Ambassadors R Us

July 22nd, 2009 – 12:29 PM by Kevin Diaz

It’s not every day that two Minnesotans sit side by side before a U.S. Senate panel as potential American ambassadors. But that was the scene Wednesday in a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing room, where DFL attorney Sam Kaplan and St. John’s theologian Miguel Diaz appeared as nominees for ambassadorships to Morocco and the Holy See, respectively.

The formalities were provided by Minnesota Sens. Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken, Democrats who read laudatory opening statements.  Then came friendly questioning from Pennsylvania Democrat Robert Casey, who did all he could to lend the impression of a smooth ride to confirmation later this month.

Kaplan spoke briefly about Morocco’s role as a mediator in the Mideast peace process. Diaz made a few remarks about President Obama’s recent meeting with Pope Benedict XVI. Significantly, the word abortion was never mentioned.

The startling two-fer ended amid handshakes and family photographs. But Casey warned the denizens of Lake Wobegon not to get used to it: “Minnesota’s not always going to get  two.”

275 Responses to "Ambassadors R Us"

Deacon Blues says:

July 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…….

Cash N. Carey says:

July 22nd, 2009 at 6:39 pm

I wonder why there aren’t multiple topics on Congressman Keith Ellison’s hajj to Mecca? If a certain conservative Christian congresswoman sneezes, the libs at the Star use her as a topic. Could it be their bigotry against Christians?

Didn’t Ellison first claim that he paid for the trip himself? Then the Star reported the Muslim American Society (MAS) paid for Ellison’s trip.

“Keith Ellison is a member of Congress who knows that congressmen don’t take trips sponsored by nonprofits. That would be a breach of congressional ethics,” said Bray, executive director of the MAS Freedom Foundation.

Hmmm, a breach of congressional ethics? You would think that would be headline news. Wouldn’t you?

adlib says:

July 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pm

CNC. Why aren’t two Minnesotans getting appointed to these ambassadorships considered good news to you? I take it you’re not Catholic and that your travel itinerary does not include Morocco?

dare2sayit.com says:

July 22nd, 2009 at 9:22 pm

I can’t believe how the state run liberal NBC Nightly news and the programming after that went out of their way way to promote Obama’s soci@list vision for our health care system. KARE11 news even did their part to endorse Ob@maCare which really disappointed me. They won’t tell you however about the many examples like the woman in Canada who was having vision problems and headaches who was put on a five month waiting list to see a speci@list. Her life was saved only because she had a hunch something couldn’t wait and came to the United States to find out she had rapidly enlarging growth next to one of her eyes that needed to be removed ASAP. She would have died under soci@list Ob@maCare sytle treatment.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 22nd, 2009 at 9:26 pm

Cash,

Thanks for pointing out even more problems with Keith Hakim Ellison (DFL-MN). How can the libs in the 5th. district complain about Michele Bachmann after seeing the radical lunatic they put in office?

GO lonoscopy says:

July 22nd, 2009 at 10:12 pm

D2,
Your not the only to see that political ad. Its a political ad. It should be viewed with adult supervision or tunnelvision or x-ray vision or something, eh.

I’d like to know this-

If the Canadians don’t have american style health insurance, who foots the bill when they come here for services? Eh?

Do they pay for it themselves? Eh?

Is it the richest 1% of canadians that come here and pay out of pocket for procedures and then complain about their system or are we hearing it from the general population? Eh?

Does that lady pay a higher premium in canada to compensate for her obesity? Eh?

Why would we take the word of a hoser regarding our healthcare initiative when anyother opinion from north of the border is ignored? Eh?

Why don’t we see ads from Bob and Doug McKenzie? Eh?

Deacon Blues says:

July 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 pm

Take of you hoser!

My wifes family isnt in the top 1% of people in Canada and they have their complaints. My wife’s aunt waited 9 months for an MRI on her bad knee.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:27 am

Deacon Hoser Importer,
9 months is a long time but it isn’t brain surgery.

Do you know who pays for a canadians medical procedure if they opt to come to the US and have it done?

Also, Why are we employing canadians to do these ads when there are alot of minnesotahns out of work?

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:36 am

Listen When I watch MSNBC or read some blogs I here all the time about “Republican Scare Tactics”

Well why is it now I hear Obama say this “If we don’t act now this frightening is going to happen”

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:36 am

A friend of mine was refused referral to a specia1ist for 18 months. By the time she was finally referred her cancer metastasized. She died 2 years after that. In the US.

Any of you who think that “rationing” isn’t happening now or delayed treatment doesn’t happen now are out of your minds.

It’s more fear mongering by Republicans.

And what a hoot that Kristol is up in arms about how “government” will make treatment decisions. That’s exactly what insurers do now. That’s why it’s called “managed care”. That’s what utilization review is all about.

And Obama talking about making treatment decisions based on best practices is exactly what the Mayo physicians from that oped were talking about.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:39 am

The difference tiny brain is that Obama doesn’t say that if we don’t reform health care now we’re all gonna DIE.

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:00 am

Gawd, more comments from the Stupid Patrol: rationing, fear-mongering, hoot, managed care………
And Delayed treatment is NOT the same as the very sad issue of delayed or missed diagnoses. Totally different issues.
C’mon, at least have a shred on honesty!

There is no delayed treatment here, unlike people in Canada who DO wait 6 months for a new joint or back surgery because of true rationing, etc…..

Fortunately, Dora, as deacon pointed out on the last blog–these decisions have plenty of Dems votes should THEY choose to back it.

Fear and hooting aside,
People also debate the enormous and likely understated costs, or where all the extra doctors will be found to see the newly found inusured, etc, etc.
Oh well, it is in the Dems’ court……

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:02 am

of course we’re all going to die……for some, just not soon enough.

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:10 am

Can anyone tell me if a government sponsored plan will include incentives for those who do not use tobacco, are not overweight, etc? Or include penalties for those who opt for unhealthy choices? If so, are we going to run into a debate about prejudice against those folks? And if not, aren’t a disproportionately high % of the high risk citizens going to flock to this program and ditch their more expensive providers?

Essentially that should help reduce the price of private premiums greatly and offset it with higher expenses covered by taxes paid by “the wealthy,” yes? Or will a government plan provide similar incentives/penalties for good health practices as many private providers do, in the hope of actually bettering the health of the nation and truely bringimng unnecessary costs down?

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:36 am

“The difference tiny brain is that Obama doesn’t say that if we don’t reform health care now we’re all gonna DIE.”

Really whats wrong with Dora?

Your a mindless pawn.

DIE or have a depression or put a million people out of work.

Same damn thing ! Scare Tactics.

Really be honest. Whats wrong with you?

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:41 am

“It’s more fear mongering by Republicans.”

Whats “Poor Jane went in with a hang nail and because there is no government healtcare she die”

Dora YOU HAVE THE VOTES…PASS IT.

Republicans can DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!

So if you want to blame somebody blame your own party.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:47 am

Democrats are preventing Republican House Members from sending their constituents a mailing that is critical of the majority’s health care reform plan, blocking the mailing by alleging that it is inaccurate.

Isn’t this nice Dora. Fair in your mind I’m sure.

But Oh Boy if the other side did this…You’d blow a cork!

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:49 am

“AP: In trying to rally support for health care overhaul, Obama described a patient who sees a physician for a sore throat, or a parent who brings in a child with a sore throat.

“Right now, doctors a lot of times are forced to make decisions based on the fee payment schedule that’s out there. … The doctor may look at the reimbursement system and say to himself, ‘You know what? I make a lot more money if I take this kid’s tonsils out,’” Obama told a prime-time news conference.”

I wouldn’t let Dr. Obama near my damn kid.

Can you imagine if Bush said such a thing?

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:03 am

I think there should be an option to remove all unnecessary components of your body and classify it as preventative care. i could make one appointment, get put under, and they could remove my wisdom teeth, tonsils, appendix, spleen, etc…..all the stuff that eventually seems to go bad or rupture and cause emergency procedures at a higher price.

This would be a fantastic savings option to me as well as for my country.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:10 am

“I think there should be an option to remove all unnecessary components of your body”

I’m not user my [ ... ] much these days other then to piss.

Will they make me ………

להקיא says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:22 am

And what a hoot that Kristol is up in arms about how “government” will make treatment decisions. That’s exactly what insurers do now. That’s why it’s called “managed care”. That’s what utilization review is all about.

I brought this up a few days ago. Do you think you’d have an easier time dealing with the government decision maker then you would with the one at the insurance company?

In the past two years, since getting sick, I have had the insurance company make two decisions that were different from what the doctor was recommending.
Both were refusals to cover a certain medication, until either a) A different med was tried first, or b) The doctor provided a reason he was prescribing the uncovered medication. In both cases the inurance company left an avenue open for ensuring that the doctor had the final say.

Do you know anyone who has applied for SSI disability? Standard government procedure is to deny the claim, and it’s recommended for anyone applying to hire an attorney BEFORE beginning the process. The attorney can make the difference between waiting months or waiting years to receive your first payment. Hopefully, unlike some people I know, you won’t need to worry about mortgage payments and car repairs while you wait.

I guarantee you that if you were to suffer one chronic illness that prevents you from working, you would find Kristol’s concerns less of a “hoot”.

להקיא says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:32 am

I’m not user my [ … ] much these days other then to piss.

Ass?

I’ve always pictured you as a sitter-downer

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:37 am

“Do you know who pays for a canadians medical procedure if they opt to come to the US and have it done?”

They pay. The important thing in all this is to understand that a single payer system will result in doctor shortages and longer waits. At least thats the downside of the Canadian system.

Try not to slip on the ice in Canada and wrench your knee. It could be a while before you can have an MRI and get it scoped.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:42 am

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/fraser-report.html

“The average wait time for a Canadian awaiting surgery or other medical treatment is now 18.3 weeks, a new high, according to a report released Monday.

That’s an increase of 97 per cent over 14 years, the report says.”

- CBC News 10/15/2007.

An old report sure, but do we think the waits have gotten longer or shorter?

SgtPendleton says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 am

Try not to slip on the ice in Canada and wrench your knee. It could be a while before you can have an MRI and get it scoped.

Versus here in the US, where you’d wait even longer (i.e. never), to get one if you didn’t have insurance.

I sprained my wrist badly 15 years ago when I didn’t have insurance — I was living up north making about $5/hour. I waited about 5 weeks to get it treated — that’s how long it took for me to scrape up enough money to have an x-ray.

I still have trouble with it today. It’s not debilitating or anything, but just kind of a pain in the @ss. I’d love to have an MRI or have it scoped, DB — but no insurance will cover it because it’s a pre-existing condition that happened when I didn’t have coverage.

SgtPendleton says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am

Interesting link, DB.

Can you also show me where Obama is saying we adopt a Canadian-style healthcare system?

GO lonoscopy says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 am

“Can you also show me where Obama is saying we adopt a Canadian-style healthcare system?”

Exactly. Or a European system. Our GDP is so much larger than theirs. We have their pros and cons to work around. Its not like we’re going into thing this blind.

The No. 1 biggest, whole bunchyest, mucho, hugest problum I have with it is the rush to write and pass it by august, in which case you know not one of the morons in washington will read the thing before voting and it will be larded down with BS spending.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:42 am

New GOP fear mongering TV ad:

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.
I don’t know why she swallowed the fly,
IN CANADA A 9 MONTH WAIT
I guess she’ll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don’t know why she swallowed the fly.
IN CANADA A 9 MONTH WAIT
I guess she’ll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a bird.
How absurd to swallow a bird.
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don’t know why she swallowed the fly.
IN CANADA A 9 MONTH WAIT
I guess she’ll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a cat.
Imagine that, she swallowed a cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird.
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don’t know why she swallowed the fly.
IN CANADA A 9 MONTH WAIT
I guess she’ll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a dog.
My what a hog, to swallow a dog.
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat.
She swallowed the cat, to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don’t know why she swallowed the fly.
IN CANADA A 9 MONTH WAIT
I guess she’ll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a cow.
I don’t know how she swallowed a cow.
She swallowed the cow to catch the dog.
She swallowed the dog, to catch the cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird.
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don’t know why she swallowed the fly
IN CANADA A 9 MONTH WAIT
I guess she’ll die.

