Verbatim

Bachmann: “I am sorry if my words have been misconstrued”

February 23rd, 2007 – 4:15 PM by Eric Black

U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann is declining to be interviewed about her statement that an agreement was in place to divide Iraq and create an Iranian-controlled terrorist safe haven there.

But she has issued a statement in which she says she’s “sorry if my words have been misconstrued.”

In the statement, Bachmann gives a new, far more uncertain vision of the possible bad consequences of an increase in Iranian influence over parts of Iraq.

The statement is framed as a clarification of Bachmann’s earlier statement, made Feb. 9 to Larry Schumacher of the St. Cloud Times. But the new statement actually retracts most of what she said on the subject to Schumacher. (Here’s a substantial excerpt from that statement, if you don’t want to listen to the full audio.)

In the new statement, there is no reference to a decision that’s already been made, by Iran and unnamed other parties, to partition Iraq.

Rather, Bachmann alludes to the idea of  partitioning Iraq that she says has “intermittently considered,” not by Iran but by U.S. policymakers or others commenting on what U.S. policy should be in Iraq.

On Feb. 9, Bachmann said: “There’s already an agreement made” by Iran and some other unspecified party to create an Iranian-controlled zone in which terrorism would flourish.

The new statement replaces that with: “It is difficult to ascertain Iran’s intentions towards Iraq.”

Bachmann told Schumacher with certainty that Iran planned to establish in Iraq “a terrorist safe haven zone where they can go ahead and bring  about more terrorist attacks in  the Middle East region and then to come against  the United States.”

 In the new statement, she expresses a concern that “we may very well see a de facto partition in which the western Anbar Province continues to house and develop terrorists.”

I am still requesting an interview with Bachmann to clarify the differences between the statements.

418 Responses to "

Verbatim

Bachmann: “I am sorry if my words have been misconstrued”"

Disco says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

Still a psycho.

MPL says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

Disco sucks as well

Jonathan P. Scoll says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm

Michele Bachman should let the CIA, Defense Department, and White House know, right away, of this dastardly new plot by Iraq. How COULD everyone else have missed it? Could it be you have to be Michele Bachman to hear the voices in the air emanating from… the looney kingdom of Bachmanistan?

Frosty says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

How did this loon get elected?

Pat says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:36 pm

Bachmanistan – that made my day!

eric says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:37 pm

Misconstrued? Yep, I guess we missed the part where she said, “what I am about to say is, well, completely made up. So don’t quote me.”

What a tool.

bsimon says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:38 pm

“U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann is declining to be interviewed about her statement[s about Iran's influence in Iraq.]”

Phooey.

Pat says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:39 pm

Eric – maybe she thought she was talking to an intrepid reporter from The Onion…

eric says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

By the way – I have to poop on my self, se ya.

Robert says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

Perhaps we can have a re-call or have that loony, right wing nut job censured before she can say anything more out there than this.

But she’s no different than the nutjobs in the White House so we’re probably just hosed till the next election.

Sgt. Rock says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

Thanks for blaming the victims, Michelle!
What a crock! You open your mouth and it is our fault for “misconstruing your words”.
You would be the one responsible for communicating in such a way that we understand your message.
And I have to tell you, you are continuing to come in broken and stupid.
Thanks for making us proud.

Carter says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

Too little too late. She came of sounding like the quack on the street corner ringing a bell and wearing a sandwich board. This statement does nothing to address her previous remarks to Larry Schumacher – I guess you can’t explain crazy.

Dave says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

She’s nuttier than squirrel crap. Funnny, most of the people in her hometown of Stillwater didn’t vote for her because they know she’s a loony.

Sorry USA, we Minnesotans are embarrassed too.

hunter says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

I found this wild !!!!

Fierce Battles Between Mujahideen And US, Iraqi Forces Reported In Diyala
Feb 22, 2007
By Ubaidah Al-Saif, JUS | Arabic Source: Al-Fajr Media

The Islamic State of Iraq, may Allah honor it, has been engaged in a fierce battle with a large contingency of US and Iraqi national guard forces in the Buhruz region of Diyala province that followed several days of defensive action to thwart the invaders efforts to enter this region now part of the Islamic state.

With all attention turned to Baghdad, it should not be overlooked that US forces are continuing their efforts, albeit in vein, to enter the areas of Al-Anbar and Diyala province that make up a large portion of the territory under Islamic States control. The battle in Diyala is just another example of the futility of the American effort, who were prevented from entering its territory.

Here is the report from the Islamic State of Iraq that details the battle, published here uncut and uncensored, as translated by JUS.

We remind our viewers that the opinions and points of view expressed in this statement are those of the author and shall not be deemed to mean that they are necessarily those of JUS, the publisher, editor, writers, contributors or staff

The Islamic State Of Iraq Confronts Common Forces In Buhruz Region In Diyala Province

In The Name Of Allah The Most Gracious The Most Merciful

All praise be to Allah, The Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds. Peace and prayer be upon our prophet, Muhammad, his family, and his companions.

On Sunday February 18, 2007, Allah granted success to the Mujahideen of the Islamic State of Iraq, may Allah honor it, to confront a very large contingency of common forces made up of cross worshippers and national guards in the Buhruz region of Diyala province. These forces were prevented from entering the region over several days as the result of engagements using light and medium-sized weapons and RPG missiles. Many of their soldiers were killed and wounded, while two national guard Hummers were destroyed by detonating at them that at them killing all those on board and stopping their entry to the region. In addition, a sniper shot and killed a captain in the national guards and another soldier with him. Despite the large number of forces, they were unable to enter the Islamic State being forced to retreat humbled and defeat by the grace of Allah.

These operations are part of the Al-Karama (Honor) Expedition declared by Sheikh Abu Omar Al-Baghdadi, Amir of the Islamic State of Iraq, may Allah protect him.

Oh Allah, defeat the spiteful Shiites and Zionist crusaders and their allies. Make them, along with their equipment, booty for the Muslims, Oh Allah destroy them…

Oh Allah, defeat the USL (United States Losers) and its allies and make them, along with their equipment, booty for the Muslims, Oh Allah destroy them…

Oh Allah, the sky is yours, the earth is yours and the sea is yours, Oh Allah, force their planes from the skies, destroy all their forces on the land and sink all their ships on the sea…

Oh Allah, retaliate upon them and afflict them like you did Pharaoh and his nation. Oh Allah, afflict their country with floods, make them poor, hungry, and small. Oh Allah defeat them, destroy them, for You are the All Strong, the All Mighty.

Allahu Akbar!

“Honor, power and glory belong to Allah, to his messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites know not.”

Information Ministry
The Islamic State of Iraq
4 Safar 1428
February 21, 2007

Gary says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

Just think, now I get to get on the freeway with you hateful people.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

Months ago, prior to her election to Congress, on this very blog, I was taken to task for referring to her as a “nut.”

I even gave other bloggers here, Bachmann supporters, a chance to offer a nicer word than “nut” to describe her– I promised to use it if they could come up with a more polite term that accurately conveyed her mental state (given her documented record of conspiracy theory peddling and paranoia.)

Nobody ever rose to the challenge, not even her staunchest defenders. And now we see why: “nut” it is.

Montyman says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

How badly does this woman need attention? For her to make statements like that to a REPORTER and then have to eat her words is pathetic and dangerous. She needs to get on Steven Colbert’s “Better Know A District” segment. Can anyone imagine what Colbert could bait that bat into saying? The possibilities are tantalizing.

Tmon says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

This is what happens when you get you talking points from Fox News and their Neo-Con friends. It’s too much to hope she’ll develop critical thought this late in the game.

Peter Johnson says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

Ah, a conservative that predicts the future. What next? Will she predict stocks that will double in value overnight? We elected this person? Shame!!!

Lane says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

Still waiting for the Strib story on Ellison’s comments (his silence so far)on the contrived Imam plot at MSP airport and the US Airways flight

jpberka says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

This is a perfect example of how much Michele Bachmann does NOT know about Iran, Iraq, and the entire region. Anbar Province is populated by Sunni muslims, NOT Shia muslims. Iran is not going to support Sunnis. It certainly isn’t going to support Sunni terrorists who would like nothing better than to destroy Shia muslims.

Iran would NOT support Al-Qaeda because Al-Qaeda comes out of Sunni muslim groups, NOT Shia muslim groups.

Michele Bachmann needs to read up on her middle eastern history and politics before she makes up fictional stories.

Diga Me says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

The spontaneous visions must have faded…

Mike says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

This Stepford wife tore a page stright from W’s book on How to Make A Case for Rushing Into War: grossly exaggerate a rumor or off-the-cuff remark and state it as fact in an attempt to create angst and consternation. She’s a disgrace. No shock that she’s W’s butt-girl.

assassin9 says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

I bet she is getting this from some wildly vague prophesy in the Bible.

JIm says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm

Maybe she got this information from the Big Guy himself when she cozied up to him at State of the Union time on the floor of the House.

Pat says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm

In the silver lining department, the erstwile head chesse of Bachmanistan (copyright Jonathan P Scoll) may yet succeed in something productive. What’s the you ask? Uniting all of us that don’t seem to be able agree with each that she is a moron.

Or.... says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

Please finish this statement:

“Michelle Bachmann needs…”

Peter Johnson says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

Sorry folks, it is Friday and I need to get my daily dose of Cool-Aid -blog to you later

blainiac says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

If you really want to see something funny, read Bachmann’s ‘statement’ from today.

While I realize that no politician actually writes their own press statements, the one Bachmann’s handlers released today goes totally overboard to try and imply a level of knowledge about Iraq that we now know with certainty that Bachmann doesn’t have.

What a crackpot.

It would be as though Bush issued a scientific journal article as a ‘statement’ clarifying his new found belief in climate change after years of moronic denial…

ontologicalineptness says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

I am afraid Minnesota hasn’t changed since I left there four years ago; you still have your head stuck so far in the “snow” you can’t see daylight. Anyone that doesn’t see the threat of total control of Islam is fooling themselves. She probably got a lot of her information from the president himself (See Whitehouse speech: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060905-4.html) I wish someday you 60′s pot smoking utopians would get a clue before it is too late. You have no problem believing in global warming but you find it hard to believe a ideology wants us all snuffed out. I am amazed at your pedagogical ineptness! The use of the phrase, “global Islamic empire” was used on an expose’ by Beck which aired on CNN, so she just didn’t make all this all up. Grow up hippies, and get a life!!!! strib especially.

JIm says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

I cozy up to stray cats for my info.

jpberka says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

In reference to the post by Hunter dealing with Diyala province, this business about stopping Americans is for the birds. My brother is presently fighting in Diyala province with the 1st Cavalry Division. They’re there. And yes. It’s dangerous. REALLY dangerous. But they’re not going anywhere. Frankly, I wish they WOULD get out. It isn’t worth it. The place is an absolute mess.

