says:

June 12th, 2009 at 7:40 am

From CNN.com:

“The traffic [on online hate discussion groups] has really been high, and there are more people who feel their voice isn’t being represented,” said Randy Blazak, associate professor at Portland State University in Oregon and director of the Hate Crime Research Network.

“I’ve heard white people say whites are being fired from their jobs because they’re white, and that there’s going to be a new left-wing regime that will restrict people’s rights,” Blazak said.”

And where do they get such garbage? Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck. No wonder they are trying to distance themselves from the nutjobs like von Brunn who are acting out the paranoia that they are spouting. It’s not comforting to know that someone in local law enforcement swallows the swill.

O.T. says:

June 12th, 2009 at 7:41 am

for the 50,000th time, I do not listen to limbaugh, usually working or sleeping during his time period. if you would like to consider drudge as shady, that is pushing it. he doesn’t write stories generally, they are all links to newspapers and news services. every agency you quotes are left wing hack obama lovers, may as well throw in msnbc while you are at it.

I really do not watch one blog, i even look at your huff post, kos, and others to see what the demented, paint-sniffing elitists are thinking.

very convenient of you to “forget” the current member who was/is kkk, but i expect that out of you.

O.T. says:

June 12th, 2009 at 7:44 am

hope and change, hope and change

President Barack Obama says he has lost confidence in the inspector general who investigates AmeriCorps and other national service programs and has told Congress he is removing him from the position.

Obama’s move follows an investigation by IG Gerald Walpin of Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson, who is an Obama supporter and former NBA basketball star, into the misuse of federal grants by a nonprofit education group that Johnson headed…

The president didn’t offer any more explanation, but White House Counsel Gregory Craig, in a letter to Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, cited the U.S. attorney’s criticism of Walpin to an integrity committee for inspectors general.

“We are aware of the circumstances leading to that referral and of Mr. Walpin’s conduct throughout his tenure and can assure you that the president’s decision was carefully considered,” Craig wrote.

Grassley had written Obama a letter pointing to a law requiring that Congress be given the reasons an IG is fired. He cited a Senate report saying the requirement is designed to ensure that inspectors general are not removed for political reasons.

Grassley said Walpin had identified millions of dollars in AmeriCorps funds that were wasted or misspent and “it appears he has been doing a good job.”

The IG found that Johnson, a former all-star point guard for the Phoenix Suns, had used AmeriCorps grants to pay volunteers to engage in school-board political activities, run personal errands for Johnson and even wash his car.

O.T. says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:03 am

cnn again, hahahahahahaha

way to cherry pick that story, duh-ora, why didn’t you include the section where they interview the fbi agent in charge and he states on the record that there HAS BEEN NO increase at all in extremist hate groups you are speaking of? we know the answer, so no need to respond with your reasoning. quite possibly cnn cut that out too so they can appease their demented viewers.

did you know von brunn also had fox news on his “hit list” he was carrying at the time. you probably did but “neglected” to mention that too. funny how you and your media choices didn’t cover the muslim convert’s hit list the way they are covering this – why, do you think?

lastly, before I leave for the day, i find it comical that your “experts” are vindicating the dhs report, but totally leaving out that they were speaking of returning vets, when von brunn hasnt had service for over 65 years and i do not think has even been confirmed that he did – he claims to have been a vet.

Dora says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:05 am

The current member of the Democratic Party in Congress was involved with the KKK 6 decades ago (!) and renounced them and apologized for being associated with them before he was even elected and since.

Unlike David Duke.

Very Lame OT.

You are a liar about not reading blogs. You’ve cut n pasted from them. Of course you think that all the news agencies, save Fox, are Obama lovers. And whether you listen to Limbaugh or not is immaterial. His crap is picked up and spewed all over the rw, including Drudge.

Feeding the Lone Wolves

“In April, a prescient Department of Homeland Security memo predicted that the election of the first African American president and the advent of economic hard times could worsen the threat from “right-wing extremist groups.” …

For days, some conservative commentators tried mightily to paint the memo as an underhanded attempt by the Obama administration to smear its honorable critics by equating “right-wing” with “terrorism.” …

There’s profit for the pundits, and perhaps personal advantage for some politicians, in calling President Obama a “socia1ist” and calling Judge Sonia Sotomayor a “racist Latina” and claiming that Democrats want to “take away your guns” — in creating and nurturing a sense of grievance among those inclined to be aggrieved. But what about those who might not understand that it’s all just political theater?

The Homeland Security memo made the assessment that “lone wolves and small terrorist cells embracing violent right-wing extremist ideology are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States.” It recalled an April 4 incident in which three Pittsburgh area police officers were killed, and said “the alleged gunman’s reaction reportedly was influenced by his racist ideology and belief in anti-government conspiracy theories related to gun confiscations, citizen detention camps, and a Jewish-controlled ‘one world government.’ ” It’s clear that James von Brunn was a firm believer in this whole insane scenario long before the financial meltdown or Obama’s election. …

What we don’t know is whether all the blast-furnace rhetoric coming from the right is giving validation and encouragement to some confused, angry man or woman with a rifle or a truck full of fertilizer — the next “lone wolf,” preparing to howl.

O.T. says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:18 am

where did I say i don’t read any blogs? try again: “I really do not watch one blog, i even look at your huff post, kos, and others to see what the demented, paint-sniffing elitists are thinking.” As ususal, your comprehension is as sharp as your intelligence.