I know an old lady who swallowed a horse…

IN CANADA A 9 MONTH WAIT
She’s dead of course!

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 am

“Can you also show me where Obama is saying we adopt a Canadian-style healthcare system?”

Thats not what Im trying to say. Im responding to this question:

“Do you know who pays for a canadians medical procedure if they opt to come to the US and have it done?”

And to GO’s question from 10:12.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am

“Versus here in the US, where you’d wait even longer (i.e. never), to get one if you didn’t have insurance.”

Pros and Cons Sgt. thats all Im saying. If Obama can find a way to pay for it Im happy to see reform. If he cant pay for it, not so much.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:50 am

“I’d love to have an MRI or have it scoped, DB — but no insurance will cover it because it’s a pre-existing condition that happened when I didn’t have coverage.”

If you bought your policy privately thats true Im sure. Whats the law about employer provided insurance? Can they keep you off their plan for a pre existing condition?

GO lonoscopy says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:50 am

OK then, Lets be serious about this for a…..moment…………………no…..sorry….thats above my pay scale. I’ll need to retract that.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 am

“I brought this up a few days ago. Do you think you’d have an easier time dealing with the government decision maker then you would with the one at the insurance company?”

Likely not. However, the point Kristol is pushing is that the government run decision maker would be worse than the insurance company. He is implying that the insurance company is not already making those decisions.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 am

“DIE or have a depression or put a million people out of work.

Same damn thing ! Scare Tactics.”

that’s right tiny brain and it’s the Republicans saying all those things.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 am

“There is no delayed treatment here”

More of your knowledge from the front lines, DimJim?

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 11:41 am

“that’s right tiny brain and it’s the Republicans saying all those things”

What types of scare tactics do you think the Dems are using politically in order to push this through?

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 pm

Is it a scare tactic to say that the current health care system is bankrupting families and dragging down our economy?

I don’t think so.

It’s a scare tactic to say that grandma will die, the government will dictate your treatment, and it will lead to massive unemployment.

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 pm

Dora: “that’s right tiny brain and it’s the Republicans saying all those things.”

Thats what Republicans do, Dora. They try to make you afraid of something. Conversely, Democrats tell you who to blame for whatever is wrong. Republicans instill fear, Democrats assign blame. Politics 101.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:37 pm

“I don’t think so.”

So your answer is nothing then? Democrats arent trying to scare people at all?

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm

“the current health care system is bankrupting families and dragging down our economy”

This is a good example. Is that a scare tactic? No. It is true? Not really. Its assigning blame. health care costs are no doubt a portion of the problem, but to say it is the reason for bankruptcy and dragging the economy down is implying that it is the only reason, or at very least the main reason. It is neither.

Democrats are taking a real situation and assigning blame to a business item on their agenda.

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm

“the current health care system is bankrupting families and dragging down our economy”

This is a good example. Is that a scare tactic? No. It is true? Not really. Its assigning blame. health care costs are no doubt a portion of the problem, but to say it is the reason for bankruptcy and dragging the economy down is implying that it is the only reason, or at very least the main reason. It is neither.

Democrats are taking a real situation and assigning blame to suit a business item on their agenda.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm

Dora,

Would you agree that with Obama in the WH, a mandate from the people to do something, a filibuster proof senate and the votes in the house, the Dems could pass this tomorrow if they wanted to?

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:42 pm

Even if the Republicans are using scare tactics, which is irrelevant because they have no power, so what? Its the Dems that are in control. Do you think the Dems are scared of the Republicans horror stories?

Whats scarier, Republican stories of gloom and doom? Or not passing the bill after you’ve spent all your political capital on it during a recession?

SgtPendleton says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 pm

They can’t because not all Dems support it 100%. Blame Harry Reid.

Oh yeah, and here’s yet another racist GOP’er sending emails to everyone (who he assumes to be as racist as he is)

http://tinyurl.com/l9qau5

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 pm

“They can’t because not all Dems support it 100%. Blame Harry Reid.”

Oh thats right. I forget sometimes. You’ll excuse me for that considering that Im bombarded by Democrats bitching daily about republican obstruction. Who’s playing politics? They both are. The Dems point to the GOP to skirt blame and the GOP preaches to their base.

Who’s in charge is the pertenant detail here and it isnt the GOP.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pm

“the Dems could pass this tomorrow if they wanted to? ”

Yes they could if all the Democrats would vote for it. And as parthian has explained it’s mainly the blue dog’s that are helping Republican’s obstruct this.

And there are plenty of Democrats that are p1ssed about it.

That’s one of the differences in “control” of Congress. The Republican’s followed along with whatever Bush wanted. Obama can’t expect that from Democrats.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 pm

“Nearly 54 percent of the Blue Dog PAC’s haul this year comes from the energy, financial services and health care industries, up from 45 percent in 2004, according to analysis of CQ MoneyLine data by the Center for Public Integrity. ”

There ya go.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:38 pm

My gawd what a hypocrite. I have no doubt they’ll do the same with the health care bill.

“Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA) has been touring his home state of Louisiana for what he calls a “Louisiana Working” tour to promote “jobs, jobs and jobs. That must be our No. 1 priority.” On the tour, Jindal is giving stump speeches decrying “Washington, D.C. and other officials” for seeking to “spend more money” during an economic downturn.

Indeed, on Monday, Jindal declared the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act to be a failure, calling it a “stimulus that has not stimulated.” In local Louisiana newspapers, Jindal touted his administration’s intent to “not run things here in Louisiana the way they do in Washington.”

As he travels to each community, Jindal has been gaining many positive headlines by sponsoring press events where he gives out jumbo-sized checks to towns and parishes.

Despite the fact that the checks contain millions of dollars of Recovery Act funds for job training programs, housing assistance programs, homelessness prevention programs, police training, criminal justice technology upgrades, and community development block grants, Jindal has been printing his own name on the checks and taking credit for the money.

For example, Jindal presented Lafayette with yet another jumbo-sized check that contained at least $2,125,584 in Recovery Act funds. Though the money came from spending policies authorized by the Recovery Act, Jindal did not appear to credit the Recovery Act at all. And although the state stands to gain nearly $8 billion in federal funding from the Recovery Act, Jindal was one of several GOP governors to try to block the measure earlier this year.”

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pm

“Nearly 54 percent of the Blue Dog PAC’s haul this year comes from the energy, financial services and health care industries, up from 45 percent in 2004, according to analysis of CQ MoneyLine data by the Center for Public Integrity.

Whats the total? Did the % increase because they chipped in more? or did it increase because others chipped in less?

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:43 pm

“Obama can’t expect that from Democrats.”

You say that as though its a bad thing……after years of complaining to the contrary.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:45 pm

“Obama can’t expect that from Democrats.”

Lets hear some more b:tching from the progressives about this once in a while. I dont expect you to strain yourself but one complaint out of every ten for the GOP would be a start.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm

“And there are plenty of Democrats that are p1ssed about it.”

If this wasnt such an important issue to solve, this would be too funny.

You wait and wait and wait to get into power, then you self destruct. Good luck with the time you have left.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 pm

I say that as a factual thing.

SgtPendleton says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:07 pm

Who’s in charge is the pertenant detail here and it isnt the GOP.

It’s not for lack of trying, DB — if anyone in the GOP gave 2 sh1ts about passing some kind of reform, they’d have something worked out in a month.

See, the Dems still have that old fashioned belief that they should vote their conscious instead of what their party leader tells them to. Versus the Party First! mentality of the GOP. Still, it’s up to the majority leader to get everyone in line, and clearly that’s not happening.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:10 pm

“I say that as a factual thing”

I know. Thats why its funny. Democrats are good at pointing out the GOPs flaws and bad at getting things that need to get done, done.

Tragic comedy, Shakespearian in nature.

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm

“clearly that’s not happening”

have you ever paused to consider the possibility that it may be for good reason?

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:17 pm

Blue Dogs have been the only positive presence that the public has had in DC for several years now. The next few years will likely be similar. The main difference will be that the radical left will be even more pissed about it than they have been before.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:21 pm

“See, the Dems still have that old fashioned belief that they should vote their conscious instead of what their party leader tells them to. Versus the Party First! mentality of the GOP. Still, it’s up to the majority leader to get everyone in line, and clearly that’s not happening.”

What Im hearing is that you wish Reid was able to get the Dems to act more like the GOP. The other thing Im wondering is do you consider the Blue Dogs looking out for their corporate interests following their conscience?

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:26 pm

Careful DB…..you are trying to combine two posts from two different people: Sarge’s ideology with Dora’s cynacism.

monty says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 pm

Jay writes:
“Thats what Republicans do, Dora. They try to make you afraid of something. Conversely, Democrats tell you who to blame for whatever is wrong. Republicans instill fear, Democrats assign blame. Politics 101.”

Finally. Someone who uses the “insert topic here” 101 analogy who actually knows what they’re talking about.

Deacon Blues says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 pm

“Careful DB…..you are trying to combine two posts from two different people: Sarge’s ideology with Dora’s cynacism.”

I realize its two different people, Its my way of asking Sgt if he agrees with Dora’s insinuation that the Blue Dogs are corrupted by corporate money or if he thinks they have a conscience.

SgtPendleton says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 3:20 pm

Let’s not pidgeonhole, gentlemen.

It’s a complicated issue – not just a matter of whose fault it is that it’s not passing, or whether it shows the Democrats can’t get anything done.

First, one point I was trying to make is that you rarely, if ever see any dissent in the GOP. If someone steps out of line by, oh I’ll just make something up…saying something bad about Rush Limbaugh, he’s corrected and put back in place. Repeated offenses get you kicked out. You have to go back over 100 years to see the Dems with that kind of discipline.

Ever wonder why there’s no equivalent to Blue Dog Dems on the Repubican side? It’s because they’d be kicked out of the GOP before they knew what hit ‘em.

Since dissent is permitted in the Democratic party, it means someone like Harry Reid has an actual job to do as majority leader — building consensus and getting all the votes lined up. He sucks at it.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 3:41 pm

THE HIGH COST OF MEDICAL LAWSUIT ABUSE

http://www.protectpatientsnow.org/site/c.8oIDJLNnHlE/b.1549475/k.CFF/The_High_Cost_of_Medical_Lawsuit_Abuse.htm

ObamaCare Plan to Cover 12 Million Illegals:

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/health_care_obama/2009/07/19/237484.html

The libs refuse to do anything to stop lawsuit abuse, and they refuse to make sure illegal aliens won’t be able to cash in on free healthcare for them at taxpayers expense.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm

news max is simply not a credible source. Illegal immigrants will not be covered. And lawsuit “abuse” is not the principal driver of high health care costs.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm

http://insurance-reform.org/TrueRiskF.pdf

“If Congress completely eliminated every single medical malpractice lawsuit…overall health care costs would hardly change, but the costs of medical error and hospital induced injury would remain and someone else would have to pay.”

major findings:

• Medical malpractice premiums, inflation-adjusted, are nearly the lowest they have been in over 30 years.

• Medical malpractice claims, inflation-adjusted, are dropping significantly, down 45 percent since 2000.

• Medical malpractice premiums are less than one-half of one percent of the country’s overall health care costs; medical malpractice claims are a mere one-fifth of one percent of health care costs. In over 30 years, premiums and claims have never been greater than 1% of our nation’s health care costs.

• Medical malpractice insurer profits are higher than the rest of the property casualty industry, which has been remarkably profitable over the last five years.

• The periodic premium spikes that doctors experience, as they did from 2002 until 2005, are not related to claims but to the economic cycle of insurers and to drops in investment income.

• there is no correlation between “tort reform” and insurance rates for doctors.

להקיא says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 5:32 pm

the point Kristol is pushing is that the government run decision maker would be worse than the insurance company

Based on what those people I know have experienced, and what I’ve experienced, I agree with Kristol.

Any real reform should include a clear and efficient path for patients to appeal the decisions of the payor, regardless of whether that payor is the government, or the insurance company.

My insurance company has that, not so sure the healthcare bill does.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 5:54 pm

“Illegal immigrants will not be covered.”