Lame Cherry says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:49 pm

I just appreciate the veneer of Minnesota smiles which under it is hate, bigotry to anyone not “them”, self absorbed godlike insight and Hillary Clinton fakism once you start talking.
The Trib thought this a story to skewer a Republican, but never decided to check if sources actually are telling Congress people this.
Remember Mark Dayton and his evacuation? See our leaders are told all sorts of raw data the media hides and lies about.
But you Minnesotans of the Tribclan keep talking as you sound like the Taliban hating all not “Minneleftism”.

blainiac says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm

With regards to crack pot, I need another hit on my pipe!!

dacomentator says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm

Yep. Definitely a Bushie; what she don’t know she makes up. Just watch, if she starts labeling all those who disagree with her as unpatriotic and pandering to terrorists, she’ll be appointed by Cheney to replace Scooter Libby.

Just what part of Bush’s anatomy did she kiss anyway?

eric says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:51 pm

ontologicalineptness says:
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm
I am afraid Minnesota hasn’t changed since I left there four years ago; you still have your head stuck so far in the “snow” you can’t see daylight.

You are correct. If anything, we are even *more* liberal than four years ago. Beware – don’t be tempted to come back – It’s practically all pot smoke and daisies here. They even put in one of those hippie electric trains! We will miss you but it is better that you don’t return!

Kasper says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Here is a website that might help you understand why Bachmann is so obsessed with Iraq and Iran and the “evil terrorist”

http://www.dccc.org/stakeholder/archives/005688.html

When you get the interview…ask her why she took the $$$ and what she plans to do to return the $$$$?

norvin says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm

That Michelle Bachmann is smokin hot. She’s definitely a total whack job, if you know what I’m sayin.

Pat says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Lame Cherry – I am actually one of the non-leffties on here and Bachman is an idiot. She deserves to be skewered!

Sgt. Rock says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:53 pm

Hey Ontologicalineptness – check your meds and calm down.

The point isn’t about the real threat of radical Islam, the point is the threat of this loon representing us in Congress.

And she isn’t helping anyone. Making wild statements and then retracting them will only send one message – Michelle Bachmann cannot be trusted.

eric says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:53 pm

O yay! they let me play with lttle boys too!!!

norvin says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:53 pm

I agree with Pat– She deserves to be skewered in a big big way. Where do you sign up?

bones says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:53 pm

hey Lame,
Did you hear her word’s? Why will she not grant an interview. Did you even read her latest statement or are you just blindly toeing the party line? BTW, nice work mixing in the Taliban and also, that Mark Dayton crap was blown out of proportion by your hero’s at Fox.

Pat says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:56 pm

Michelle Bachmann, currently a US Representative and the leader in the ongoing game titled “I Dumber Than You Are”

bones says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm

If you need real facts, John Stuart is the best source of news – bar none.
Speaking of bars, I need a hit of Cool-Aid!!

mike says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm

Let them create the terrorist heaven then we can find them and eliminate them all…one bomb one less problem…

richard says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm

ok black lay off. you never went after wellstone for all of his follies. she said that she misspoke, so give her the benefit. you so proudly said that kerry botched a joke right. wellstone was only going to run 2 terms then bush won and out went that promise and he was on tape saying it. black you aqre soooo transparent

Pat says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:59 pm

just call me Ass-Wipe!!

norvin says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 4:59 pm

Guess she didn’t realize what a short trip it is from some backwater supermarket rag in the boonies of central Minnesota to a smokin hot, front page and above the fold, link on Drudge.

She best be keeping that purty little mouth of hers shut, next time she finds herself privy to some classified info.

hunter says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm

this is the twisted stuff they put out to have their people learn, to brain wash them into the way of the jahad, they don’t have much truth to deal with. remember when they said no troops
were in Baghdad and a tank was in the street!!!!

Lane says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:02 pm

Eric

I’ll say it again

Still waiting for the Strib story on Ellison’s comments (his silence so far)on the contrived Imam plot at MSP airport and the US Airways flight

You hypocritical phony

norvin says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:03 pm

By the way, I think eric has a purty mouth too!

sux says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:03 pm

flip flop, flip flop, flip flop

eric says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:06 pm

norvin, I never knew, can I have a Kiss??!!

Tom says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:06 pm

If she weren’t actually making decision on behalf of Minnesotans, her antics would be amusing. Instead, she is beyond embarassing.

Suz says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm

If this was in the St. Cloud paper on Feb. 10th, why did it take until the 23rd to show up in the Strib???

Tom says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm

In fact she is almost as embarassing as Wellstone.

Bach Mania says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:11 pm

Good to see someone with the ourage of her delusions.

k. ellison says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:13 pm

Why would iran want to absorb their fellow shiite mahdists in iraq? I just can not comprehend it…probably because I am a nonsensical idiot who has poop for brains.

L David says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:13 pm

Bachmanistan…I love it
Bachmanistan – Where Queen Bachmann and King Bush Rule?
Bachmanistan – the land where Mac Hammond’s castle reside and he can ride his motorcycle as fast as he wants?
Bachmanistan – Where only 100% heterosexuals live (like Ted Haggard)?

jamie mccain says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:14 pm

Gee….why would Iran want to do such a nasty thing…We can always trust Iran at its word.

GradGirl1 says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:15 pm

In response to
“ontological ineptness:
She probably got a lot of her information from the president himself”

Yes, right after he told her about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, he must have told her about this, too.

Pem500 says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:18 pm

I still wonder how she was elected.

Adam says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:19 pm

Maybe God told her.

Randy says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:23 pm

Lane–What does Keith Ellison not speaking out (and the Strib not covering his not speaking out) have to do with this story? Rep. Bachmann makes a spectacular, attention-getting claim about Iran, and then almost admits that it was a bunch of rubbish. Are you claiming that she should get a pass because a story about a Democrat was not covered to your satisfaction?

Would she have said anything–even the little bit that her handlers let her say–if she hadn’t been pressed?

hunter says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:24 pm

stick your head in the sand and see what happens, they want you yet they don’t love you!!! This IS now a war of Fatwah, the true God-Christ who they Hate

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:25 pm

I read the new statement.

What happened to the map?

CIA made her eat her copy and then deny it ever existed?

Whatever happened to PLAUSIBLE deniability.

This is something entirely different.

Michele Bachmann PLAUSIBLE unreliability.

This menace to the sane conduct of foreign affairs should be gagged.

W. take the big step, make the big sacrifice. Kiss the idiot again so she will shut her mouth.

Lane says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:30 pm

Randy

My point is that the Strib and local media gives Ellison a pass when in fact they should scrutinize his behaviour as much (or maybe more so given his penchant for actually violating the law)

Eric is one significant part of a paper who has it’s head up the DFL ass

Randy says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:30 pm

I see Rep. Bachmann referred to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as “crazed, delusioned . . . literally a madman.”

So the two of them would seem to have a lot in common.

DJ says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:31 pm

If you are able to replay Rush Limbaugh’s show from today (02/23/07), he referred to this very story. It was REALLY funny – - he kept saying “This representative, this Michele Bachmann is from Minnesota. She’s a Democrat. She HAS to be a Democrat.”

I felt that he was implying, ‘well – - those flakey Dems from Minnesooooota….how can you believe anything they say?!?’

Limbaugh continues to read the interview with the St. Cloud reporter, someone must speak into his headphones, and Rush says “OH!! She’s a Republican! Well, there must be something to this story!”

I am convinced, that God spoke to Rep. Bachmann….isn’t that her source and her strength?!?!?!?!?

Truthseeker says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:32 pm

Michele Bachmann’s statement is LIVE all over the web. It can’t be misconstrued.
Here are some of her best!
A few of Mr. Avidor’s best you may want to share with other sites/papers. Just tell them to search “Avidor” on youtube.

God told me to run for Congress. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0rUBomKvY0
My FAVORITE. Terry Schiavo is healthy Audience laughs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f13Dj2HaRWg
Global Warming. The audience LAUGHS at her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wX1UnAtynU&mode=related&search=
Intelligent design! (not obvious listening to her)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Damah0KH-Co&mode=related&search=
I’m a (hot) Fool for Christ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ4wtwcrybM

John Galt says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:32 pm

ontologicalineptness,

AMEN

kate says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:37 pm

The fact is she didn’t know what she was talking about and kept makin’ it up as she went along. She even went so far as to say it was going to be named……The Nation of Islamic…..?

She probably will be elected again as her supporters are Stepford wives and husbands. Programmed to accept anything she says as gospel ;) They are the same that still support Bush and they all live in the 6th!

Jodi says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:39 pm

Michele Bachman should join Britney Spears in rehab. How this person ever got elected is amazing. We need to call for her resignation. Was she hiding in the “bushes” in Washington to hear this?

kate says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:42 pm

Jodi – No she was hiding under Bush’s desk!!!

Kman says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:50 pm

Crazy Mark Dayton actions all over. Can we get some sane Representatives in Congress? I.e. Elison.

Thomas says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 pm

kate – President Clinton or President Bush? Under which one’s desk would you want your daughter?

ontologicalineptness says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:02 pm

I agree with most everyone in this post, Ellison better represents Minnesota than the radical republican. As represented by Jeff Goldenberg’s previoulsy unpublished June 5 letter to the editor of the Star Tribune:

Keith Ellison’s letter to Stephen Silberfarb, Executive Director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas (JCRC) allegedly addresses his past ties to the racist, anti-Semitic Nation of Islam and other questionable associations Mr. Ellison has made during his adulthood (Star Tribune June 3, 2006). However, the heart of Mr. Ellison’s letter, at least as it pertains to the Nation of Islam is somewhere between disingenuous and utterly dishonest.

Eleven years ago Mr. Silberfarb’s predecessor at the JCRC called me when former Nation of Islam spokesman Elijah Muhammed was invited to speak at the University of Minnesota. The JCRC was alarmed and concerned that the Nation of Islam, with its consistent history of bigotry, racism, anti-Semitism and hatred was provided such a prominent stage from which to spread its message.

Due in part to my involvement in the African-American community, I was asked to attend this meeting, make notes of what I heard and saw and report my findings back to the Executive Director. I accepted the assignment. It is a matter of public record that Mr. Ellison was a leading local participant in that meeting.

In the heart of his letter to Mr. Silberfarb, Mr. Ellison states “I did not adequately scrutinize the positions and statements of the Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan and Khalid Muhammed. I wrongly dismissed concerns that they were anti-Semitic.”

Let me explain a bit about the meeting where Mr. Ellison stood with former Nation of Islam spokesman Khalid Muhammed. After he was introduced, Mr. Muhammed let loose with a vitriolic rant attacking gays, Jews, whites and others. But that was just the warm-up.