Now, cut/paste us the quote from the agent-in-charge. you know you read it.

so, now you have cherrypicked two stories with your post above- good job, those pails of cherries will be full with you working.

gotta go, some of us lead lives and interact with real people, face to face, unlike duh-ora.

Dora says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:21 am

You’re an @ss OT.

The FBI stats are from 2007. And the other stats from 2008. The story is all about how in 2009 all the chatter has increased and in a few weeks we’ve seen several instances of violence by the rw extremists groups that report was talking about.

And what the report said about vets was that they might be vulnerable to being recruited by the groups.

It wasn’t Fox News that he had written on a piece of paper it was the National Review. And, according to the investigators, they weren’t mentioned in his screed against the Jews and Obama that was found in his car.

And as was pointed out, there were plenty of stories about the muslim convert. In fact, O’Reilly had to apologize to CNN for lying that they didn’t cover the story.

You really are bereft of any kind of intellectual honesty.

Dora says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:26 am

I read nothing in the story from the “agent in charge”.

Here’s the link. Hate groups riled up, researchers say Find me a quote from the “agent in charge”.

Oh I see, you’re admitting you read blogs but not just one blog. I never said you just read one blog.

parthian says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:34 am

OT, it looks like your level of irrational anger and rage is increasing, just as it is among many right wing extremists after Obama’s election. The recent DHS report (denonunced by the Right Wing Noise Machine) was quite accurate, wouldn’t you say, as a lawman?

I guess you’d goofily answer “no”, given your dogbrained idea that von Brunn is a liberal Dem or “leftist”. He’d shoot you in the face if you said that to him!

The conservative movement is looking a little defensive these days as right wing extremists/domestic terrorists shoot and kill someone new every week. Now we have white supremacists presented by conservatives as “lib’ruls” and “leftists”—utterly irrational, but comic.

The conservative movement has made the mistake of believing its own absurd propaganda, thus dimwits like OT are convinced that Nazism is “really” a left wing movement, that KKK sympathizers are “really” lib’ruls and that white supremacists are “really” lefties.

It’s easy to see how this happens, as Rightists like OT don’t know a shred of history or political thought. Adlib’s post on the history of neocon thought might as well be in greek for them.

von Brunn appears to be mostly an anti-semite, that was one of the great prejudices of his age group, although it’s a much reduced phenomenon now. He hated jews and thus he would be naturally opposed to any support for the jewish state. Neocon thought advocates especially strong support for Israel, hence von Brunn’s hatred of neocons, and Bushco, which strongly supported Israel.

von Brunn would have enthusiastically supported Hitler, OT, if that give you any clues in your police work. You need some clues because based on your posts on this matter, you’re certainly no Columbo. You’re not even an Inspector Lestrade!

להקיא says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:42 am

3. He said President Obama was “created by Jews.”

He was.

The main ingredients are matzo meal and (two) fresh eggs.

The rest is secret.

parthian says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:52 am

informed = “elitist”

This has been another online edition of “The OT Dictionary”.

Jay says:

June 12th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

parth: “hence von Brunn’s hatred of neocons, and Bushco, which strongly supported Israel.”

he’s right about this, OT. The whole “enemy of my enemy is my freind” mentality of today distorts the reality of many situations. Ultimately, the guy is a psycho, and clearly off the map as far as which “group” he may belong. Why the eagerness of either side to assign him to the other? He’s an irrelavant in the grand scheme of things.

להקיא says:

June 12th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

“Why the eagerness of either side to assign him to the other?”

The true believers will do anything to to convince themselves that their side is the righteous side.

O.T. says:

June 12th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

exactly, Jay, that was my point in countering their assignment of him to right wing. the guy is a nut, so was the tiller killer. the only one who may prove to be sane was the muslim convert.

I can’t say much since I am probably being tracked by the DHS now too. After all, combat vet, disillusioned by the present administration, etc, I fit a few of their rationale points. After all, we are the dangerous ones, not the muslims. Exactly how many returning vets have conducted terrorism against the country now? 0, and Muslims, how many? yep, I see their point.

Well, have fun, I am going up to the compound… I mean cabin for weekend and wil be leaving all electronics, sans cellphone here.

adlib says:

June 12th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

“It’s easy to see how this happens, as Rightists like OT don’t know a shred of history or political thought. Adlib’s post on the history of neocon thought might as well be in greek for them.”

Well let me be the first to correct my own mistake. Wm Kristol is a second generation neo-con. His father Irving Kristol, along with Norman Podhoretz, are founding fathers in the movement. Their sons William Kristol and John Podhoretz are second generation neo-conservative intellectuals and opinionmakers.

Commentator David Brookes,of the WSJ, PBS Newshour and NPR, for that matter is a neo-conservative opinion maker. I like David’s soothing and moderate comments, but listen for what excites him if you wish to detect any kind of agenda in his talk. It always seems aimed at debunking and deflating any kind of groundswell of opinion that could seriously challenge the status quo as recieved by Obama from GWB.

adlib says:

June 12th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

“the guy is a nut, so was the tiller killer. the only one who may prove to be sane was the muslim convert.”

… “the only one likely to be executed was the muslim convert.”

There, fixed it.

Dora says:

June 12th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

“…countering their assignment of him to right wing.”

BS. He is a fringe right wing extremist. There is a difference. The right tied themselves to those groups by their false outrage over the Homeland Security report. Eugene Robinson is correct. The right is dialing up the outrage that feeds these extremists paranoia. Then when they act on it, the right is running away from their responsibility for inciting it.

Jay says:

June 15th, 2009 at 7:13 am

“…their responsibility for inciting it”

???????????

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