B.S DFL Dora! The libs fought off an attempt to make sure illegals won’t qualify for for benefits. I can look this up if you are stupid enough to deny it.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:01 pm

Dora,

When Doctors recently met with Obama to discuss insurance issues, they came right out and told him that they will be forced to perform additional and unnecessary tests just to CTA’s in case of a lawsuit if he doesn’t address the issue.

Are the Doctors lying on this or me like you want everyone to believe?

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm

“My insurance company has that, not so sure the healthcare bill does.”

Why do you think your insurance company has that? Because the federal government requires it. And yes, it’s in section 132 of the House bill. “Requiring Fair Grievance and Appeals Mechanisms”

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm

“On behalf of the Board of Trustees of the American Medical Association, I am writing to express our appreciation and support for H.R. 3200, the ‘America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009,’” says Dr. Michael Maves, the AMA’s executive vice president and CEO.

“This legislation includes a broad range of provisions that are key to effective, comprehensive health system reform. We urge members of the House Education and Labor, Energy and Commerce, and Ways and Means Committees to favorably report H.R. 3200 for consideration by the full House.”

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:24 pm

So you agree with Kristol that government decision makers will make decisions that insurance company decision makers aren’t already making?

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:25 pm

Yes, Dora runs this Trial Lawyer propaganda like some legitimate source.
Look at the members of this “group.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.
She has gone from Stupid Patrol to Laughable Patrol.
A. There is no one source for tracking all claims.
B. Many cases now even settle without the filing of a lawsuit. The trial lawyer just says–you cant defend this, why make the doctor go thru the publicity…..let’s reach a deal.
C. Her point of lessened lawsuits ignores the obvious:
Doctors are well-educated and learned long ago the BEST way to avoid lawsuits is to order 700 Billion annually! in unneeded tests—–AND they do.
“Hey, your angiogram was normal, sorry about your procedure induced leg DVT, and good luck to you. Must be acid reflux causing your chest pain.”
How often every day does that play out?

D. The trial lawyer propaganda Dora peddles always try to cite premiums rather than the plethora of needless testing. And often dangerous needless testing.

Dora, no Public Citizen sourcing?
YAWN.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:30 pm

Dora,

I was unimpressed when the handsome Janna Shortal from KARE11 news decided to use the Mayo Clinic in her story on ObamaCare and covered many issues comparing that to other beurocracies, but she forgot to add one very important detail relavent to the story:

THE MAYO CLINIC STRONLY OPPOSSES OBAMACARE!

The liberal State run media has control of KARE11 as well.

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:32 pm

And I love that Dora rips on Newsmax as a source while hawking her own unique collection of, shall we say, activists groups.
Do as I say, not as I do, right Dora, and her smokin’ Prez hero!

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:41 pm

“See, the Dems still have that old fashioned belief that they should vote their conscious instead of what their party leader tells them to. Versus the Party First! mentality of the GOP”

And it’s this disconnect from our lefties that makes me believe the BQ lives in the Twilight Zone–free of facts and history.
Yes, the Repubs are SO in lockstep–
let’s see,
pushing No Child Left Behind before losing the Senate in 5/01

And after their big 2002 and 2004 wins–
couldnt even open ANWAR for Pete’s sake,
how did that work out for Normie?

Dumped Harriet Miers

Couldnt agree on border security

Passing the Prescription Drug Bill

Abandoning SS and Medicare reform, still our biggest financial crisis

I am sure others can think of other issues the laughably inept repubs of 2003-6 bungled due to intraparty disputes.

Welcome to Power, Dems……
The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:56 pm

2Dim, Mayo clinic opposed it because it didn’t include an independent review body. Of course Fox and the rest of the rw media distorted what they said.

But the bill now includes the Independent Medicare Advisory Board. This is Mayo’s July 21 statement: “Late yesterday, Mayo Clinic became aware of the concept of development of an Independent Medicare Advisory Council. We applaud the direction of this proposal. We view favorably the concept of an independent body that can move Medicare to a “value- based payment” model. An independent Medicare advisory commission focused on defining value, measuring it, and finding ways to pay for value could have significant, positive impact on health care for the long term. While we think the proposal’s timeline of 2014 is too long to wait to see value-based reforms, we look forward to working with the administration on refining and strengthening their new proposal. This, and other, bold concepts have the potential to “bend the cost curve” in U.S. health spending without compromising health.”

Of course you won’t see that on Fox.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:59 pm

DimJim, it’s a study that says that, not me. So let’s see your data that refutes the study data.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 6:59 pm

Obama: Cambridge police
acted stupidly

Okay I am ready to support Hate Cre legislation..But

You need a “Race Card Playing” provision.

If you are play the race card and its proven untrue

YOU GO TO JAIL.

I’m just so sick of this BS

O.T. says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:03 pm

I am here only to speak for my fellow co-workers in law enforcement. If someone calls and says there are people (white, black, whatever) attempting to break into my house, you have my permission wholly to come check it out. If it was me going into my house, then I will gladly show the proper ID, shake your hand, say thank you and more than likely offer you a soda for your trouble. I will not speak of your mother or make disparaging remarks about you. Thats what normal people would do.

If I was Sgt Crowley, I would be inquiring into suing your president obama for defamation of character or at the very least, require an apology from HIM.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:04 pm

oh and btw, 2Dim, Mayo didn’t oppose the entire bill either.

“Although there are some positive provisions in the current House Tri-Committee bill – including insurance for all and payment reform demonstration projects – the proposed legislation misses the opportunity to help create higher-quality, more affordable health care for patients.”

and now:

“An independent Medicare advisory commission focused on defining value, measuring it, and finding ways to pay for value could have significant, positive impact on health care for the long term”

Did you hear that on Fox News?

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm

Well he didn’t name Sgt Crowley now did he, OT? He said it was handled stupidly. And it was. Was it about race or was it about power, or maybe a little of both. I suppose Gates should be lucky he only spent the night in jail. The older women at the fundraiser in San Diego got raided and pepper sprayed, the guy in Kasota was shot dead.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:21 pm

TPM posted this reader comment and I think it’s very astute:

“I was taken a little aback when Obama used the word “stupidly” last night to describe the actions of the Cambridge Police. Even if his statement could have been worded more carefully, I think the whole controversy brings up an issue that needs to be discussed and is very rarely discussed in a public policy sense. I am not referring to racism. I am referring to the power of the police. With good reason, we praise our police officers on a local, state, and national level. They put their lives on the line for us everyday. No one can doubt the nobility and honor of the profession. It is seldom publicly acknowledged or debated that the police wield great power in the lives of everyday citizens. A decade ago, I worked as an attorney in a fairly large Public Defender’s Office. My clients were indigent and many of them were people of color. So, I know a little about police power as well as how persons of low income and color are treated in our criminal justice system. For me, though, the issue is not about race only. It is about the power the police have to arrest someone whether or not a crime took place. Sure, mistakes will happen, and most officers will try not to make an arrest if it is unnecessary. We all know (maybe not Prof. Gates) not to anger a police officer. I had so many cases in which someone cursed at an officer or made a gesture to an officer and ended up spending the night in jail. Prof. Gates spent four hours in jail. Even though his charge was dropped, I’m sure that time in jail for a law-abiding citizen was utterly horrendous. There simply is no reason to arrest someone for hurting your feelings or making an ugly gesture at you. It is not against the law in most contexts. In addition, I can assure you that most people who walk into a court room in a case in which it is the officer’s word against him or her (a law-abiding citizen) is at a superior disadvantage. An overwhelming majority of judges simply will not believe the law-abiding citizen over the police officer. So, along with the rightful adoration we reserve for our police officers, our society needs to acknowledge that their power is awesome and must be wielded in a cautious and prudent manner. Not only can a police officer throw you in jail or hold a judge’s trust on the witness stand, he or she can use deadly force. It is an awesome power that is almost unparalleled in our society. It is important that this kind of power have a check and balance. This discussion is important. As for Obama digging in on his statement, he worded it better the second time. Cooler heads should’ve prevailed indeed.”

GO lonoscopy says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:22 pm

“Obama: Cambridge police
acted stupidly”

Apparently Black Scholars weren’t givin the standard teenager on the town speech from their fathers-

“If the police stop you for any reason keep your goddam mouth shut. Do exactly as the say. Don’t be a smart a$$. Don’t assume they know who you are.”

As dad is shoving his finger into my face to make his point.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:28 pm

“2Dim, Mayo clinic opposed it because…”

Dora, Jana Shortal should have divulged this important fact and you know it. No excuses DFL Dora!

GO lonoscopy says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:29 pm

If I were a black man,
Daidle deedle daidle
Daidle daidle deedle daidle dum
All day long I’d play the race card
If I were a black man.
I wouldn’t have to work hard,
Daidle deedle daidle
Daidle daidle deedle daidle dum
If I were a biddy-biddy black,
Daidle deedle daidle daidle man.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:32 pm

““Obama: Cambridge police
acted stupidly”

One more reason why the wrong person is sitting in the White House. Even Bill Cosby is saying that Obama is wrong .

להקיא says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:34 pm

So you agree with Kristol that government decision makers will make decisions that insurance company decision makers aren’t already making?

No, I do not. What I agree with is his belief that it could prove to be tougher for patients and providers to deal with the government.

Again this is based what I’ve seen with people applying for SSI. I, so far, have never needed a lawyer to assist me in getting a claim resolved.

It’s something I’m not confident congress would address in the original timeline Obama set out for getting the bill passed.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:49 pm

להקיא

I was in a doctors office in South Carolina last month and they had a big sign that they didn’t accept Medicaid patients. Go figure, government seems to think they can pay Doctors whatever they think is fair.

If government takes over our health care system, our best and brightest will avoid medicine and go into something else like engineering.

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:54 pm

Dora says:
DimJim, it’s a study that says that, not me. So let’s see your data that refutes the study data.

Hey, pretty good answer, Ms Dora.
The “study” data doesnt say anything, it is just a presenting of raw data that may, or may not, be complete on its numbers (ie premiums)
As usual, people put their spin on “statistics” in a way that suits there agenda. Yet, spin is not a p value, which is fine. Even trial lawyers are allowed opinions, yet as Denny Green pointed out, other people are allowed to disagree.

I wont defend the trial lawyer data, either. Raw data is always food for thought–

population is slowly growing!
but
total health costs are soaring!
lawsuits purportedly are way down this decade!
Csections have risen 600+% ,

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:56 pm

“Well he didn’t name Sgt Crowley now did he, OT? He said it was handled stupidly. ”

Yeah by this impulsive need to claim racism by every minority thanks in part to our society that seems to think everybody is out to get every minority.

Its nonsense. I’d like to see this guy get sued.

And Obama is the President not a talk radio host or cable TV guy. He should have kept his big mouth shut.

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 7:58 pm

CT’s and MR’s were almost nonexistant 20 years ago, but now cost in the tens of billions.
Trial lawyers have an opinion, and Obama’s ear
Doctor boo Obama at their meeting.

What might doctors be doing that would cause healthcosts to soar, and reduce lawsuits, if the “study” data were true?
Hmmmmmm………

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:04 pm

“Did you hear that on Fox News?”

No Dora but I heard the democrats have 60 seats in the Senate and a enough of a majority in the House to pass this bill tomorrow.

SO SHUT UP !!!!!

You can’t get this bill passed because A. The American people don’t want it and B YOUR OWN PARTY doesn’t want it.

This has ZERO to do with Fox or Rush or any of the bogymen you so love to blame.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:06 pm

“Jana Shortal should have divulged this important fact. No Excuses… ”

What are you talking about? You are wrong that “THE MAYO CLINIC STRONLY OPPOSSES OBAMACARE!” I just gave you quotes from the Mayo Clinic that shows you’re wrong.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:17 pm

And Dora if there is no mandate what the hell makes you think the people that can currently afford insurance but don’t buy it are all of a sudden going to buy into this plan.

This is nothing but silly nonsense.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:18 pm

Hey tiny, just drives you nuts that I won’t shut up, eh? heh.

A. more people still favor health care reform than oppose it.

B. The only party that doesn’t want it is the Republican Party. Democrats are arguing over parts of it, not saying they don’t want it.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:20 pm

“I just gave you quotes from the Mayo Clinic that shows you’re wrong.”

Oh who cares.