Next, Mr. Muhammed intentionally embarrassed, intimidated and personally attacked members of the audience in the University of Minnesota lecture hall that evening.

First he came after me. Out of a crowd of perhaps a couple of hundred, I was among a small handful of Caucasian attendees. “Hey, cracker taking notes there, what’s your name?” Mr. Muhammed demanded as he pointed his finger at me where I sat in the middle of the hall. “What’s a cracker doing here taking notes?” I smiled to mask my fear, turned beet red and said nothing as Mr. Muhammed continued to aim his racial intimidation tactics at me for another minute or so.

Then things really turned ugly. Towards the front of the hall sat an African American man and a Caucasian woman. Mr. Muhammed turned his attack on them. Upon confirming they were boyfriend and girlfriend, he attacked the man for having a white girlfriend. He attacked the man for bringing his white girlfriend to this public event. He asked personal and inappropriate rhetorical questions about why this African American man would choose a white girlfriend. He brought the young woman to tears in front of hundreds of people. Mr. Muhammed relentlessly attacked, embarrassed and intimidated this innocent pair because they were a bi-racial couple.

From his place by Mr. Muhammed’s side in 1995 what exactly was there for Mr. Ellison to scrutinize? With the racism, hatred and anti-Semitism of the Nation of Islam laid bare for him that day, Mr. Ellison turned a blind eye in pursuit of his own personal objectives. Now he attempts to paper over his ugly past apparently for the same reason.

Jeffrey H. Goldenberg “

DRP says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:03 pm

I am good and sick and tired of people saying “I am sorry” — “i apologize” “if” I ofeended someone. HELLO !!! Think before you speak or stick up for your guns. APOLOGIZING HAS BECOME COVER FOR GETTING IN THE NEWS FIRST TO POISON THE WELL — IT HAS BECOME AS BAD AS REHAB. WHAT WE NEED IS APOLOLOGIA.COM to smoke out all the two-faced bas****s who milk the media with unsupported BS crap

Agmines says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:05 pm

Nugent, an avid hunter, was being interviewed by French
Journalist.

The journalist asked, “What do you think the last thought
is in the mind of a deer before you shoot it?

Is it, “! Are you my friend?”or is it “Are you the one who killed my brother?”

Nugent replied,

“Deer aren’t capable of that kind of thinking.

All they care about is, ‘What am I going to eat next, who am I going
to screw next, and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very
much like the French.”

The Shiites will cross the line someday whereby there will be no point of return. They have been mad ever since Mohammed died, (He Did Not Ascend Into Heaven In Jerusalem) and the Sunni’s defeated the Shiites whereby their leader the Hidden Iman has been hiding ever since to return.

Shiites may blow up some cities but in the end, they will be blown away as fitting for a messiah people looking for paradise out of this world.

They were named right if you look at the first 4 letters.

Gary Denton says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:12 pm

Bachmanistan, Bachmanistan, a nation turns its looney eyes to you.

Bachmanistan, Bachmanistan, Bush told me it must be true.

Thomas – consider the relative demerits of taking it in the ass or giving a bj.

Jeff says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:13 pm

Bachmann needs an intervention followed by rehab admission.

Jeff says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:16 pm

A faith-based rehab program, of course.

Karl says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:16 pm

This better not be the last of this story we see in the newspaper, Eric. This needs to be expanded upon on the front page. If Bachmann thinks she can spew this kind of Joe McCarthy crap in a small-market newspaper interview without paying the consequences, she better think again. Bachmann needs to be nailed to the wall with this monumental fabrication. Don’t let go until you get that interview.

DRP says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:18 pm

send her back to high scool — maybe junior high — so she can deal with something that she may be compeyent to do, e,g,. co-student counsel president with Bill Clinton — or monitoring the lunch line

Blue Grass Tom says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:20 pm

I am out-of-stater. Any of you geniuses at the Star-Tribune ever think of letting us know what political party that Ms. Bachmann represents? I know Minnesota is kind of challenged when it comes to normal politicans, but hey, at least give us some basic facts folks!

Karl says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:21 pm

Follow the link to the podcast and listen to the whole thing. You’ll hear many more fabrications from Bachmann. I like her notion that this whole Sunni-Shiite conflict is just a recent development. Like how recent–since the 1300s?

kitty says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:26 pm

ontologicalineptness
pedagogical ineptness? what does that mean? we are bad teachers? What does that have to do with the discussion of whether or not rep. bachamnn is a nut job?

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:32 pm

Earlier, “Or…. says:”

“Please finish this statement:”

“Michelle Bachmann needs…”

Barney Frank, Lynn Nofziger, and Ron Paul have the answer:

Michele Bachmann needs to get NORML.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5359

Whatever she’s been smoking, It’s not been good for her cognizance and cognitive revisions – Michele get NORML.

Justin C. Adams says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:33 pm

Wow, I missed a lot in 4 hours.

I have to say, this is a great thing. 502 comments on the last thread?

What a good break with a Bachmann story with a direct link that looks just like any other above the fold story on the online edition splash page on the day Mr. Tice officially joins.

I really am not suggesting anything sinister, but I wonder if so many thread posts scared her away.

What I want more than an interview is an online event. She can type. Let’s see what she has to say.

Could we at least ask her if she’d prefer to do it that way?

Karl says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:33 pm

Blue Grass Tom–

Michele Bachmann is a “Religious Right Republican” of the Falwell/Robertson/Schlafley ilk. Some of us call them “Evangelicans.” She represents the 6th Congressional District in Minnesota.

Justin C. Adams says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:47 pm

Kitty, he means it in the more derrogitory sense, more like propagandist than teacher, and then he says that we’re not good propagandists.

Some of the comments on the thread deserve that.

DJ says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:47 pm

I am ever so surprised to see that Blue Grass Tom wasn’t listening to his close, personal friend Sid Hartman – - I mean, Rush Limbaugh!! He would know Representative Michele Bachmann hails from the vented Sixth District (i.e. “Stearns County Syndrome”).

He would fit RIGHT in – - I am arriving at this deduction, but ready his well written, thoughtful query.

Justin C. Adams says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:47 pm

BGT – She is worth reading into – she is the person in our state with the Gay Marriage Amendment tattoo.

DJ says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:49 pm

Okay – - I am sounding as if I am “Blue Grass Tomette” – - I meant to say…

“but read his well written thoughtful query”.

Eva Young says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:49 pm

Jason Lewis has been ranting about this story on his show. It got picked up by Drudge – but also by Rush Limbaugh apparently.

J Dub (US) says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:51 pm

Karl,

If there is a Religious Right there must be an Atheist Left…wonder why we don’t hear that thrown around? Hmmmm?

Just a buzzword to keep morons like you giving to the DNC-DFL…oooohhh watch out here comes the *Religious Right* spooky!! Please send $50 from your earned income credit tax refund soon or they will outlaw infanticide…err I mean abortion!

Crow T. Robot says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:51 pm

This is precisely the kind of “say anything” BS that the Bush administration has used from the beginning. I can imagine a bunch of whackjob right-wingers standing around the water cooler at the local megachurch, telling each other these sorts of things. “Yah sure, I betcha they’re gonna PARTITION IRAQ!” “Oh, yah, and when they do, half of it is going to become a FREE TERRORIST ZONE!” “Oh, sure, that sounds right. I betcha there’s ALREADY AN AGREEMENT!”
Unfortunately, Michelle Bachmann isn’t smart enough to know not to say that stuff out loud in public.

J Dub (US) says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 6:55 pm

Crow,

Can you please site the “say anything” BS you refer to or are you just parroting your 23yr old poly-sci grad assistant?

Dave from NYC says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm

You lefties sure have a problem with religion. It’s almost as if you have a competitive religion….oh that’s right you do—the environment, global warming, animal rights, gay marriage, abortion rights.

Your religion blows.

Dora says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 7:21 pm

Well Eva, based on the influx it’s quite clear the caliber of people that follow them.

Dora the Ex-Whorer says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 7:32 pm

Dora,

Yes, there does seem to be an plethora of well-thought, logical arguments which seem to go against the grain of the left-wing commentators here. The influx from Drudge and Rush is raising the IQ here by multiples.

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 7:55 pm

Back to the headline of her spin doctoring failure effort.

“I am sorry if my words have been misconstrued.”

That’s a total crock.

Her words were quoted verbatim, and in full context were even more egregious.

SeaShark says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:15 pm

Michele Bachmann is an idiot.

She is not “misunderstood” or “misconstrued” or “taken out of context” or “misquoted” or “the victim of a vast left-wing conspiracy” or “feeling all utzy” today.

Michele Bachmann is a stone stupid idiot every second of every minute of every hour of every day. How stupid is she? Jessica Simpson is Marie Curie compared to Bachmann, who has firmly established herself as the most intellectually impaired member of Congress and an embarrassment to her district, her state and her species.

Michele Bachmann is an idiot.

czoe says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:16 pm

As a member of the 6th district of Minnesota, living in Delano, I was appalled that we might have Bachmann as our Representative. Our District is an unusually shaped district, consisting of areas from Stillwater, all the way to the eastern edge of Minnesota, then looping over the northern edge of the main metro area, and then taking a big portion of the western, highly conservative outer metro commuter/small town regions.

Anyone but Bachmann, I prayed as the campaign loomed, and I still think that Patty Wetterling would have been a thoughful and compassionate Representative. We watched the two of them go past in the “gigantic” Delano 4th of July Parade during campaign season. Patty got cheers from the area I was near, Michele got a few jeers. Seems we attract alot of people from other districts for our parade.

I cried when the election results were announced. After watching the antics of Bachmann, hiding behind bushes taking photos of a GLBT parade (not even in her district), the Mac Hammond church fiasco, (anyone for taxing “for profit” churches?) I was embarrassed that we had elected this pearl strewn, tiara wearing, Minnetonka Lake area fundraiser queen (she chose to have parties with Bushes as guests to raise the BIG bucks outside of her less wealthy district). I apologise to the rest of you in this country who didn’t have the choice to exclude her from our House of Representatives, but assure you that we will do the best we can to limit her to two years.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:17 pm

The noise to signal ratio here is quite high today.

There’s a lot of angry guys from out of state who don’t know what they’re talking about, who aren’t familiar with Bachmann’s record, the documented lies and the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories she’s peddled to the public. People who know Bachmann’s record know that this incident is only the latest of many. She’s kind of nuts and she tells lies about important issues; you can see that on YouTube, hear it in the audio recordings of her public appearances, etc. It’s a matter of record.

Still, the angry noise strategy is effective, as it was for Nazis who used to show up at meetings to shout down the speaker. People who want to learn the truth get tired of the angry noise very quickly, and they go home.

That still works, unfortunately. But the bright spot is: the local media here in Minnesota are finally calling her out on one of her nuttier statements; if they’d interviewed her about previous nutty statements she made, she couldn’t even have been re-elected to the state legislature.

Best of luck to you Bachmann defenders; she will keep you very busy from now on.

al-Anon says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm

The good ol’ classic dodge: “I am sorry IF my words have been misconstrued”. Bah. The only person misconstruing anything here is Bachmann herself, in an lame attempt to run away from what she earlier said about there being an agreed-upon plan. You bet there’s a plan, but it’s straight from Stillwaterstan, not Iran.

Brian in ATL says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 pm

Czoe,

No need to apologize for Bachman, just please commit suicide since you cry about a single election result for a 435 member body.

Oh, and as far as Bachman raising money outside her District, where do you think 99% of non-MN Union and “entertainment” money goes – to the Republican.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:26 pm

I have just been informed that Rush was discussing this incident on his show today and apparently thought that Bachmann’s claim was so loopy that he kept referring to her as a “Democrat” one of these “wifty Minnesota Democrats.”

BWAHAHAHA!

My source also informs me that El Rushbo then got the news–no, that’s a conservative Republican who came up with that nutty story, Rush.

DCT says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:33 pm

Bill,

Thanks for dropping the N-bomb. I was starting to wonder why none of you leftist had used it yet.

I wonder whom the Nazi’s used as historical analogy? Oh, that’s right they used the Jews and their “treachery” at Versaille. So, in reality, calling something Nazi-like is in itself Nazi-like.

Libs are fun.

Lou Dobbs says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:39 pm

Bill,

“Angry Noise”. Pretty much describes the left.

I don’t see too many on the right throwing pies at leftist speakers to shut them up, or stunting debate by yelling racist, fascist, homophobe, (pick-your-slur) anytime the debate isn’t going their way. Nor do I see any conservatives whining about their patriotism being questioned (like Pelosi) when ding-bats in Congress call Bush a liar who sent us to war for oil.

“Angry Noise” thy name is the left.

wavemaker says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:45 pm

Oh my God, she’s one of us Republicans.

Just when I thought things couldn’t get any worse.

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 8:59 pm

Eric – Fred Frommer has gotten the word out even to Wilmar:

http://www.wctrib.com/ap/index.cfm?page=view&id=D8NFMP480

With that, it would be a total shame if D.J. Tice and you did not assure front page coverage of this key foreign policy news from a key state political figure close to the President and to our Colornel in Congress – It should grow legs.

Some are saying Coleman may know something.

A Man says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:04 pm

Wow, I’m used to anyone of the following making ridiculous statements or acting oddly, but not a Republican:

Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
John Dingel
Chucky Schumer
Al Gore
Michael Moore
Robert KKK Byrd
John “Kerry will heal all” Edwards
Al “Coke-Miester” Franken
Harry “land deal” Reid
John “slow bleed” Murtha
John “the jokester” Kerry
Dick “Marine Nazis” Durbin
Al Sharpton
Jesse “pay-to-play” Jackson
Dennis Kucinich
Ralph Nader

Just off the top of my head.

Jean Humphries says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:11 pm

Al Franken, you are too late! We have an elected comedian in Congress.

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:12 pm

Eric – The sidebar – 1.74 million newspaper articles??????

100yr x 365days/yr x 24hr/day = 876,000 hr.

You do two an hour and never sleep?

And don’t show your age?

Huh?

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:13 pm

the star tribune is nothing but a bunch of liberal hack whack jobs. to pull a non-story out of a crazy lesbians hate website and display it as news is despicable but alas just another example of their biased partisanship.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:16 pm

Iran wanting to take over Iraq is not a secret plan to anyone. NON-STORY.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:19 pm

You’ve got to love this one…
Democrats plan to handcuff American troops in Iraq to “only fight Al-Qaeda”…
The same Al-Qaeda they say is not in Iraq!

Just two months ago… On November 28, 2006 Speaker Pelosi said this about Al Qaeda in Iraq:

House Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) told reporters on Wednesday that she feels it is “sad” that President Bush continues to blame Iraqi insurgent violence on al Qaeda.

“My thoughts on the president’s representations are well-known,” Pelosi said. “The 9/11 Commission dismissed that notion a long time ago and I feel sad that the president is resorting to it again.”
In August… Democratic Leader Howard Dean said this about Al Qaeda in Iraq that was posted on the democratic party website:

“The occupation in Iraq is costing American lives and hampering our ability to fight the real global war on terror against al Qaeda and the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan, not to mention dealing with the threats posed by Iran and North Korea.”
So, to recap… The reason we’re leaving Iraq, according to democrats from their own website, is to fight the real War on Terror and Al Qaeda… But, its OK to fight Al Qaeda in Iraq as long as you are sure that they are Al Qaeda while we move our troops out of Iraq to fight Al Qaeda.
Got that?

czoe says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:20 pm

ATF, that you encourage a person to commit suicide because they have emotions is telling. Your opinions have no weight for anyone that CAN feel.

Ray says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:34 pm

Michelle, Give us abreak and resign. You have no business in the U.S. Senate. How did you get elected?

Been There says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:35 pm

Officer Truthsquad…I can tell by your demenor that A) you have NEVER served in the armed forces and that you B) DO NOT have anyone in your family in harms way. Typical couch potato warmonger. As long as someone else fights the righteous fight for your ideals, its OK. What a hypocritical POS!

jack says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:45 pm

as for Hunter……….you will lose with al of your holier that tho “allah”
what a joke…….
you don’t have a prayer, so go kill yourself before we do ….”in the name of allah”.you will still be dead then anyway…………..

Raul Duke says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:48 pm

To all the people who don’t have a clue about Minnesota politics, this freak is not a US senator, she’s a representative, therefore the State did not elect her, nor did they elect Keith Ellison (your favorite punching bag).
And Officer Truthsquad is nothing more than a cowardly butterball living in his mothers basement in a terrible smalltown in greater Minnesota or North Dakota.

charlieq says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:48 pm

I’d like to know why Eric Black should have to follow up on this lunacy. Now that we have two bloggers on the Big Q, why not let D.J. Tice probe Rep. Bachmann? Then there’s no chance it would be construed as an attack, and it would sure be good for Mr. Tice, as well.

Been There says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:51 pm

Amen Raul Duke!

Raul Duke says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:58 pm

Conservatives these days don’t know what less government means, the Bill of Rights would never have passed if it were proposed today, that would be some “liberal” policies.

Lisa says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 10:09 pm

Does “misconstrued” mean I was pulling stuff out of my, um, hat? Seriously – a Freshman member of a minority party of a not so important state has knowledge of secret plans? Did God tell her about them and no one else?

Raul Duke says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 10:16 pm

The best part is all the right wingers defending Bachman from her own comment, trying to make aliberal conspiracy where there is none. Poor rich white people, they really have had a tough time of it. :(

6th district Jim says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 10:33 pm

Yes, we’d hate to have congresspeople misstate their beliefs:
All the great 2006 anti-war victors now watching the troop surge….
Tim Walz, Ellison–where are you?
eric black–let’s review their old interviews on the war. Seems like we’re surging, not in retreat.
Ok for minimum wage surge, except when it’s in Pelosi’s district.
Don’t forget Wetterdingbat’s: I wont run in 6th district–wait, now I will.
Eric Black–in depth stories on that one? Seemed like a flipflop there.
Of course, let’s not tap terrorist phone calls–all Star and Sickle readers hate that–no, unless the Martins are tapping Speaker Gingrich in 1997 about his ethics charges, then it’s fine. gingrich is kind of like a terrorist. All Republicans are! That’s why America hasnt been attacked since 2001, We’re sleeper cells.
Eric black is the new age journalist–100% partisan moron. Meanwhile, the Strib’s market value plummets while the urban dorks (Comrades Nick/Doog) wonder why.
We are laughing at you.
MB gets 60+% votes in 2008–bank on it!

Raul Duke says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 10:48 pm

Yes, tough guy, you are so right. If only we had such non flip floppers like Norm Coleman! they really stand by their beliefs! No flip flopping there you small town meth head! You’ll never elect Gingring cause he’s been divorced or Guilanni cause he’s an aduleterer. Actually the strib’s market value has been increasing, thanks to half witted online bloggerd like yourself, 100% self defeating partisan moron!!!

Been There says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 pm

Hey 6th district jim, the military is looking for a few good men. It doesn’t matter if you are a felon or if you have f*cked your mother. They are in dire need of anyone because they can’t get the quality people for their, “Army Of One”. Then, after 2 years in Iraq, come back and tell us how it is. Maybe your perspective will have changed by then.

6th district Jim says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:16 pm

Raul Duke is delusional moron. Read Comrade Nick’s column about sale of Strib. Is value soaring? We are laughing at YOU. Take your Stelazine. It will help you.
Liberal free speech:
I can be as rude as I like, but dont criticize me because that’s not fair.
boo hoo.
Been There:
too bad;already been to Iraq; Nice f bomb, but that is what I expect from Sickle types.
MB wins with 60+% in 2008.
You in or out? Or you on Stelazine too?

6th district Jim says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:21 pm

Alert to Eric Black:
Raul and Been There:
these are your core fans
Hint: need to find new career

War Hater says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:24 pm

Another good example of “NEO_CONS having their head’s in a rather dark place that smells real bad.
What America needs right now is an Article 5 convention!

Taxpayer says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:36 pm

Michelle Bachmann coming up with a crazy story that only born-again bigots would believe hardly passes the “man-bites-dog” test. We already know about her association with corrupt holy-roller Mac Hammond. We already know she is a homophobic bigot. We already know that she stalks the President hoping for kisses. We already know that her voting base consists of slack-jawed Klansmen and paranoid tax cheats.

The only thing that could actually be news about Michelle Bachmann would be her coming up with something intelligent to say.

Been There says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:37 pm

Gee jim, sorry to hear about your stelazine addiction. Maybe with intense counseling, your dependence on mind altering drugs can be conquered. We will all pray for your speedy recovery.

Sharon says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm

My District – the 6th – deserves better representation than our current nutcase. I have read the St. Cloud Times interview, and am seriously concerned about the mental stability of Rep. Bachmann. We have kids that are killed daily in Iraq, and a deteriorating situation there. This discussion should be based upon the current reality. Where are Rep. Bachmann’s children and foster children based in this war? Some of us are dying inside as our kids die in this war. This is not theoretical… it’s real people.

AND FOR WHAT?

FitterDon says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:04 am

Just what little bit I’ve seen of this woman she must be as dumb as a post. I see a future for her as a Republican presidential candidate. Was the Democrat she ran against retarded?