53 democrats in the House and who knows how many senators thing it stinks. So bitch about them Dora…Bitch about them.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:20 pm

So you can’t refute the data, eh DimJim.

Cash N. Carey says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:30 pm

Dora – here is your quote: Late yesterday, Mayo Clinic became aware of the concept of development of an Independent Medicare Advisory Council. We applaud the direction of this proposal. We view favorably the concept of an independent body that can move Medicare to a “value- based payment” model. An independent Medicare advisory commission focused on defining value, measuring it, and finding ways to pay for value could have significant, positive impact on health care for the long term. While we think the proposal’s timeline of 2014 is too long to wait to see value-based reforms, we look forward to working with the administration on refining and strengthening their new proposal. This, and other, bold concepts have the potential to “bend the cost curve” in U.S. health spending without compromising health.”

The Mayo clinic didn’t state they have changed their position on any bill, only that this proposal has the “potential” and that they applaud this one proposal. This is all you’ve got?

I am sure we could find one thing in the bill that I could support. It wouldn’t change my opinion of the overall bill. Having the government council determine what medical care is “valued” is absurd.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:31 pm

“However, as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) said today, the urgency to pass a health care reform bill is not great enough to rush a bill before the Senate recesses in two weeks.”

Now is that FOX news Dora…
Is that republican propaganda

Lets go back and look at your post a few days ago where you claimed this whole “Rush through” was.

Hands down lady you are the most mindless mimicker, lack of original thought poster I’ve ever come across.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

CNC, they never said they “STRONGLY OPPOSED” the bill either. In fact, they said there were positive provisions in it and named specifically “insurance for all and payment reform demonstration projects”. So they obviously supported more than just “one thing”.

O.T. says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 pm

Dora, you should read the real racist’s (Gates) interview on newamerica.net. What an idiot. I meant him but it also applies to you. He did not spend an night in jail, fyi. He syas the booking in process is a humiliation tactic for minorities. He says counting your money and valuables is a humiliation tactic. Maybe because people will claim the police stole their stuff, they inventory it, duh. “They took my belt”, yeah, idiot, becuase prisoners hang themselves, too bad they didn’t let him keep his. ( I put that in so you will have something to b*tch about).

This is purely a case of a little gupy who wants to be a big fish and now people know who he is. He can be the next Al Sharpton.

If you get a chance to see the picture taken of him being arrested, it says it all. Him , looking a like a tantrum throwing two yr old, calm policemen, and the best part was the black cop looking disgusted that this guy is of the same race as him.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:43 pm

And how is that statement by Harry Reid saying that Democrats “dont’ want” the bill?

You are quite simply intellectually dishonest, tiny brain.

You go right ahead and find the post where I claimed this whole “rush through” was (whatever the h3ll you mean by that).

O.T. says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:52 pm

you can get any result you want with a poll.

q- are you satisfied with the cost of your mortgage?
q- would you like it to be less?
q- would you like the goverment to pay your mortgage for you?
q- how about if we just tax billionaires to pay your mortgage?
q- would you be willing to pay 20% more for your mortgage so people who don’t pay their mortgages can continue to not pay for it?

There are 5 questions above. I would bet my house, that if you polled the public, you woulld get very high yes answers for the first four and single digit to absolute zero on the last one. Now replace mortgage with health care and ask the same questions to them. Voila, positive poll.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm

“And how is that statement by Harry Reid saying that Democrats “dont’ want” the bill? ”

Really what is wrong with you Dora? Who said anything about Harry Reid saying Democrats don’t want the bill.

Read the damn post. We’re talking about your partisan dribble the other day that “Rushing the bill” was all Republican propaganda. All Fox News talking points.

Harry Reid said today

“the urgency to pass a health care reform bill is not great enough to rush a bill before the Senate recesses in two weeks.””

RUSH…RUSH See the word RUSH in there.

Hey do us all a favor vent your stupid scorn on the Democrats that are preventing the passing of this bill.
Write those poor Saps emails.

This bill not passing now HAS NOTHING TO DO with Republicans, Fox News, Rush, Hannity, Me or anybody else on the Right.

It has to do with DEMOCRATS, PERIOD.

Cash N. Carey says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 8:56 pm

Here is what Gov TPaw had to say about the Obama experiment with health care:

“This whole health care proposal by president Obama is really quite a joke on a number of levels. I think he is scamming the American people. Even if you believe that it is only going to tax people over $1 million, what is known to happen is that is only going to cover about 25% of the total cost. the rest will be paid for by saving waste, fraud, and abuse. If you believe that, then I’ve got some January tee time in northern Minnesota.”

Tiny bulbs says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:03 pm

Dora says:

“Did you hear that on Fox News?”

Cash N. Carey says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:14 pm

I thought the dems were the big tent party. Aren’t they the ones that allow dissent in their ranks?

Instead the dems are eating their own. The Democratic National Committee (DNC) is running ads against it’s own party. Is that wild or what? It’s ads are targeting moderates in both the senate and house. The dems can’t keep their own house in order and are now attacking one another. And where is their leadership?

He is off telling folks that if a blue pill works just as well as a red pill but costs half as much, take the blue pill. So today, I went looking for hte cheap blue pills at CVS. They told me the cost was independent of the color!

Maybe Obama was talking about Walmart – they have blue signs, CVS are red. Could this be the basis of his plan – have Walmart run the health industry? Now that might work!?

Nah,based on his news presser last night, he doesn’t have a plan.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 pm

“We’re talking about your partisan dribble the other day that “Rushing the bill” was all Republican propaganda. All Fox News talking points.”

When did I say that?

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:21 pm

The Democrats are arguing over the provisions of a plan. They don’t all agree.

And where are the Republicans? They don’t have a plan other than trying to torpedo the Democratic one solely for political gain.

Oh, they’ll do exactly what Jindahl is now trying to do with the stimulus money. They’ll complain and vote against it and then when something passes they’ll try to take credit for it.

Cash N. Carey says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 9:25 pm

The Washington Pos states: “The president vowed that health-care reform would drive down costs, eventually saving families thousands of dollars. But he struggled to explain how any of the measures under consideration would fulfill that promise.”

How about we lower the costs first? Once we demonstrate these tremendous savings, we can pass a law expanding coverage using part of the savings. Obama says he has 2/3rds of the costs already covered. It should be an easy deal then.

Jay says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:00 pm

Dora: “A. more people still favor health care reform than oppose it.

B. The only party that doesn’t want it is the Republican Party. Democrats are arguing over parts of it, not saying they don’t want it.”

Your first point is largely irrelevant and your second point is false. Of course there are more people who favor change than there are opposed to it…..but there are also way more people who have lmost no understanding of how the current health care system works than there are those who do. And I also don’t see anyone saying that we are not in need of some level of reform.

There are certainly many, if not most, Republicans in office who are in agreement that we need to reform/re-structure Medicare/Medicade. It is a flat-out false statement to say that their party opposes health care reform. Just like the Democrats, they favor parts of it and oppose other parts of it.

People like you are a large reason why it is very difficult to have an informed and honest discussion about the issue because your party loyalty trumps all else.

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:04 pm

“Just like the Democrats, they favor parts of it and oppose other parts of it.”

Yeah? And are they in there trying to hammer it out? No? Then it’s all bullsh1t Jay. Enough of them have said they want to torpedo Obama with this issue. It’s pure sophistry on your part to say otherwise.

להקיא says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:31 pm

They don’t have a plan other than trying to torpedo the Democratic one solely for political gain

Who cares? Every loyal liberal Dem I’ve listened to in the last six months says the Republicans are irrelevent. For every concern I’ve posted here, you’ve focused more on what the Republicans said than the actual issue.

The fact remains that there’s enough problems with the current plan that the Democrats alone can’t get it passed.

Pointing fingers at the Republicans won’t fix it. All that will do is make us independents wonder what reasons we have for keeping the Dems in power.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 pm

Dora, why do liberals insist on giving taxpayer funded health care to illegal aliens

Dora says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 pm

Who cares they don’t have a plan? What you independents will get from Republicans is nothing. At least the Democrats have put something forward. They aren’t pointing fingers at Republicans. They are working on hammering out the details. The Republicans aren’t even in the same ballpark. You want to vote for that? Go right ahead.

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 pm

Dora says:
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:20 pm
So you can’t refute the data, eh DimJim.

I embrace the data, Dora. I hope it is accurate, as it claims malpractice premiums in the current year at about 10 bil.
SO for the next 10 years, the aggregate must be about 100 bil. OK.

That is compared to the CBO data claiming 700 bil per year in NEEDLESS medical testing.
SO for 10 years that is 7 Trillion in needless tests. Trillion with a T!

If one could save 50% thru aggressive tort reform, that would save 3.5 Trillion, or the amount of debt the Dems will run up from 1/07-1/10.
I love the data, just dont call it a study. And
TORT REFORM NOW!
GIVE LAWYERS SOME OF THE GOVT-FORCED BANKER,AUTO,DOCTOR etc INCOME HAIRCUTS!

O.T. says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:53 pm

Cash, you get the pills from Morpheus. If you take the red pill, you see the world how it really is, if you take the blue pill, you remain ignorant of whats really going on around you. It is a bit ironic that Obama said the blue pill was the good one for us. This was a Matrix quote, btw.

O.T. says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 pm

“If there’s a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half price for the thing that’s going to make you well?” — President Obama

In last night’s press conference, President Obama seemed to be reliving that famous scene from The Matrix. The main character is offered a choice between a red pill that makes him see reality for what it is, and a blue pill that allows him to continue living in a pleasant world of illusions.

Last night, President Obama appeared to have taken the blue pill before his press conference. How else could he convince himself, the Congressional Budget Office’s numbers notwithstanding, that his health care reform bill will not increase both health care costs and the federal deficit? How else can he continue to make the argument that a massive expansion of government spending on health care will solve rather than exacerbate the current problems? How can he repeatedly express such absolute certainty that such a measure will easily pay for itself several times over in the long run? Why can he not at least acknowledge the possibility that it will become a costly and useless trillion-dollar boondoggle that follows in the footsteps of his stimulus package?

6th district Jim says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 pm

At least the Democrats have put something forward…..

Yes, and that is 5 trillion increase in federal debt from 1/1/09 thru 1/1/13.
And that is BEFORE a cap and tax, and/or medical insurance plan blows the budget even wider.
As above, the medicare pharma deal was a huge budget buster, but this plan (that nobody still has a clue what it is), will add hundreds of billions of debt per year.
Unless there is a money tree……….

Eat it up Indies, or vote for some change–for the better–in 2010.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 11:00 pm

“TORT REFORM NOW!”

Opposing that and taxpayer healthcare funding for illegal aliens are what liberal democrats thive on!

Vote the democrats out!

להקיא says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 11:21 pm

“They aren’t pointing fingers at Republicans.”

You are.

“The Republicans aren’t even in the same ballpark. You want to vote for that? Go right ahead.”

They don’t need to be. They just need to sit around and do nothing but rant about the Democrats. Just like the Dems did 2004-2008(if I had a dollar for every time I heard “Bush will just veto…”, I could fix the healthcare crisis)

Nor did I say anything about voting for the Republicans. I hope both parties make enough of a mess to open the door for a viable third party.

I’m disgusted with both of them.

6th district Jim says:

July 24th, 2009 at 7:44 am

OT–
I saw the recent dustup here over the “racial” traffic stop, and fortunately it was on tape.
WOW.
I wonder if Gates spewed the filth that this lawyer did……
The Strib “reviewed” the tape, and it was a DOOZY transcript, but it looks like the Strib isnt giving the story any legs.
Will the media be doing stories on this local case, or is it too ugly for our MSM?

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:00 am

Dora: “It’s pure sophistry on your part to say otherwise.”

If by “sophistry” you mean pointing out where and when your party bias shows through in misrepresentation of the truth- yes. I guess so.

To claim that Republicans are opposed to health care reform is false. To say that they are not at all on board with the plan the Democrats are trying to push forward would be an accurate statement. As usual, that’s not the assessment you made.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:03 am

“that’s not the assessment you made.”

Well….at least not until someone bothered to call you on your initial BS staement. i see you’ve back-stepped and are now qualifying that statement in a materially different nature. Which is also fine, if that’s the way you wish to play your game.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:19 am

“They aren’t pointing fingers at Republicans.”