Eva Young says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:25 am

I’d second that. It would be interesting to see Tice follow up with Bachmann on this one.

Sharon says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:35 am

Yep…

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:00 am

My goodness there were certainly a lot of angry people here today.

Let me say again the noise-to-signal ratio on the Big Question was quite high today. The people of Minnesota pride themselves on being “Minnesota nice”–considerate of others, almost to a fault. I can only assume that many of our visitors here today were from out of state.

Normally there is much less name-calling on this blog than we’ve seen today–some, especially when someone writes in drunk, but not this much.

Eric Black takes pains to discourage rudeness on this blog. It was boilerplate policy in the Big Question’s mission statement. The new mission statement is similar:
“We ask commenters to be civil and substantive and, if possible, good humored.”

What could be clearer than that? And Black and Tice add a caveat:
“We reserve the right to delete comments that disregard this request.”

Well, either Black or Tice is obviously asleep at the wheel! It is very hard to identify pertinent and valuable viewpoints when one is forced to scroll through dozens of angry insults to reach same.

Of course, we must expect tempers to flare when half the people involved in the discussion are devoted to defending a lunatic in public office.

Jimmy Johnson says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:30 am

“Nut” it is. AMEN. How do these people get elected? How did she get past the state central committee? Or the District Committee. Don’t these people check out who they nominate?

I just know how we Democrats do it in southern Oregon and even the Republicans out here wouldn’t go with her. Come to think of it, though, this reactionary district where I live did sent a “flat-earther” Republican state rep. to the capital who would probably get along with her just fine…

Tom Julian says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:44 am

The people that voted for Michelle Bachman should be very ashamed. What a quack. How embarrassing that she represents Minnesota. I know grade school children with more common sense. We can only hope that the GOP tells her to shut her mouth for the next 4 years. How about a R-E-C-A-L-L.

Lushishen says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:26 am

Bachmann – our Taliban!

blackbeagle says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:27 am

How can a person like her win an election? What the hell does she know what really is going on in Iraq? I thought she showed her true character when she pretty ‘mugged’ Bush for a photo op. Now she open her hole and says something she can’t back up. My goodness Minnesotans, what the hell did you do?

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:06 am

test

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:07 am

Jimmy Johnson–
Let’s see. How did she get past the state central and district committees.
It’s complicated. Michele crashed the local GOP in the small Minnesota town of Stillwater without too much trouble.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:08 am

She ran for the local Board of Ed and lost. But she used the campaign to get exposure; the local evangelical radio stations puffed her during the campaign and got her name out to local conservative Christians. That enabled her to leap-frog over the local Republican–Bachmann and her evangelical supporters crashed the party and took the nomination away from him (he was a GOP Viet Nam vet who’d served many terms in the state legislature.) The regular GOP tried to stop her but couldn’t and they finally gave in–probably out of fear of a backlash from the evangelical voters and media who were promoting her candidacy.

Dennis says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:11 am

I can’t believe she was elected. This is one wierd person!

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:16 am

there’s more, but the blog won’t let me post it, for whatever reason.

Andy H says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:23 am

If anyone in congress should understand the importance of supporting funding for mental illness, treatment, research etc, it’s our gal in Washington, Michelle (mad bomber) Bachmann. You go girl.

Scott P says:

February 24th, 2007 at 5:17 am

Next up, she’s going to shave her head and get a tattoo.

Jennifer says:

February 24th, 2007 at 5:40 am

Minnesota’s Katherine Harris is fun to watch. We should encourage her. She can entertain us while the real work is being done by the grown-ups.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 6:20 am

Bill Prendergast says:

“My goodness there were certainly a lot of angry people here today.”

No Bill. There are a lot of liberals from places like your very own anti-Christian Dump Bachmann blog and employees of the Star Tribune ganging up on her. Most of these comments are rude and stupid, showing the lack of intelligence on the left.

It amazes me how liberals can complain about her when they themselves voted in Keith Hakim Ellison, who is actively involved with CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) which has a long history of supporting Islamic terror groups.

Michele Bachmann and John Kline by far the best Representatives in Washington Minnesota has.

jboze says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:13 am

Hey daretosayit,the real lack of intelligence is repeatedly displayed by those in your party who send people like Bachman and war mongers like Kline and Bush to Washington to lie and manipulate the people to do the neocons bidding. Bachman is just doing the same crap the White House did by sending out lies to justify invading Iraq. Same old same old. You guys will never learn, and I am amazed at the cynicism you people have for the American people. Disgusting

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:40 am

jbozo,

You liberals are sure on the attack!

The truth is they go bananas when a woman or member of a minority group dares to be conservative. When they are both, the left really flips out. Look at Condi Rice for example. While she is an amazing and brilliant woman, she is despised by liberals.

DJ says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:00 am

dare2 – - Secretary Rice is not despised by liberals. She is not RESPECTED by liberals! NO one (with a brain) respects a lap dog – - why do you think Klobuchar won so handily? Kennedy and Coleman are freakin’ Toy Poodles!!! With painted toenails, and cute little ribbons in their well coifed hair!!!

As to Bachmann being re-elected: how many folks are kicking themselves that they voted for Bush not once, but TWICE, for God’s sake!! How gullible ARE these people?

But they’ll be the first on the road with a yellow magnetic ribbon on their Ram 3500 pickup trucks – - “Support our Troops in IRAN”!!

It’s a comin’ folks….

batsnd says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:20 am

Seems we’ve have a congress person whom is going to act like a whitehouse stooge. What was said is irresponsible and politically motivated to support a broken policy in Iraq. I think she is kissing the wrong presidential cheek.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:21 am

DJ,

I’m glad to see that liberals are finally starting to catch on that Iran is run by a lunatic and is very dangerous. Do you now see why the liberal plan for surrender in Iraq is an extremely stupid idea?

DJ Gives BJ says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:47 am

DJ,

Maybe you can explain why Secretary Rice is a lapdog – is it because she’s black? You certainly don’t expect the Secretary of State, who serves at the President’s pleasure, to take contradictory policy views public do you moron?

You seem to have a problem with Ram 3500′s with yellow ribbons. Were you turned down and beaten at a truck stop by a driver of one these when you made a pass?

As for me, count me in, Iran’s been waging war on the US since 1979, it’s time to take care of that “thorn”. Or, I could be a Democrat and wait until they have nukes and then there are no options for us to stop them from rampaging all of the M.E.

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:50 am

What else would you expect from this nutcase.

Just before the election she actually denied that the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, to which she belongs, believes that the papacy is the antichrist. WELS not only believes that nonsense, it is part of their doctrinal statement and can be found at http://www.wels.org.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:56 am

In DJ’s world:

Republican agreeing with fellow Republican and disagreeing with pinko Democrats = lapdog.

Democrat agreeing with fellow Democrat = patriotic American.

Hey jerkoff, I’m tired of every time someone happens to work with or agree with the President libs call them lapdogs. The only way not to be called a lapdog by these mental midgets is to agree with the Democrat, although this doesn’t for some reason make you Pelosi’s lapdog.

You’re good at name calling, please go back to teaching at the local jr high where that crap works.

Steven Rothberg, CollegeRecruiter.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:26 am

I think that we’re missing the obvious source for her information. Doesn’t she claim to have conversations with Jesus?

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:28 am

I am a little worried.

Worried that I am the only one around who feels that Michele Bachmann owes us a local or national press conference.

When you take as strong a pro-war position as she has, as a voting member of Congress, it seems incumbent that when you base positions upon such partition understandings that a fuller explanation, open to press rejoinder, is the only proper way to repair the extreme damage she has done to her own credibility, and to her party’s administration – State Department and commander in chief.

Open the press conference with a full vetting of sources and bases for claims of reliability; and then open it to questions from the attending media representatives.

Anything short of that makes the woman look only like some town fool, and if she wants to dispel that notion, hold the press conference.

Kasper says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:35 am

Dare2

I wondered when you would appear here…Secretary Rice is much more intelligent and refined than COUNTREEEE Bachmann. Secretary Rice knows when and what to say something intelligent. Representative Ellison’s silence is alot better than Bachmann’s big mouth. Her problem is that she doesn’t know when to stop talking…she talks TOO much!
I feel sorry for you Dare2…you are being misrepresented by incompetence and you don’t even know it!

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:35 am

That Bachmann would make such ridiculous and unsubstantiated statements should be a concern of every Minnesotan.

Bachmann had to have been fed this nonsense by someone; she isn’t bright enough to make something like up herself. Do we see Rove’s handiwork here?

Marge says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:47 am

I would like to know one thing. How in the world could the people in the St.Paul area have elected this dimwit to office. Were you so hyped up to put another republican in office you threw away your honor and voted for her. Shame. Not only did you do your party dis-service you shamed the whole state of Minnesota.

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:50 am

Dare2sayit – simply dares to say it.

I see validity to his point of tying together the Bachmann and Kline positions in Congress. After all, it was Col. Kline’s lead staffer that help Bachmann set up her own DC staff at the start of her term in office.

I expect that Bachmann, more a follower than a leader, is getting her information from Col. Kline and staff.

It would help us all to consider Dare2′s ideas, that the two are a tight entry having two votes between them.

And when each votes to continue and even escalate involvement, not just with war dead but in this age of body armor the wounded counts our troops have experience; and that vote appears premised on beliefs that Iran has already cut a partition deal with unnamed others; then each should hold a press conference.

Or in the best of possible worlds, they should schedule a joint press conference, in the nation’s capital because of the importance of all war related issues.

They can vet their thoughts and information and explain the ideological ties between them so we can better understand the political process and how our representatives are representing us as best they can.

I am fully willing to maintain an open mind on all of this – if there will be that joint press conference, and sooner is better than later.

Please post a comment if you feel this is not an excellent idea.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:56 am

Kasper says:

“Representative Ellison’s silence is alot better than Bachmann’s big mouth”

Br. Keith Hakim “Smokey” Ellison is one of the biggest loudmouths in Congress. His insistance on getting sworn in on the Koran and changing hundreds of years of tradition is a good example of this. The joke was on him though. In Jeffersons Bible from 1736 or so, the introduction describes the book as a translation from Arabic to English to allow readers to understand the dangers of Islam.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 10:39 am

There you go again DTSI, you know that the actual swearing in doesn’t use a Bible or anything else. Yet you repeat the same rw rhetoric. Go figure! Jefferson did write his own version of the Bible but it is not about the dangers of Islam. And if you’re talking about his Koran there is no introduction in it, as usual you are confused.

From Lizz Winstead says:

February 24th, 2007 at 10:40 am

Poor Michele Bachmann.

It seems our eager cub congressgirl gave an interview using info from her “Hello Kitty Kookoo Congressional Notebook Full of Cool Secret Stuff Only She Knows.”