At least this lie is to the point and direct. Thanks Dora for being succinct.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:21 am

“Enough of them have said they want to torpedo Obama with this issue. It’s pure sophistry on your part to say otherwise.”

Its pure sophistry to say the Republicans actually CAN torpedo Obama and the Dems on this issue. Votes count, and BS walks Dora. The republicans have no power to stop this thing from passing. This Bill will pass or fail on the Dems backs alone.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:26 am

The good part about a controlling majority: you can pretty much do what you want.
The bad part about a controlling majority: no one to blame by yourselves.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:28 am

The good thing about a controlling majority: you can pretty much do what you want.

The bad thing about a controlling majority: you have no one to blame but yourselves.

It will be interesting to see how the “victims” among the Party of Assigning Blame maneuver through this.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:31 am

sorry for the double post. I thought it took the revision before posting it.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:34 am

“For every concern I’ve posted here, you’ve focused more on what the Republicans said than the actual issue.”

The actual issue is the health care bill. And since this is a political blog what Republicans and Democrats say about it is part of the actual issue. Perhaps you’re posting on the wrong blog.

Looks like you need a dictionary Jay. No Jay, I’m not “qualifying” my statement. The Republicans have no intention of voting for any health care bill. They’ll piss and moan about how Obama isn’t being bipartisan and even when Democrats include things they want they’ll vote lockstep against it. Just like they did with the stimulus bill.

They aren’t negotiating in good faith at all. They are only interested in making it all about Obama. They’ve been open about that. They may say they aren’t opposed to health care reform but they are not doing anything to be part of the solution. They are putting up every roadblock they can to derail it. They are even lying about provisions in it. To you that means they’re not opposed to health care reform it’s just what’s in the plan. The reality is that no matter what’s in the plan they will oppose it. As De Mint said, they want it to be Obama’s Waterloo.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:34 am

At least you didnt blame the republicans.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:38 am

“At least this lie is to the point and direct.”

Taken out of context you can make anything say what you want it to say.

“Its pure sophistry to say the Republicans actually CAN torpedo Obama and the Dems on this issue.”

And I didn’t say that the Republican’s can torpedo the bill. In fact, I agreed they could not.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:41 am

“They may say they aren’t opposed to health care reform but they are not doing anything to be part of the solution.”

Even better for the Dems. They dont need to be a part of the solution. The Dems dont need a single GOP vote meaning they can shut the GOP out and craft the bill of their choice.

“They are putting up every roadblock they can to derail it.”

Such as? In what ways can the roadblock a vote on this?

No matter what happens Dems like you Dora will blame the GOP for your screw up. You won and are in charge. Its your time now, start leading and get done what the people put you there to do. Get your party to ignore the GOP and get the bill passed. I cant believe the Democrats are so off task that they are actually being distracted by a party with no power and no hope. Its absolutely unbelievable.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:47 am

“At least the Democrats have put something forward. They aren’t pointing fingers at Republicans. They are working on hammering out the details.”

So what exactly was the context then Dora? Do some rhetorical gymnastics and show me how you werent saying the Democrats arent pointing fingers at the GOP. Dont hurt yourself in the attempt.

“And I didn’t say that the Republican’s can torpedo the bill.”

Then what are you worried about with the GOP? Direct some of your energy to the people in your own party that are stalling this bill. Its hard to focus on your team Dora witha critical eye, but give it a shot. Its liberating.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:50 am

Democrats are acknowledging that the Blue Dogs are holding it up. And Republicans are dancing for joy. It makes a good story line. So voting in lockstep is bad but when they don’t yippee they’re falling apart. They’re eating their own. blah, blah, blah.

Truth is Democrats are never as lockstep as Republicans.

What’s in it for the Blue Dogs? Power. It’s always about power in Washington. They know Obama needs them because there are more of them than moderate Republicans who might vote with Democrats. So they are showing their teeth. In the end there will be a health care bill. And I bet like the stimulus bill not one Republican will vote for it. The question is will the Blue Dogs gut enough of it to render it useless.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:50 am

“No Jay, I’m not “qualifying” my statement.”

Anyone who goes back to read the posts in question can easily see otherwise, so I’m not interested in debating something so foolish.

In fact, numerous Republicans have been quite vocal about their desire to overhaul medicare/medicade and use this as the first step toward overall health care reform. They want to chip away at the problem, not blast away blindly. Thus, they are (logically) opposed to a bill that addresses the issue in such a manner. Once again, the party you choose to misrepresent is not opposed to all aspects of health care reform. They are opposed to legislation that they feel addresses the problem in a destructive manner. Unfortunately, that’s all that Congress is currently considering, so the Democrat foot soldiers like yourself will use that as a basis for the claim that they are against ‘everything.’

And for what its worth, this argument doesn’t seem to be as much about health care for you; but rather a desire to protect the teflon coating of your sitting President. Who cares if the opposing party wishes to vote against a sitting Prez? Is that news? Obama has about as much interest in working in a bipartisan fashion as you do.

He does have some good ideas. He just chooses to try and cram the whole batch of ideas, good and bad, down the throats of Congress and the public. Remind you of anyone?

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:54 am

I guess the folks at MSNBC can’t read a police report

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:55 am

“Direct some of your energy to the people in your own party that are stalling this bill. ”

What makes you think I haven’t? Because I don’t come here and announce what I might be doing you assume I’m not doing anything. Well, what else is no, you make alot of assumptions and then go off on a tirade.

Read it in full. It’s clear.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:56 am

They just say “He produced a ID” and leave the part out about the hassles he gave the cop before he did.

They leave a lot of stuff out of their reporting.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:57 am

“What’s in it for the Blue Dogs? Power.”

Or more specifically, the ability to get re-elected. This impending disaster will not sit well with a very fickel public who has shown a desire to Vote for Change already. The best tool to have in the next election cycle will be the ability to say “I’m a Democrat, but I didn’t vote for this steaming turd piece of legislation or that one over there either.”

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 8:59 am

“What makes you think I haven’t? Because I don’t come here and announce what I might be doing you assume I’m not doing anything.”

With the energy wasted here, you could be doing much more…….regardless of what you may be doing that none of us know about. That which we don’t see is irrelevant. Its the amount of effort that we do see which is a complete waste of your time, and probably more effectively spent elsewhere.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:01 am

“Just as 9-11 taught us the painful lesson that oceans could not protect us from terror, today we are deluding ourselves if we believe that climate change will stop at our borders.”

There you go Dora..John Kerry. We are going to die? Sounds like it to me.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:04 am

“What makes you think I haven’t? Because I don’t come here and announce what I might be doing you assume I’m not doing anything.”

Im sorry Dora. I was still thinking about your Blog (No) V Real World (Yes) post from the other day.

How about if I said, why not direct some of your energy on BQ towards your own party?

“Read it in full. It’s clear.”

Clear as mud. Its hard to keep your convoluted split reality posts straight Dora. Are we talking real World today or just BQ?

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:08 am

Oh yes Jay, they’ve been “vocal”. But they aren’t actually doing anything. Where’s their alternative? Boehner just said they aren’t going to put one forward. First he said they would now he says they won’t. Isn’t that exactly what they (and you) criticized Democrats about? Except when Democrats were criticizing Republicans about Iraq they did put out their own plan.

Your entire premise of “blasting away blindly” is false. So anything you say that flows from that is equally false. I reject your premise and your assumptions.

Obama did far more to reach out to Republicans than Bush ever did. It takes both sides. He is not responsible for Republicans refusing to work in good faith toward a bipartisan solution. De Mint and others have made it clear they have no intention of doing so. You can ignore that but it doesn’t make it any less true.

And what exactly is Obama shoving down anybody’s throat. In fact, he’s being criticized for not being more specific about exactly what he wants to see in the bill. I guess it’s been so long for Congress to actually fulfill their responsibility to make laws instead of doing the biding of the President that they’ve forgotten how.

Obama is setting the broad outlines of what he wants to see, just like it used to be done by the Chief Executive, and is expecting Congress to hammer out the details, just like they used to do.

He said he wants a health care bill. Just like Kennedy said he wanted us to land on the moon. It’s up to Congress to get it done and submit it to the President. If they don’t know what needs to be done to get a health care bill hammered out that’s good for the American people then they all need to get kicked to the curb.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:12 am

“With the energy wasted here, you could be doing much more”

Speak for yourself Jay.

“That which we don’t see is irrelevant. Its the amount of effort that we do see which is a complete waste of your time, and probably more effectively spent elsewhere.”

What a f’ning joke. This may come as a complete surprise to you Jay, your assessment of how I spend my time or how you think I could better spend my time is irrelevant.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:21 am

“Clear as mud”.

Of course, since you make your own assumptions and then go off on those. Which you’re doing again with the Blog no v real world yes post. An answer to a completely different question that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. But that’s what you do. You misrepresent what is said and misapply answers from entirely different subjects.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:25 am

“You can ignore that but it doesn’t make it any less true.”

And you can focus on it but it doesnt make it any more relevant. Im amazed at how easily distracted the Dems are.

“And what exactly is Obama shoving down anybody’s throat. In fact, he’s being criticized for not being more specific about exactly what he wants to see in the bill.”

I’m just playing the Devil’s advocate here, but maybe it’s an unspecific health care bill with an unrealistic deadline. The amorphous bill is the ‘what’ and the (missed) deadline is the ‘cramming’.

“Obama is setting the broad outlines of what he wants to see”

Now there is leadership you can hang your hat on. Specifics about what you’ll sign are over rated.

“He said he wants a health care bill. Just like Kennedy said he wanted us to land on the moon. It’s up to Congress to get it done and submit it to the President.”

If you can give specifics about what you want you’re liable to get anything. He needs to do a better job directing congress about what he will and wont sign.

There is only one way to get to the moon. There a countless health care bills that could be crafted. Your comparison is pointless.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:27 am

Tiny, I’m still waiting for you to go back through my posts from the other day to point out my “partisan dribble the other day that “Rushing the bill” was all Republican propaganda. All Fox News talking points.”

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:27 am

“RICHLAND, Wash. AP – The federal government is trying to find a location to store the nation’s excess mercury deposits, with seven states being considered.”

Ooh, ooh, I know what to do with it….pick me…pick me….um…ok…Lets put the excess mercury into light bulbs. No one will ever suspect. It will be like lead paint. 20 years from now they’ll find it to be detrimental to the health and developement of children but by then it will be too late to sue anyone.

What? Whats that you say….its already being done?

CFLs?

Really? The cure all wonder of the loonie’s to get us off of foreign oil?

The soon to be mandated bulbs by the Dems is a toxic waste?

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:30 am

Eliot Spitzer is a commenter on MSNBC? Okay lets put that SC Governor or Mr. Wide stance on as a commenter on FOX and listen to the Doraisms.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:31 am

‘my “partisan dribble the other day that “Rushing the bill” was all Republican propaganda’

Mid July the president comes out and proclaims he wants to sign the bill by August. Thats not rushing it?

Dorat, If they vote on the bill before they have time to read it, thats called rushing it.

Thats a fact, not fox talking points.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:36 am

“Of course Fox and the rest of the rw media distorted what they said.”

“Of course you won’t see that on Fox.”

“Did you hear that on Fox News?”

Dora blaming Fox News for everything and everything. And this is just THIS BLOG

Good enough for me baby?

Dora got those email ready to send to those 54 Democrats that are holding up the Healthcare Bill.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:36 am

Fox already has their pervs with Dick Morris and O’Rielly

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:37 am

If you, or they, don’t know what Obama wants to see by now, they you’ll never know.

Working in a bipartisan fashion is irrelevant? You mean all the Republicans saying they can’t support it because it’s not bipartisan is just a sham?! Who’d have thunk it?

Guess in your world you (or your boss) never sets deadlines in order to get things done. Some people work better under deadlines or things never get done. Guess you have never ever known anybody to which that applies.

But there aren’t “countless” health care bills that have been crafted. You’ve got to start somewhere and if you’re honest about wanting something then you’ll work with it and reach consensus.

And consensus doesn’t mean that you get everything you want it means you can accept what comes out of the negotiations. Republicans are not willing to build consensus. They’ve made their intentions perfectly clear. It remains to be seen how willing the Blue Dogs are.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:39 am

“Of course, since you make your own assumptions and then go off on those”

Dora, I dont assume anything about your private life. One, Id ont give a sh:t what you do in your ‘real world’ private life. Second, any diolague you and I have exists only on this blog. Knowing that, you need to direct some more of your ire at the people who actually have the ability to pass this bill.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:40 am

“Working in a bipartisan fashion is irrelevant? You mean all the Republicans saying they can’t support it because it’s not bipartisan is just a sham?! Who’d have thunk it?”

AGAIN..Who cares you got the numbers VOTE ON IT !

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:41 am

GO email Bra…

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:42 am

“Good enough for me baby?”

uh-huh. As I thought. You can’t because I didn’t say anything about rushing the bill was all Republican propaganda.

So you can’t keep straight who is saying what and just attribute it to whomever you want to criticize.

And you call me a fraud? heh.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:42 am

Since when is it racial profiling when a cop is called to a specific address about a possible breakin by 2 black men. When they arrive the ask the only black man there for an ID.

Thats like saying your racial profiling if you storm a hyjacked plane and shoot the only arab on board holding a bomb.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:45 am

“Dora, I dont assume anything about your private life.”

Okay, now I know that you don’t comprehend what you read. Do you only read ever 5th word or something?

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:45 am

“And you call me a fraud? heh.”

Nope find a post where I mimic almost word for ( such as you do )

Strawman ?

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:50 am

“If you, or they, don’t know what Obama wants to see by now, they you’ll never know.”

The senators voting on this bill have been clear they want more direction from Obama on what he will sign into law. You have no idea what he wants either Dora, other than to say he wants TADA!!!! A health care bill. Wow, amazing.

To use a sports @nalogy…. What if the coach said, go out and play guys, I want to see a win? Gives no direction, calls no plays. Just stands there and tells the team to hurry up. Sound effective?

“Guess in your world you (or your boss) never sets deadlines in order to get things done.”

I wish what I did was as important as overhauling a system that will effect millions of people and $$$Trillions$$$ of dollars.

“Hey Deacon, overhaul the Health Care system would you and have it on my desk by the end of the month!!”

That happens to me all the time Dora.

“You’ve got to start somewhere and if you’re honest about wanting something then you’ll work with it and reach consensus.”

I guess the Dems are being dishonest then.

“Republicans are not willing to build consensus. They’ve made their intentions perfectly clear. It remains to be seen how willing the Blue Dogs are.”

Again, listen carefully, THE GOP IS IRRELEVANT!!!! The Democrats wet dream for years has been to neuter the GOP and make them irrelevant. Now that they are they are whining about the GOPs hot air. AAAAHHHHH!!!!! You’ve gotten what you want and its staring you in the face but you’re so stupid you can’t reach out and grab it.

Oh and I love how the Dems who wont go along are no longer referred to as Dems by liberals like you Dora. Now they are called Blue Dogs only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates. What a party of dysfunctional losers.

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:53 am

Tiny I read the police report as soon as it became available.

I don’t understand why he was arrested? Usually disturbing the peace is reserved for protestors or drunk people rasing too much he11. The guy was p1ssed off and on his front porch yelling at the cops. I’d have been mad about getting ID’d in my own home too.

Why didn’t the officer just leave once he had confirmed Gates’ ID? And why did he ask the Gates’ to step outside? Because the “acoustics” were such that he couldn’t hear the other officers? Gimme a break. He should have just left.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:53 am

“Okay, now I know that you don’t comprehend what you read. Do you only read ever 5th word or something?”

What do you think I was assuming? That you dont critisize Dems outside of the Blog (Private Life)? If thats not the assumption you were talking about, what was it?

parthian says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:56 am

“energy wasted”

My thanks to Dora for her many posts confronting the mistatements of the BQ conservative extremists and right leaning independents. She has basically been the only poster on this blog defending the Dems ongoing attempt to reform health care, which is valuable effort.

Jay as always is full of generalities which he takes as certainties, like his latest idea that “many Repubs” are just full of proposals for reforming health care—why don’t you indentify a competing Repub bill in the House, jay? Why don’t you clue us all in on what the Repubs’ approach is to expanding coverage to the uninsured and combatting the continuing increase in insurance premiums which has reached crisis proportions?

You’re so sure Repubs are workin’ hard on the matter, well, what’s their plan? And if you want to yap about Medicare, be specific as to what the GOoP plan is and some of the Repubs who support it. Also explain how the Repubs (supposed) Medicare and Medicaid reform is supposed to morph into private health care reform for people under 65.

The fact is that the Repubs have not even put forward a competing bill. They have no proposed solutions, none.

As to deacon’s recurring point about Dem power, I think it very likely there will be some health care reform bill presented for a vote in both the House and the senate that addresses the two components of reform specified above. He conveniently never indicates if he supports any proposals that are being discussed.

As Dora says, the question is whether the Blue Dogs really have the power to gut the proposed reforms. I’m going to hazard a guess and say no. I’m more concerned about what the senate bill looks like, it being a given that the House bill will be much, much better for everyone–except the nation’s corporate interests.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:57 am

“And why did he ask the Gates’ to step outside? Because the “acoustics” were such that he couldn’t hear the other officers?”

Sarge
did he ask gates to step out before or after he was shown gates ID. If after, then the cop was out of line.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:57 am

“Now they are called Blue Dogs only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates. What a party of dysfunctional losers”

Assigning blame.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 9:59 am

Dora- I’d agree that Obama is being more bipartisan than Bush. I’d also suggest you need to set your barometer a little higher, if that’s something you consider progress.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:00 am

“I’d have been mad about getting ID’d in my own home too.”

If my door was stuck and I had to jimmy it open and a neighbor saw that called the cops and said ‘a white guy and lady are jimmying the lock on a home in my neighborhood, come check it out’, and the cops did, even if I was pissed, It wouldnt be with the cop. It be with my neighbor who didnt recognize me.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:02 am

“even if I was pissed, It wouldnt be with the cop. It be with my neighbor who didnt recognize me.”

well deacon, you canadians DO all look alike to us americans.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:03 am

parth: “Jay as always is full of generalities which he takes as certainties”

What are you talking about? I said many Republicans supported the overhaul of Medicare/Medicade. That’s a fact. i also said they were largely oppposed to the current plans in front of them. That is also a fact. In my opinion, that’s because the existing proposals are too extensive, too expensive, and possibly unnecessary. That is not a fact, that my opinion.

What is “generalizations” about anything I have said in regards to this? The balance of your post is based off of your immagination.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:03 am

“He conveniently never indicates if he supports any proposals that are being discussed.”

I support a public insurance option provided a way to pay for it can be found. That hasnt been done yet.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:04 am

Yes Sir, No Sir. PERIOD.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:05 am

“you canadians”

My wife is a Canadian, now American, Citizen. I was born in Mpls.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:07 am

“Now they are called Blue Dogs only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates. What a party of dysfunctional losers”

Assigning blame.”

fellas, they call themselves Blue Dogs. They’ve got their own coalition named, wait for it, the Blue Dog Coalition. They name their own spokesperson. They’ve got their own webpage called, wait for it again: The Blue Dog Coalition.

Geez, get a grip.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:10 am

“fellas, they call themselves Blue Dogs.”

Yes, that’s not anything new. They’ve been around for years calling themselves that. What is different is your desire to refer to them as such recently.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:13 am

“…confronting the mistatements…”

That’s why they don’t want me here and are trying to convince me that I’m wasting my time.

Remember tiny’s taunt that he’d run me out of here? That’s why he always pounces. That doesn’t work either.

They make me laugh.

להקיא says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:15 am

Democrats are acknowledging that the Blue Dogs are holding it up. And Republicans are dancing for joy. It makes a good story line.

As an independent, I’m dancing for joy.

The reason? The Blue Dogs seem to be the one group out there interested in representing the views and concerns of their constitutents, or at least giving the appearance of being interested.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:16 am

“Geez, get a grip.”

What I saw and am seeing now is that before this health care bill became political news story #1, it was always GOP v Dems with the partisans here. Now there is a coalition of Dems who arent following the leader and we’ve got the liberals on this BQ blog deciding now is a good time to start breaking their party down into components. Instead of saying we (Dems) arent getting this done, they are lumping the Blue Dogs in with the GOP.

Thats fine. Its a way to deflect blame the entire party deserves by placing it on one group within the party. Thats how I see it. You guys act like the Blue Dogs are their own party now.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:20 am

“What is different is your desire to refer to them as such recently.”

They are in the news now. They are taking credit for stalling the bill.

It’s an accurate way to refer to them especially since that’s how they refer to themselves.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:22 am

parthian: “The fact is that the Repubs have not even put forward a competing bill. They have no proposed solutions, none.”

You’re right. That is a fact. And it is helpful to fuel an honest discussion to accurately portray thinsg in that manner. Dora- take notes.

“Also explain how the Repubs (supposed) Medicare and Medicaid reform is supposed to morph into private health care reform for people under 65.”

While they haven’t put forth a proposal, which we’ve already established, I would suggest that if they did, it wouldn’t. That’s the point. They don’t seem to be supportive of anything above and beyond incremental baby-steps toward addressing this problem, and the Medicare issue is the most immediate threat.

Its a reactionary stance, to be sure. But the comment that started the exchange was Dora’s claim that Republicans were somehow opposed to health care reform, and that simply isn’t true. They are simply opposed to the version of health care before them today.

Should they hammer out a proposal of their own to throw out there and get immediately dismissed? Sure. But the fact that they haven’t doesn’t constitue opposition. It simply constitutes laziness and political gamesmanship.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:24 am

Bill Cosby isn’t happy with Obama for siding with the university prick over the police who did exactly what they needed to do.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:26 am

“It’s an accurate way to refer to them especially since that’s how they refer to themselves.”

What you (liberals) could say is that the Dems dont agree with each other more often than bloviating over the GOPs tactics, which after all are irrelevant.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:27 am

“It’s an accurate way to refer to them especially since that’s how they refer to themselves.”

I didn’t see anyone question the accuracy. Strawman?

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:29 am

“Now there is a coalition of Dems who arent following the leader and we’ve got the liberals on this BQ blog deciding now is a good time to start breaking their party down into components.”

The party has been broken down into components since about 1995. The Dems has never been a party that just follows the leader.

The Blue Dogs are jockeying for power. They didn’t have to jockey for power when the party was not in power so Dems were more united in opposing Republicans. There was no need to talk about the Blue Dogs because they were not putting themselves in the forefront of an issue. Duh.

Talk about backtracking. Or are you and Jay just clarifying your statements. haha.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:33 am

“And it is helpful to fuel an honest discussion to accurately portray thinsg in that manner. Dora- take notes.”

Geez Jay, guess you missed where I said that same thing. Not in those exact words of course.

So the fact that they haven’t put for anything means they do support health care reform but are to lazy to do anything about it.

::rolls eyes::

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:36 am

Illegal alien murderer Armando Torres Romero arrested. He was also a REGISTERED VOTER IN MINNESOTA! (This must be a shock to DFL Dora!)

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/51419197.html?elr=KArksUUUoDEy3LGDiO7aiU

No wonder radicals like Keith Hakim Ellison (lib dem-MN) can get to Washington with our extremely liberal voting policy in which virtually anyone can vote. Ellison by the way is pushing legislation to ban photo ID’s at the polls. Go figure!

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:37 am

“I didn’t see anyone question the accuracy”

Saying that we’re “dysfunctional losers” for calling them Blue Dogs only because we want do distance ourselves from moderates isn’t questioning the accuracy of referring to them as Blue Dogs.

Right. In your world Jay.

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:41 am

Since when is it racial profiling when a cop is called to a specific address about a possible breakin by 2 black men. When they arrive the ask the only black man there for an ID.

Thats like saying your racial profiling if you storm a hyjacked plane and shoot the only arab on board holding a bomb.

Not exactly apples to apples there…I understand why the cop asked for his ID, but given the context of the situation, I can understand why Gates would have been p1ssed too.