Yes chockful of Bachmanniacal insights, Michele made this “Not even Cheney is this f*****g nuts” statement about Iran’s plans for Iraq.

Michele Honey, write this on your hand so you can reference it during interviews from now on:

Iran-Shia

Western Iraq- Sunni

Michele, if only you had brought a map of Iraq with you on your trip to crazy town, maybe you would have seen that:

A. A big part of western Iraq is a fun little area called “The Sunni Triangle”

I’m certainly no scholar in Islamic relations but I may have read somewhere about some disagreements the Sunni are having with the Shia, which leads me to believe the Sunni wouldn’t be that cool with giving up Anbar for a Shia Killing Club.

And Michele hon, ya kinda overlooked this part:

B. Given that Syria (70% Sunni) is Iraq’s neighbor to the west, it doesn’t seem they would be that psyched about a Shia terrorist training camp on their border either.

And Michele, here’s where the map REALLY woulda come in handy for ya in that interview:

C: Let’s say you were Iran. And Michele, I am NOT saying you are Iran, you have a much sunnier disposition and way better outfits. But, if you were Iran and had worked out some deal to take part of Iraq to start up a big terrorist training expo, wouldn’t you take THE PART OF THE COUNTRY THAT BORDERS YOURS!!!

Oh Michele, you could have saved yourself all the backpedaling and clarifying if you had quit your daydreaming in Congress and stopped doodling hearts and G.W.’s all over your Iran homework.

Congress isn’t just one big party, you have to learn stuff too.

These darn freshman….

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 10:49 am

Dora,

Ellison used a Koran, everyone else has used either the Bible or nothing at all in preparation to take office.

The Koran he used did have writing in the beginning of it explaining how it was a translation from Arabic to English to expose the dangers of Islam.

Don’t feel bad Dora, I just learned about this a few days ago myself.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:01 am

No DTSI, the Koran itself doesn’t say that. Read something beyond your rw websites and you’ll realize that the translator wrote an entirely separate book about the translation. Doesn’t mean Jefferson agreed with the translator. If you knew anything about Jefferson you’d understand that. I know this is asking alot but do some research on Jefferson and about why he wrote his own Bible.

Nope, you are confusing the swearing in with the photo op afterwards. There is no book used during the actual swearing in, that was made clear in numerous stories at the time of the rw hysteria. And the Torah has also been used for the photo op.

Mike Golden says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:03 am

This is the first and last time that I will be looking at this blog. The fact that you have the right to call someone an idiot on a ridiculous site like this is a direct result of having people like Michelle Bachman in office. Do us a favor and take a good hard look at what the liberal policies (foreign and domestic) are doing to the “land of the free and home of the brave” that our military men and women fight and die to protect. Save your spite and commentary – the sane and productive part of the world is tired of hearing it. The “news” that spawned this whole waste of time has been in front of your noses for years – you’ve chosen to ignore it. Your uninformed opinions are absolute tripe. Please do some research before forming your next opinion… but in reality we all know that’s not what this is all about.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=2688501

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:06 am

Lizz, I don’t think a map would have helped her. If her sense of geography is anything like many Americans who can’t name the states on a US map I don’t think she’ll be able to tell the difference. Just like I don’t think she understands the Sunni-Shia difference any better than most of the Bush administration. That’s why so much of the rw propaganda machine has been pushing such ridiculous claims about Iran, they don’t have a clue.

jonerik says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:10 am

I am glad to hear that Eric Black is still going to interview Bachmann on her statements. We need to pay very close attention to Bachmann’s words and where she gets those ideas about “plans.” Bachmann’s dementia mirrors the dementia which is at large and running this country in the White House. This “plan” sounds just right for the Bush administration which does not know anything about cultural and religious strife between Shiia and Sunni.

aleks says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:12 am

The only intentions not hard to ascertain are Bachmann’s towards Laura’s husband.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:18 am

Right Mike. Let’s update that Nov 2006 link a bit.

Scant evidence found of Iran-Iraq arms link. U.S. warnings of advanced weaponry crossing the border are overstated, critics say.

Just like all the other Iraq war hype that’s later dialed back.

Oh and Mike, unless you’ve been asleep you know that conservatives have been driving policies (foreign and domestic) since 2000. They’ve done a heckuva job all right.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:30 am

why, why, why, is it instantly deleting my posts? And not letting me post the backups?

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:31 am

Wow,

Liberals are all over this liberal blog like stink on sh*t!

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:32 am

Bill,

Welcome to the club!

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:34 am

Okay, try again. I need to tell this to people who have just joined us over the last day or so:

You are shocked that any elected official could be so irresponsible or kooky that they would say something like that in public.

We here in her district, the ones who have been recording her remarks for years, are not shocked. This is actually *typical.* She lies, about important stuff.

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:35 am

No need to respond to Mike Golden, is there. He seems set in his opinions, and leaving them before keeping his promise.

Those who have followed the career of Michele Bachmann from her Edwatch days should not be at all surprised at the phenomenon of Michele Bachmann not letting facts get in the way of good old fashioned enjoyable paranoiac rant.

I have not seen her traces that long, but I have read into the past and the pattern is clear.

She could care less about truth – only seeming to care about what impact her hasty words may have in advancing her career.

Hence this time, big mistake, kid. You had it in reverse when you tromped the gas and popped the clutch.

She is offensive because of her grandstanding and self-promotion. She is exceptionally dangerous, because she is so stupid and has a vote in Congress.

Not that she’s the first that way.

What’s Danny Quayle doing these days?

Or Forrest Gump [aka Mark Kennedy]?

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:38 am

(cont’d)
We have a whole bunch of statements like this from her, on the record, on video, recorded from the radio–just as kooky, just as ridiculous, just as false. Bachmann told voters that America’s gays are trying to get our children. She told voters that the Republican Congress had signed laws that created a new federal governance structure to replace free enterprise with a centrally planned economy. And it goes on, and on, and still goes on.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:42 am

Thank you Bill and Eric from Dump Bachmann for your unbiased opinions.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:42 am

(cont’d)
It goes on and on and on, for the last six years.

Why has she gotten away with it? Well, because the biggest papers in the state, and the biggest broadcast news outlets in the state–let her get away with it.

Bachmann is shocked right now, I guarantee. She’s wondering: “Jeez, they never reported any of the crazy s–t I said before–why, all of the sudden, is Eric Black of the Star Tribune reporting this?” And she’s right to be shocked–the papers and broadcast news could have stopped her cold, years ago–simply by reporting her nuttier claims (which were “news”, since for the past six years she’s been a state legislator.)

Eric Zaetsch says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:45 am

Bill P – What we see, is a nation that takes notice when a local electorate and a local press took a hike – dereliction of duty is less, the more people there are watching.

But you are right to note that history states a story this time also. Leopards do not change spots.

It is frustrating, however. Who besides D2 voted for this freak?

As Pastor Mac Hammond said, “Pray. Pray for Michele.”

He meant to get her elected. I mean to get her cured. Doesn’t hubby Marcus’ clinic treat this kind of delusional disorder? Probably not, given that they pray and fast together for days on end whenever God makes a career choice for her. In her hero’s words, the Gip himself, she’s some kind of “Loony Tune.”

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:45 am

(cont’d)

So that’s another reason she got into Congress. The local mainstream media simply refused to report her crazy statements to the public–she could pass as a mainstream conservative fighting for family values.

Now why do conservatives in Minnesota continue to support such a person, knowing what they know about her? (that she’s a nut, a bigot, a theocrat?)

Jeff says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:49 am

Micky Bachman looks eerily like our girl Kat Harris from Florida. She also had a penchant for making up things. In the last election she told reporters she would finance her senate campaign, first with an inheritance she didn’t get, then by selling property she didn’t own. When reporters uncovered the fallacy of the first claim, she told the second lie and then refused to talk about it anymore. She became such a loon that neither the President nor the Governor (W’s Bro) would be seen with her. I wounder how long it will be before Micky Bachman gets the same treatment.

I long to be back in God’s country of Minnesota.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:53 am

(cont’d)
Well, because after the last election she’s one of the only elected conservatives left in the state, dummies.

The local conservative talk radio hosts can’t abandon her–she’s one of the few people in Congress voting the party line, these days. “Being electable” forgives all sorts of sins, if you’re a conservative losing your grip on the country. If you’re electable and you vote the conservative line on taxes–it doesn’t matter that you’re also a bigot, a theocrat, and a nut.

In fact, if the bigot/theocrat/nut stuff has helped you to carry your district–so much the better, since that’s a dependable and loyal “base.” (Michele is kind of “cultic” figure to some of her supporters.)

And if the media is giving you a pass for saying all those things, and allowing a bigot/theocrat/nut like you to get elected–you’re the golden girl with conservatives, so long as you continue to vote the “right” way on taxes and the war. If you’re in office and you vote the conservative talk radio line, you could show up to Congress wearing a strait jacket and a beanie with a propellor on it and conservatives would still cheer you.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 11:54 am

Jeff,

Liberals are making our “Welfare State” less and less like God’s Country every day. You better hurry back while you can still recognize it.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

(cont’d)
Let’s bear in mind that conservatives across America are *reeling* right now. They’ve had every possible political advantage since Ronald Reagan got in to the White House: a steadily growing constituency, their own political media to get their message out on a daily basis, a huge fund-raising advantage, a party leadership that ran as reformers but rejected the notion that they were bound by any kind of ethical code.

Despite all those advantages, which should have guaranteed steady growth of conservatism for decades to come–they’re on the canvas, flat on their back after the last election. The war and their loyalty to Bush–the same things that got Michele Bachmann elected in the conservative 6th district–killed the Republican party, nationally.

And now it turns out that one of the few new conservative faces in D.C. and one of the most loyal Bush supporters–is a kook who makes stuff up.

But of course they’re going to rally to her. Where else can they go? What does it matter if there’s an irresponsible nut representing the 6th district in Congress, so long as she votes the conservative line?

Justin C. Adams says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

Because she’s absolutely reliable to follow the leadership and doesn’t mind being impolite.

DJ says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

Tell it like it is Bill P. – - it’s about time that EVERYONE in MN and the good ol’ U.S. of A. realizes how truly goofy Bachmann is. And out-of-staters thought Jesse Ventura was goofy….

As to how “St. Paul” elected this woman. Bachmann represents the Sixth District in Minnesota. Stretching like an arch over the Twin Cities from Washington County thru Stearns/Anoka and Wright Counties. For a map go to:
http://www.subethanet.net/~sixthdfl/

Many of us Dems refer to it as “The Bible Belt”, as there are a boatload of mega churches in these communities, “on fire for the Lord”. Bachmann plays directly into their hands.