I’ve mentioned it here before, but if you’re a caucasian American male walking around any former Soviet big city in Central Asia, you will be stopped by the cops, and you will be searched. It’s kind of scary at first, but after a while, it starts p1ssing you off. It seems like everytime you try to get something done, there’s a guy there wanting to see your ID.

This is what 99% of all black people deal with on a regular basis — but this is their home country.

I’m not saying the officer had committed racial profiling, but since the 911 caller was obviously mistaken, I again have to ask – why didn’t he just leave?

Police report here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates2.html

להקיא says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:41 am

Oh and I love how the Dems who wont go along are no longer referred to as Dems by liberals like you Dora. Now they are called Blue Dogs only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates. What a party of dysfunctional losers.

Oh and I love how the Repubs who wont go along are no longer referred to as Repubs by “real conservatives like you D2. Now they are called RINOS only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates. What a party of dysfunctional losers.

HeHeHe!

I’m posting this as a time saving template for use by all whenever needed, which is often.

Just cut and paste the one you need.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:43 am

oh look how cute. 2Dim is trying to help his friends out by throwing in a distraction.

And Deacon, thanks for your suggestion on what liberals could say. I’m sure we’ll all be sure to say things that meet with your approval next time.

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:45 am

They haven’t determined whether or not he’s an illegal dumb@ss.

You revel in the misfortune of others, don’t you?

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:46 am

Oh and I love how the Repubs who wont go along are no longer referred to as Repubs by “real conservatives like you D2. Now they are called RINOS only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates. What a party of dysfunctional losers.

(Thanks vomit!)

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:50 am

Is there a RHINO coalition in the Republican Party?

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:50 am

“2Dim is trying to help his friends out by throwing in a distraction.”

Dora, democrat vote fraud is by far the most important topic we could be discussing. If I remember right, you said it doesn’t exist, but I just provided proof that even an illegal alien was allowed to be a registered voter because of our stupid liberal rules. We need to start checking ID’s to vote just like we have to in order to get on a flight, cash a check, or buy beer.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:50 am

“So the fact that they haven’t put for anything means they do support health care reform but are to lazy to do anything about it.”

No, it doesn’t *mean* that. Nor did I ever make that ridiculous claim. In fact, my response to parthian clearly stated that they *should* propose something that reflects that which they are saying they do support.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:51 am

“The party has been broken down into components since about 1995. The Dems has never been a party that just follows the leader.”

That may be but on this blog I dont ever recall Democrats refering to themselves by their particular compontent title until Health Care became an issue and they started to look foolish. Now its ‘the GOP is stalling, and its the Blue Dogs!!’.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:54 am

“They haven’t determined whether or not he’s an illegal dumb@ss.”

They said he was a Mexican national dumb@ss! In any case, he has no business voting in American elections which was my point. This libs like him voting though because they know he will vote democrat.

Tiny bulbs says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:55 am

“Tiny I read the police report as soon as it became available.”

The Cop teaches Racial Profiling. Sorry but I had to get that from FOX. I’ve been watching MSNBC but they seemed to have left that fact out.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:55 am

Dora: “Saying that we’re “dysfunctional losers” for calling them Blue Dogs only because we want do distance ourselves from moderates isn’t questioning the accuracy of referring to them as Blue Dogs.

Right. In your world Jay.”

Correct. No one questioned the accuracy of calling them Blue Dogs. Mostly because that’s their self-given name. The motivation for suddenly segregating them from the rest of the party was questioned, and the “dysfunctional loser” label assigned as a result (by someone other than me).

That assessment is right not only in my world, but also the real world. Apparently not in yours though.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:56 am

“Is there a RHINO coalition in the Republican Party?”

It’s RINO Dora (Republican In Name Only).

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:58 am

That may be but on this blog I dont ever recall Democrats refering to themselves by their particular compontent title until Health Care became an issue and they started to look foolish. Now its ‘the GOP is stalling, and its the Blue Dogs!!’

That term has been around since the early 80s DB. The Democrats have been factioned in some way or another since the Civil War.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 10:59 am

The Blue Dogs might be our only hope of avoiding a depression. If Obama gets all of his Marxist wishes, it will destroy this country.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:01 am

The RINO subject is a good example. Republicans were Republicans until the wheels started to fall off a few years ago. Then guys like D2 started railing against RINO’s. Once again, Dora and dare2 are not as dissimilar as they’d like to think.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:01 am

RHINO, haha, a Freudian slip no doubt.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am

“Saying that we’re “dysfunctional losers” for calling them Blue Dogs only because we want do distance ourselves from moderates isn’t questioning the accuracy of referring to them as Blue Dogs.”

Its true though. You are dysfunctional losers and the accentuation of your different coalitions makes you look less united.

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:06 am

The Cop teaches Racial Profiling. Sorry but I had to get that from FOX. I’ve been watching MSNBC but they seemed to have left that fact out.

As usual, everyone’s rushing to point the finger at someone. Regardless of race, the cop shouldn’t have arrested Gates. He got arrested for being p1ssed off and yelling at the cops.

There’s a larger issue here, but it’s really about why the neighbor called 911. My question is, would the person have called 911 if there was a cab and two white guys trying to jimmy the door?

להקיא says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:06 am

” “They haven’t determined whether or not he’s an illegal dumb@ss.”

They said he was a Mexican national dumb@ss! ”

You said he was an illegal alien dumb@ss

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:06 am

“That term has been around since the early 80s DB. The Democrats have been factioned in some way or another since the Civil War.”

Its their achilis heal. Now that they have power they are showing they arent able to lead. I think blaming Reid is as good a place to start as any.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:08 am

I also ment on this blog Sgt. On this blog I never saw the term Blue Dog until recently. The Dem coalition falls apart and the blame game starts. Didnt take long either. Too bad.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:08 am

“Now they are called RINOS only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates.”

Vomit,

Just like soci@lists have taken over the democrat party, liberal RINO’s have infiltrated the republican party and we need to vote them out. Many true conservatives couldn’t vote for McCain because of his many liberal views such as buying into the “Globull Warming” hoax and amnesty for illegal aliens.

McCain was obviously a much better choice than Obama, but maybe this was a good way to flush the liberals out of the party.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:09 am

“Oh and I love how the Repubs who wont go along are no longer referred to as Repubs by “real conservatives like you D2. Now they are called RINOS only as a way to distance yourselves from moderates. What a party of dysfunctional losers.”

Now youre learning Sgt!! Both parties are dysfunctional losers!!

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:11 am

“You said he was an illegal alien dumb@ss”

I’ll bet you 1,000 blog dollars he is Vomit. I can’t think of any reason this murderer would be here legally.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:12 am

The Blue Dogs have a specific coalition and refer to themselves as that, have put themselves in the forefront of a piece of legislation and by me referring to them as Blue Dogs I’m doing what 2Dim does when referring to RINO’s.

Gawd, you are a putz Jay.

Guess the news media should stop referring to them as Blue Dogs too.

And it makes Democrats “dysfunctional losers” for having a Blue Dog Coalition because it makes us look less unified.

Join Jay on the putz train Deacon.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:15 am

And Vomit, why should we allow a non-American citizen to vote, whether he is here legally or not? The liberals have been claiming that their is no proof of voter fraud, but the Star Tribune just showed it exists. Isn’t it time we start asking for identification at the polls to stop guys like Armando Torres Romero from voting in American elections?

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:17 am

Just because he’s a Mexican national doesn’t mean he’s here illegally — and it doesn’t mean that he’s not an American citizen. They’re not mutually exclusive, dummy. You’re so anxious to “prove” that immgrants are dangerous. They’re just like any other group – some are dangerous, but the vast majority aren’t.

The story clearly states that he has documents that appear to indicate he’s an American citizen — even if he’s not, how are you going to stop someone from voting with a fake ID when even the POLICE say it appears to be legitimate?

It must be really depressing in your world, where all immigrants are evil murderers.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:20 am

“Gawd, you are a putz Jay.”

Why? I like the Blue Dogs and support their effors. I used to vote for one religiously when I was in his district. I’d vote for one today if he were running in mine. The group I dislike is yours…..and you are right- it is very separate from Blue Dogs. That is what you cannot get through yoru thick head- no one is aying they don’t exist or that you are inaccurate about their characterization. You are doing *exactly* what Dare2 does, whether they have formalized a coalition or not. It is a matter of desire to distance oneself from moderate elemants of their own party, not whether that element happens to have an official logo or not.

Why would anyone wish to distance themselves from moderates?

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:21 am

“The Dem coalition falls apart and the blame game starts.”

there is no blame. The Blue Dogs are taking credit. And, as even you have agreed, the Dems aren’t one big coalition that just follows the leader.

Nothing that I or any other “liberal” here said about the Blue Dogs is inaccurate or even blaming. It is a fact. It’s you and Jay who are trying to turn that into some kind of hammer.

There is no nail here. You can hammer away all you want. The Blue Dogs are stalling the health care bill. Nobody disputes that. You don’t like that it is a faction of the Democratic Party that is doing it and that I’m pointing that out. Tough. You’re making it about me just like the Republicans are trying to make health care reform all about Obama. (heh. now watch them squeal.)

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:23 am

“Just because he’s a Mexican national doesn’t mean he’s here illegally — and it doesn’t mean that he’s not an American citizen.”

Sarge,
Why would immigration officials be looking into the legal status of an American citizen?

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:24 am

“And it makes Democrats “dysfunctional losers” for having a Blue Dog Coalition because it makes us look less unified.”

It does. A coalition of democrats is stalling the Democrats major Health Care legislation. Within the Democratic party their is dissent, they arent working together. They are dysfunctional.

The purpose of the political party is to deliver votes for legislation. It isnt working. You’re losing your chance at health care reform because your party leader and president cant get them in line. DYSFUNCTIONAL LOSERS…

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:24 am

“The Blue Dogs are stalling the health care bill”

And they may save the economy as a result.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:25 am

“It is a matter of desire to distance oneself from moderate elemants of their own party, not whether that element happens to have an official logo or not.”

There it is again. A false premise. I have no desire to distance myself from moderate elements in my party. I am referring to them as they refer to themselves, as the media refers to them. Your premise is false. Your conclusion is therefore false.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:27 am

“The Blue Dogs are taking credit.”

And you’re pointing it out. Blaming them for the stalling. After youve also blamed the GOP of course, something they too are taking credit for.

להקיא says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:28 am

I’ll bet you 1,000 blog dollars he is Vomit. I can’t think of any reason this murderer would be here legally.

You’re on. I can think of a reason.

Many true conservatives couldn’t vote for McCain because of his many liberal views such as buying into the “Globull Warming” hoax and amnesty for illegal aliens.

Who did they vote for? Did they sit out the election? I’ll bet more true conservatives voted for McCain simply to keep Obama out of the White House.

Isn’t it time we start asking for identification at the polls to stop guys like Armando Torres Romero from voting in American elections?

That, we can agree on.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:28 am

The dems have total control of the White House, Congress, and Senate. If Obama can’t get whatever he wants, the democrat party is a group of DYSFUNCTIONAL LOSERS…

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:29 am

“You don’t like that it is a faction of the Democratic Party that is doing it and that I’m pointing that out.”

Actually Dora, Ive been pointing oput that Democrats are staling their own legislation as a way of pointing out how stupid liberals are for innitially blaming the GOP. Thats what bothers me.

Deal with the fact the Dems cant find consensus and are dysfunctioning.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:29 am

2Dim, why do US citizens get deported?

http://tinyurl.com/2s2m7m

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:29 am

“You don’t like that it is a faction of the Democratic Party that is doing it and that I’m pointing that out.”

Who doesn’t like it? I love it. You appear to be the one who doesn’t appreciate their efforts.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:32 am

“I have no desire to distance myself from moderate elements in my party. I am referring to them as they refer to themselves, as the media refers to them. Your premise is false. Your conclusion is therefore false.”

Fair enough. perhaps distance is the wrong word. None of us can *proove* a desire to distance yoruself, although it certainly appears that way. How about deliniate? or otherwise identifty and separate one group from another, albeit by the proper name.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:36 am

“Deal with the fact the Dems cant find consensus and are dysfunctioning.”

They haven’t found consensus yet. That doesn’t mean they are dysfunctional.

yep, the old ‘damned if you do and damned if you don’t’ at play.