Also, I am a firm believer that the morons who listen to KQRS and AM1500, and were all agog over Bachmann’s physical beauty are partially to blame for this nut-burger getting elected. The hours/days/weeks they raved about Bachmann’s legs, looks, etc.

Yep – - that’s what I use for criteria when I determine whom I am going to vote for.

That also explains why I think Tim Walz is so danged hot!!

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

(cont’d)
So let me wind this up by spelling it out for you conservatives who are still checking in:

The fact
-that a personal as irresponsible and nuts as Bachmann
-could rise so high in your party in such a short period of time
-and be lauded and promoted
-by conservative powerbrokers in politics and media
-as an heroic, principled conservative
-is indicative of
-the absolute contempt that conservative powerbrokers in politics and media have for:
-America
-democracy, and
-your intelligence, integrity, and common sense.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

Mrs. Bachman reminds of Don Quixote. She’s read too many conservative political/religious romances. Fighting the windmills of gay marriage and whatever other ghosts that reside in her mind. Michelle Bachman really is the spitting female image of Don Quixote. Chasing things that don’t exist or are different than what she thinks they are. Read the book, Michelle Bachman is Don Quixote. We can only hope that at some point she’ll convert to authentic Christianity and no longer chase the vain dreams that have taken hold in her head.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

I’m serious if anyone, conservative or liberal, wants to understand Michelle Bachman, or anyone else for that matter, they need to read Don Quixote. It really does explain a lot.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

Disagree, Mortimer.

Don Quixote, though insane, was honorable.

Kasper says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:43 pm

Dare2,

The only reason you focus on Representative Ellison is because you know that Bachmann IS misrepresenting the truth.
However, you bring up a question I would like to present. Why do our Congressmen use the Bible to be sworn it? Wouldn’t it be better to be sworn in on the Constitution…that which they are sworn to uphold and protect?

Thomans Jefferson had the Koran translated from Arabic to English…he was a smart man no doubt…he thought out of the box. Tell me…would you have objected if Jefferson had translated the Bible from English to Arabic?

Brian G says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

Since this blog went national it didn’t make much sence to comment. I ope the wackos crawl back under their rocks soon.
It is clear that the left is starved for any conservative to make a comment that may be “out of step” with reality.
Of course Michelle’s words were taken out of context. But what does that matter? Any chance the left gets to Viciously attack her and conservatives in general, brings them out like maggots feasting on rotting meat.
Never mind what that Kerry says things the he never really means. Or Murtha ot how about the biggest Congressional A-hole of all time Ted K? D the M Kusinich, Howard Dean, U.S. Waxman.
The list is endless. Gaffs, disparaging troops, name calling.
Reading the comments here tha past couple of days you begin to wonder how long it will be before America implodes.

And then you get a recap of all of this from an intellegent idiot that obviously didn’t read half of the comments posted. This is exactly the opposite of reality.
Bill P says..”The absolute contempt that conservative powerbrokers in politics and media have for:
-America
-democracy, and
-your intelligence, integrity, and common sense. ”
Conservatives are holding this country together. It is hard to imagine what a secular hell-hole this country could become.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

Brian G–whatever you may think of me and other liberals–let’s dispose of your nonsense arguments forever, shall we?

I mean the silly claim that “her remarks were taken out of context.”

Here they are from the transcription. I left her “uhs” and “umms” in there, because they show that she was trying to remember the details of this “plan” she now disowns:

“Iran is the troublemaker trying to tip over apple carts all over Baghdad right now because they want America to pull out. And you know why? It’s because they’ve already decided, that they’re going to territory, they’re- they’re going to partition Iraq and half of Iraq, the western northern portion of Iraq is going to be called, the United, uh, uh, the, the uh, -oh, I’m sorry, I can’t remember the actual name of it now, but it’s going to be called, um, uh, the, the, uh, uh the Iraq State of Islam, something like that. And I-I’m sorry, I-I don’t have the official name, but it is meant to be the training ground for the terrorists. There’s already an agreement made; they’re going to get half of Iraq and that is going to be a –a terrorist free,-a terrorist safe haven zone.”

She wasn’t taken out of context, Brian. The Strib accurately reported what she said, in the context that she said it. That’s her main problem–her words *were* reported in context.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

Don Quixote the knight-errant was not an honorable person, his deeds were not honorable. He was insane and made the people around him go insane. He was a fool and was paraded around as a Fool. It is never honorable to willingly go insane. Pre and Post Don Quixote the knight errant he was a perfectly honorable person. Michelle Bachman pre-conservative warrior was probably a good, honorable person. In her current conservative warrior state she is a Fool and is paraded around as a Fool. She has made others go insane. She needs to stop this charade and return to being a normal, honorable person and not the Fool that everyone laughs at. I believe that there is a wonderful person somewhere buried under Michelle Bachman’s conservative knight-errant facade. She just needs to return to sanity and to her friends, family and community. Stop chasing windmills Michelle!!

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

Sorry Brian G–that first sentence came out wrong–I did not mean to imply that all of your arguments are nonsense. I was only talking about your “she was taken out of context” argument.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

Libs sure do slander this woman based on religion. Conservatives don’t bash your religion: abortion on demand, saving spotted owls, global warming charades, state confiscation of productive money makers to hand over to non-productive groups, etc.

Your religion blows. Penderg-ass get a life.

Brian G says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

So Bill, what do you think of what John Kerry has said in the past? His Jokes” were also in the press word-for-word and he also said he didn’t mean it the way it came out. Did you give him the benefit of the doubt?
I am aware that she was quoted word-for-word, but she has said that is not what she meant.
How about this word-for-word? Or did Dan mean something different?… “A mind is a terrible thing to waste, you take the United Negro college fund model that what a waste it is to lose one’s mind or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.”

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

You really don’t want to start in on people who say ridiculous things now Brian b/c Bush is head and shoulders above all the rest. So what you’re really saying is not that she was taken out of context but that she really didn’t mean what she was saying. So did she just say it for effect or she just didn’t know what she was talking about?

POed Lib says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

A typical Repukeliscum moron. Can’t think, can’t talk, is terminally stupid, and is an idiot.

Why is the Repukeliscum Party today filled with morons?

POed Lib says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

It is clear that the left is starved for any conservative to make a comment that may be “out of step” with reality.

No, actually, we on the left are looking for a conservative that sounds like a normal American.

The Repukeliscum Party today is filled with insane perverts like Bachmann. She fits right in with the rest of you idiots.

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

“…Libs sure do slander this woman based on religion…”

As long as Bachmann wears her religiosity on her sleeve and claims it gives her some special qualification to hold elective office, then her religious beliefs should be questioned.

She belongs to Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod which calls the papacy the antichrist. When that was revealed just before the election, she denied that church teaching.

Thus, she either lied or knows nothing of the doctrine of the church to which she claims membership. And she sees nothing wrong with using the legislative/elective process to impose her bigoted, religious views upon everyone else.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

I’m tired of the Christian bashing I’ve read on this blog. Liberals are constantly going after Michele Bachmann because she is a Christian, but totally overlook the fact that Keith Hakim “Smokey” Ellison is involved with a group which supports Islamic terrorists. Dora will whine again that I’m repeating myself, but I’m getting tired of the repetitious Christian bashing from liberals.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

I have to take issue with the idea that Michelle Bachman represents anything Christian. All she represents is a regression into mob-minded paganism.

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

As long as Bachmann claims her religiosity as a qualification to hold office, then her religious beliefs are fair game and should be discussed.

As I noted on KK’s blog, Bachmann and her ilk are just as dangerous as the Muslim extremists in other countries. Both groups, although using different methods, want to impose their extremist religious views upon everyone else.

And just for the record, Bachmann is a bigoted, homophobic Bible-thumper.

Diga Me Algos says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

dare2sayit.com:

Once again, redirecting the conversation safe non-sequitors will not distract this debate: Bachmann’s religiosity is worthy of investigation for how it apparently informs her decision-making–either thorugh providing a frame of reference, or quite literal as a voice (a “feature” SHE identified while on the campaign trail).

If you want a thorough “investigation” into “Smokey” Ellison’s remarks–an impliedly racist remark that hasn’t gone unrecognzied–or a vent for your purloined Christian values, Katherine Kersten’s blog remains close at hand.

In the meantime, stay on topic and enjoy the show.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

I take issue with the Bible-thumper comment. Her highest authority is the mob, and her job is to provide the mob with sacrifices/categories of people to hate.

Diga Me Algos says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

First sentence independent clause should read “…redirecting the conversation [to] safe non-sequitors…”

Lo siento for any confusion!

DMA

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

Brian G–

I’m not prepared to defend John Kerry or any other politician. I would point out that what got Kerry in trouble is not the same kind of thing that got Bachmann into trouble.

She was claiming knowledge of a plan, an existing agreement, between Iran and some other unnamed power, to partition Iraq and set up a terrorist safe-haven state. That, if true, would be a bombshell–a national security issue for the United States.

And she went to the press with that very specific claim; knowledge of an existing agreement. A very serious thing for a US Representative to do; if it had turned out what she was disclosing was true, “the plan” would have made the cover of Time, Newsweek, the NYT, political journals around the world, and Bachmann would be hailed as the first person to leak “the divide Iraq with Iran plan” to the public.

It may turn out that that is what finally happens–none of us knows how Iraq will look at the end of its civil war; maybe the US will permit a partition of Iraq, with an Iranian sponsored “terrorist safe haven” as a new state. I doubt it; it would be a betrayal of our armed forces and a reversal of five years of Bush administration policy to spend four years fighting and then agree to the creation of a new terrorist state in order to get out–but who knows how it’s going to turn out?

Even if Bachmann had knowledge of such an existing agreement–and she’s now retracted–what kind of elected official takes it upon themselves to disclose that “plan” to the public? How does disclosure of that plan *support our troops*? “Hey boys and girls, what you’re really fighting and dying for over there is the creation of a new terrorist state run by Iran.” How does that make the Bush administration and the Pentagon look, if they were the source for her information?

What I’m saying is: even if she really believed what she was telling the reporter was true, what kind of a screwball legislator would go to the press to disclose a “plan” like that? She’s a huge fan of GWB and his Iraq war policy. Did she really think that “disclosing” the “plan” to the public would *help* the White House war effort? The next logical question, when you hear about the “plan” is–who was a party to this agreement to partition Iraq?

If she’d stuck by her guns and said “it IS true, what I said”–people would be coming at the White House from all sides now, demanding to know what information she was relying on, what the Admin was going to do about this “plan”, who was party to the “plan”, etc. etc.

Once again, she’s rung the “I’m an irresponsible screwball” bell.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

JonR,

I can’t imagine anything the Christians would do which would come close to the terror caused by Muslim radicals. I think the difference is that Muslims kill in the name of religion (the 76 virgin promise doesn’t help either).