[is "dysfunctioning" even a word?]

“And you’re pointing it out. Blaming them for the stalling”.

It’s a fact. Call it any word you want.

Democrats didn’t start out stalling their own legislation. And once again, something will pass. As I said before, it remains to be seen if the Blue Dogs gut it.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am

“Who did they vote for? Did they sit out the election? I’ll bet more true conservatives voted for McCain simply to keep Obama out of the White House.”

Many true conservatives probably either sat out the election or voted for a third party candidate rather than vote for Juan McCain. Except for his honorable patriotism, his was just like a liberal democrat in many ways.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:39 am

“or otherwise identifty and separate one group from another, albeit by the proper name. ”

They delineate themselves.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:41 am

“It’s a fact. Call it any word you want.”

Party of Assigning Blame versus Party of Instilling Fear. Situation normal.

“Democrats didn’t start out stalling their own legislation”

in fact, no one starts out stalling their own legislation, otherwise it wouldn’t start out.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:42 am

“They delineate themselves.”

yes, of course.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:43 am

“how are you going to stop someone from voting with a fake ID when even the POLICE say it appears to be legitimate?”

Typically liberal thinking Sarge. As long as it’s possible to commit voter fraud with a fake ID, screw the rules and let anyone vote who feels like it.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:46 am

“And once again, something will pass. As I said before, it remains to be seen if the Blue Dogs gut it.”

I agree that soemthing will eventually pass. My hope is that it will be a shell of its current self and contain only a small handful of specific actions to address immediate concerns. Ironically enough, if the dreaded Blue Dogs are successful in “gutting” the legislation to that point, it will probably start to garner Republican support, since that is closer to what they favor anyway.

Then Obama can stand tall and take credit for something that the do-nothing opposition and red-headed step children among his own party created. Just the kind of thing Dora hates.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:52 am

“2Dim, why do US citizens get deported?”

Dora, how far do you expect to get in trying to convince us that murderer Armando Torres Romero is an American citizen? If he is, then we have a suicidal immigration policy of importing very bad people. But I guess we already know that with Minnesota’s strong link to terrorism these days.

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 11:57 am

“I’m not saying the officer had committed racial profiling, but since the 911 caller was obviously mistaken, I again have to ask – why didn’t he just leave?”

Individual arrogance on the part of both parties.

“Police report here:”

Thanks

GO lonoscopy says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

Racial Profiling in my opinion is-

1. cops get a call about a crime committed by 2 black guys in a white neighborhood. within 2 block of crime scene cops stop the only 2 black guys in the area and question them.

2. cops get a call about a crime committed by 2 white guys in a black neighborhood. within 2 block of crime scene cops stop the only 2 white guys in the area and question them.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

“Individual arrogance on the part of both parties.”

Obama showed us again why it was a big mistake to put him in the White House with his rediculous comments on this. This university liberal was trying to start a racial confrontation, much like the Flying Imams.

להקיא says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

Many true conservatives probably either sat out the election or voted for a third party candidate rather than vote for Juan McCain

None that I know sat out the election, and what third party candidate would they vote for?

Barr is pro-choice, and the Constitution party only got >200k votes.

Every RW radio host I heard endorsed McCain.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

“Every RW radio host I heard endorsed McCain.”

I voted for McCain as well. Not because I liked all of his ideas, but I wanted to prevent the damage done to our economy which we are seeing today with Obama’s failing soci@list policies.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

“Many true conservatives probably either sat out the election or voted for a third party”

While I’m a little unclear on what a “true” conservative is exactly, based on what I’ve read here, I find it hard to believe that a “true” conservative would do either of those things. If anything, McCain probably picked up some extra votes from the redneck demographic that doesn’t normally show up, intent on “keeping the colored fella” out of office.

McCain was my guy too, but he lost. Next page.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

” it will probably start to garner Republican support, since that is closer to what they favor anyway”

I’m looking forward to seeing the votes.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

answer the question 2Dim.

Why do US citizens get deported?

Here’s the link again. http://tinyurl.com/2s2m7m

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

Dora,

I’m sure it’s possible that mistakes will be made and a very small number of people could get deported who shouldn’t be, we’re dealing with a government beurocracy for the cryin’ out loud. You’re liberal logic seems to be suggesting that we should stop ALL deportations because of this however. This liberal thinking is kind of like Sarge’s who wants no voting requirements at the polls because it’s possible to commit voter fraud vith a fake ID.

In any case, murderer Armando Torres Romero is NOT an American citizen and should NOT have been registered as a Minnesota voter. This liberal policy of allowing non-citizens to vote needs to stop now.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

“McCain was my guy too, but he lost. Next page.”

The next page of unemployment soon passing 10 percent.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

“I’m looking forward to seeing the votes.”

Fabulous. I’m looking forward to the Blue Dogs gutting the bill.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

“The next page of unemployment soon passing 10 percent”

certainly 10%, possibly 12%. So be it. Occassionally, the economy needs to flush. Sure it sucks to be one of the (predominantly white men) losing your job, but many of the jobs being eliminated are middle management bullsh1t jobs anyway.

Let these companies thin down by getting efficient again and they’ll be back hiring before you know it. I can tell you that at least here in MN (at 3M, Anderson Windows, etc) most of the job cuts we’ve heard so much about haven’t been to the shift labor on the production line. Its been corporate headquarters kind of jobs.

I’m fine with that as a shareholder, taxpayer, and citizen (who doesn’t work there).

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

“You’re liberal logic seems to be suggesting that we should stop ALL deportations because of this however.”

I wasn’t “suggesting” anything. I asked you a question.

“This liberal thinking is kind of like Sarge’s who wants no voting requirements at the polls because it’s possible to commit voter fraud vith a fake ID.”

And he didn’t suggest there should be no voting requirements at the polls either. He asked how you would stop voting with a fake ID.

You do not know that the guy is not a citizen. From what SgtP posted he has documents indicating he is a citizen.

You are doing the same thing the Putz Boys were doing earlier. Start with a false premise and you get a false conclusion.

Jay says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

“Start with a false premise and you get a false conclusion”

The premise was that Dora is suddenly identifying Blue Dogs by name when she didn’t do that before. That wasn’t false. It was factual. Confirmed, and of course, qualified, by you.

We can argue about the extend to which you believe the conclusion to be true all you want, but the idea that there was some sort of “false premise” to begin with is laughable.

You are a child.

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

In any case, murderer Armando Torres Romero is NOT an American citizen and should NOT have been registered as a Minnesota voter. This liberal policy of allowing non-citizens to vote needs to stop now.

It’s against the law dumb@ss, it’s not a “liberal” policy any more than racial profiling is a conservative policy.

You know, it’s people like you who prompted the creation of the American justice philosophy of innocent until proven guilty. You’re a jackass hate-monger and no one here takes your comments seriously.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

Republicans obstruct House proceedings to attend Boehner’s annual beach party.

http://tinyurl.com/lqo2sx

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

Inhofe: If GOP Can ‘Stall’ Or ‘Block’ Health Care Reform, It Will Be ‘A Huge Gain’ For The 2010 Elections

http://tinyurl.com/ktt4e5

Yep, they are really interested in doing something about health care reform.

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

“And he didn’t suggest there should be no voting requirements at the polls either. He asked how you would stop voting with a fake ID.”

Fake ID’s are a separate issue. Requiring ANY form of identification is a great start in making sure only Americans vote in American elections, and also keeps groups like ACORN under control.

“You do not know that the guy is not a citizen.”

The strib called him a Mexican national, and immigration officials are looking into his legal status.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

“suddenly identifying Blue Dogs by name ”

Yep, false premise.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

“The strib called him a Mexican national, and immigration officials are looking into his legal status” AND

that still doesn’t prove he is not a citizen. You have to wait until that is proven. You saying so isn’t proof.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

“Fake ID’s are a separate issue”

And that’s the issue that SgtP asked you about.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

“If GOP Can ‘Stall’ Or ‘Block’ Health Care Reform, It Will Be ‘A Huge Gain’ For The 2010 Elections”

They cant block it which you have admitted is a fact. They are trying to set the stage to take credit for something they had nothing to do with in the first place. The Dems wont pass the bill, and the GOP will try and take credit for it failing, or at least thats what they are trying to do. Morons like D2 will believe its fact and other partisan idiots who hate the GOP above and beyond all else will allow them to take the credit because it makes their deflection of blame from those actually responsible for its failure easier to pull off. They want the credit and you want a scapegoat. Perfect marriage.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

“that still doesn’t prove he is not a citizen.”

Is dual citizenship allowed with Mexico?

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

“Yep, false premise.”

Ive never seen a single poster here refer to them by name until now. Not once.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

“Ive never seen a single poster here refer to them by name until now. Not once”

And???

“They cant block it which you have admitted is a fact.”

Inhofe said that, not me. It tells you all you need to know about their mindset. And if Dems don’t pass a bill I’ll be blaming the Blue Dogs that Jay is rooting for.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

“And???”

So, as far as I can tell its a new development making this “Dora is suddenly identifying Blue Dogs by name when she didn’t do that before.” not a false premise. Of course you probably have been walking around in the real world for years complaining about the Blue Dogs. Thats not the premise. The premise is, your refering to that part of the demiocratic party by name is new to BQ.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

“The premise is, your refering to that part of the demiocratic party by name is new to BQ”

What’s the significance of that? It’s silly. I pointed out that there was no need to mention them when Dems were out of power because the Dems were united in opposition to Bush. Why would there be any discussion on this board about them? There have been no stories about them either. So now there is a reason to discuss them and you and Jay take umbrage to me using their name–OMG–for the first time on this blog! OH NOES!!

But the real premise was not that it was new for me to use their name on BQ. Because it’s insignificant and it’s silly. The real premise was that I was doing so because I was trying to distance myself from moderates. You (and Jay) are working hard to qualify it to the silly reason. It’s not working.

So, saying that the premise is that I never mentioned their name before is itself a false premise.

Dora says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

More evidence that Republicans really are interested in working on health care reform

From Howard Fineman:

I talked to people on the Hill all day today. I talked to Republicans as well as Democrats. Republicans claims they have a plan. They don’t. They claim they’re going to have a plan. They won’t. Their whole strategy … is to stand on the sidelines with their arms folded while the Democrats try to work this thing out. That’s their whole strategy.

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

[i]The strib called him a Mexican national, and immigration officials are looking into his legal status. [/i]

You probably didn’t get past reading in 2nd grade so let me explain it to you — “looking into his legal status” means that it hasn’t been determined yet.

Hence my comment about you judging things before all the facts are in.

SgtPendleton says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Is dual citizenship allowed with Mexico?

Yes, and if you’re parents are Mexican citizens, you’re considered a Mexican citizen as well.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

“What’s the significance of that? It’s silly.”

Three things. One, its not a false premise.

Two, its friday.

Three it just shows the lack of unity the Dems have.

” It’s not working”

Oh its working. BELIEVE me, its working. You just dont know how.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

“Hence my comment about you judging things before all the facts are in.”

Like Obama and the Gates arrest?

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

“So, saying that the premise is that I never mentioned their name before is itself a false premise.”

Whatever you say Dora.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

“More evidence”

Does Mr. Fineman have any quotes to share from the people he talked to on the Hill? If not, it’s heresay and isn’t evidence of anything.

Deacon Blues says:

July 24th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

‘(Gates)is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don’t know all the facts.’

Sgt. this should be a problem dont you think?

dare2sayit.com says:

July 24th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

“It’s against the law dumb@ss, it’s not a “liberal” policy”

It sure is a liberal policy Sarge. Minnesota has the most liberal voting policy in the country. Republicans have tried to enact common sense voting rules to keep guys like Armando Torres Romero from voting in our elections, but the libs block it every time because they know voter fraud helps the democrat party.

SgtPendleton says:

July 25th, 2009 at 8:24 am

Okay. Well, maybe you can point out some cases of documented voter fraud in which more than one person took part.

You can’t, because it doesn’t happen. You just need to wake up and realize that everyone else in this country is more liberal than you are.

Dora says:

July 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

“Minnesota has the most liberal voting policy in the country.”

Not true. And I’ve pointed this out before. North Dakota doesn’t have voter registration.

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