I’m hopeful that moderate Muslims will put a stop to radical Islam, but I don’t see that happening. In fact, with 40% of Muslims in England supporting strict Islamic Sharia law to rule the country, this show little hope of progress.

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

It should be noted that it is not the Democrats that insist upon religious litmus tests for elected officials. It is the Republicans that do so, even though the Federal Constitution explicitly forbids such a practice.

Thus, as long a candidate (Republican, Democrat or other party) claims his or her religiosity as a qualification to hold office, then that candidate’s religious beliefs can and should be discussed. And, DTSI, you have no basis for complaint because it is not “Christian bashing.”

By the way, the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, which I earlier noted is Bachmann’s church, also teaches that the prayers of anyone who does not “accept” Jesus Christ” are “vain babblings to false gods.” (A direct quote from the WELS website.)

I wonder what the Jewish voters in the Sixth District think of that part of Bachmann’s religious beliefs?

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

OH my God JonR you need to be locked up. What is it that Christians want to impose? IS it the following list, which large majorities of American’s support:

Abortion Restrictions
No Man-on-Man marriage
Reducing government confiscation of earnings
Fighting terrorism

If that’s imposing, where do I sign up to be imposed upon.

Numbnuts.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:36 pm

JonR,

Why do athiests always think they are authorities on Christianity?

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

Brian in ATL,

You are correct Sir!

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

And again, JonR, it’s not that you and your atheist ilk are discussing her religious beliefs, IT’S THAT YOU’RE MOCKING HER RELIGIOUS BELIEFS – AND BY EXTENSION THOSE OF ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE.

Get it toolbag? The atheist left is trying to impose it’s views on normal Americans, but it won’t succeed.

Kasper says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

Dare2,

You keep bringing up the issue of religion and christianity. You say Muslims radicals kill in the name of religion. What do you think groups like the Klu Klux Klan do? They too kill in the name of religion. Like I have said before…when Bachmann does something that is clearly wrong…you try and redirect the issue to something else…you don’t want to deal with the issue of Bachmann’s misrepresented statements. But when then when you have nothing else…I guess that is your M.O!

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

Kasper,

You have it all wrong. People need to be aware of the dangers of the growing Islamofacist danger, but liberals don’t like to hear that and resort to bashing Christians to try to neutralize the message.

Since when have Christians used power tools to drill the brains out of innocent people?

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

“…And again, JonR, it’s not that you and your atheist ilk are discussing her religious beliefs, IT’S THAT YOU’RE MOCKING HER RELIGIOUS BELIEFS – AND BY EXTENSION THOSE OF ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE…”

First of all, as I have repeatedly stated and you choose to ignore, Bachmann’s religious beliefs wouldn’t even be discussed except that she, herself, makes those religious beliefs a political issue and litmus test. You cannot say she can make her religious beliefs a political issue and then deride us who question those beliefs from a political standpoint.

“Atheist?”
I can trace Christianity in my family to 1580! Don’t you dare question my religiosity.

Brian, let’s take your “list” one at a time.

The USSC has ruled that abortion restrictions violate the doctor-patient relationship and are a violation of the Right to Privacy.

Leaving religion out of the discussion, name one Constitutional impediment to same-sex marriage. There is that one annoying statement, “All men are created equal.” Does that only apply to certain groups of Americans?

As for taxes, you better get used to more at some point. How else do you think we are going to pay for Bush’s illegal war?

As for the suggestion that Democrats do not want to oppose terrorism, that is just another of Rove’s Swift Boat lies.

Finally, Brian, let’s consider some other “ideals” that the majority of Americans once supported: (1) slavery in America, (2) denying women and blacks their right to vote, (3) opposing Truman’s integration of the Armed Forces, (4) opposing inter-racial marriage, and (5) supporting segregated schools.

And, DTSI, if you think I’m fabricating the WELS doctrine to which Bachmann apparently subscribes, just check the WELS website.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:28 pm

JonR Says:

“Leaving religion out of the discussion, name one Constitutional impediment to same-sex marriage. There is that one annoying statement, “All men are created equal.” Does that only apply to certain groups of Americans?”

This gets down to the real reason why liberals are flocking to this blog the last couple of days. Michele Bachmann doesn’t want gay marriage, so liberals will do whatever they can to demonize her. It’s sad too see that liberals value gay marriage more than our national security.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

JonR,

Glad you can trace Christianity to the 1580′s. Looks like the 10-min genealogy search you did panned out well. Too bad I don’t care about your ancestors, it’s YOUR atheist beliefs that I care about and your imposition of them and parallel derision of religion that I care about. You are not “discussing” her religious beliefs, your are deriding them. Your not the brightest are you?

Yes, the USSC found a hidden privacy right in the constitution. Even liberal law experts find the decision incredibly weakly based. Bet you didn’t know that did you tough guy…

Funny list you have, I’ll have fun with you for a sec:

1) Slavery in America – Republican party expressly formed to gain its abolition.

2) Denying women and blacks the right o vote – a specialty of Democrat governors in the solidly Democratic south from 1860-1972

3, 4, 5) See above DEMOCRATS

You see JonR, Democrats have a trademark patent on being on the wrong side of these issues. HOW DARE YOU broach them to illustrate historical majorities, which were populist DEMOCRAT positions.

As for Democrats wanting to oppose terrorism, that is a farce. They want to treat it as a criminal matter, as stated many times by Democrat leaders.

And, not to let the “Bush’s illegal war” slip by, two points:

1) You lover-boy Clinton waged a non-UN sanctioned war in Yugoslavia.

2) It WASN’T illegal. I’ll let you in on a little secret that you might need some time to absorb – Iraq wasn’t complying with cease-fire resolutions from the first Gulf War – that, my dear little boy, is cause for war by itself. So it wasn’t illegal, quit lying. although in atheism lying isn’t punishable by a higher power, it does make you look, well, foolish.

Next.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

Sorry I can’t generate the requisite hatred to get on the bandwagon of killing innocent children, women and men in faraway countries who have done me no harm.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:46 pm

JonR,

You are so childish.

“Name one constitutional impediment to gay marriage”.

Name one that limits polygamy
Name one that limits campaign finance
Name one that limits underage consumption
Name one that limits marriage to only other humans
Name one that limits what I can build on my property
Name one that limits what I can put into my body in the way of drugs (should be popular with your ilk)

You see little guy, these, like man-on-man marriage limits, are called STATUTES, and as long as they don’t usurp restrictions on government power set forth in the constitution – their okey-dokey.

Go get your learn on before *attempting* to sound smart.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

Mortimer,

Yeah, let’s not ever go to war. Let’s sing around the campfire of Love. Hit the bong again hippy.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

Morty,

I agree. The Muslim terrorists who are blowing up innocent women and children in order to claim their virgins in Allah land disgust me.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:04 pm

Great website dare2sayit.com

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

Yeah you guys go sit around your fire of mob-love at your lynch parties and hold hands and sing kum by yah as the dead children lie in the background. I don’t particularly like your kind of pagan sacrificial togetherness. It’s really an insult to Christianity to completely deny the commandment not to kill. You and your don’t kill the unborn babies, but it’s ok to arbitrarily kill babies in faraway countries.
You and the “terrorists” are obsessed with each other and you both want everyone else to have the same obsession. Your both nihilists.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

Morty,

Killing in self-defense is not prohibited in the bible.

If you are accusing the US Army of killing non-combatants, good for you! You should rejoin your kindred spirits and go spit on returning soldiers like you used to.

Get educated – the US military spends more money on devising systems to AVOID collateral damage then any other military in human history.

What should we have done about 9/11? I’m sure a few of your precious innocents were killed in the taking out of the Taliban. Let’s not stop there – what about fighting Hitler – I’m sure some young, innocent Germans were killed. Price of war my friend. It sucks, but the first step to adulthood is admitting that it is sometimes necessary work.

I’m obsessed with terrorists – I don’t want them to kill innocents to impose Sharia world-wide. But don’t think they aren’t obsessed with you – as much as you want to pretend your on the sidelines. If you aren’t praying to Mecca six times a day your head is in danger of being permanently loosened from its already loose grip.

Next.

Kasper says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

Dare2,

I don’t have it all wrong…I don’t deny that there are radicals out there ready to destroy our democracy. But let me ask you this…how different is drilling a hole in someone’s brain from placing dynamite in a chruch killing young girls attending Sunday school?

Kasper says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

FYI,

Here is an link to an interesting article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070224/ap_on_re_us/gay_rights

We already know how Bachmann is going to vote on these issues.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

Yeah, I agree, I don’t think a large enough portion of the Islamic hates us enough. Maybe if we keep bombing, and killing their children, more of them, in turn, will bomb us. Then more of us will hate them and then we can all sing around the campfire our glorious songs of hate. But at least we’ll all be together with you and your hate, patting each other on the back and getting all emotional like you guys like to do. That’s what you want to have everybody join you and your hate.

I’d much rather sit in church around the broken body and blood of Jesus trying to remember what happens when we all hate than sit around your campfire consuming other victims.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:37 pm

Pardon me for interrupting, but a few posts back, one of you called one of the others a “toolbag.”

He said, “wise up, toolbag” or words to that effect.

I’m sorry, but I think that’s going a little too far.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

Morty,

They hate us for being us, not because of anything we do or don’t do. We probably caused a lot of ill will amongst Germans when we fought in self-defense against them. Maybe you and other leftist should take less into account what others *think* of us, and more into actually destroying those that hate us. They probably hate you more then me, based on your effeminate world view.

Take your meds and let the adults handle it. You’ll still get your check on the 1st and the 15th.

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:47 pm

Brian,
Quote just one comment that I have posted which proves that I am an atheist and explain why you believe that. As for Bachmann, I don’t care if she worships a tree stump. But as long as she insists her religiosity is a qualification to hold office, then it is our right to question those beliefs in a politcal context. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot criticize Congressman Ellison for his beliefs and then state we cannot criticize Bachmann. You conservatives first said the JFK was “too Catholic” and then criticized Senator Kerry for not being a “good” Catholic. Bachmann brought this on herself by ignoring that article of the Federal Constitution which declares that no religious test shall be required of a government official.

It is true that many of the Democrats south of the Mason-Dixon Line supported slavery, along with other repulsive beliefs. But you ignored the rest of that history. When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in the early 1960s, most of the conservative, southern Democrats (called Dixiecrats in those days) bolted to the GOP. And that forms the core of the GOP’s racist support in the Deep South. (Haven’t you heard of the “Southern strategy?”)

“…You see little guy, these, like man-on-man marriage limits, are called STATUTES, and as long as they don’t usurp restrictions on government power set forth in the constitution – their okey-dokey….”

This comment is comparing apples and oranges. We are not talking about the usurpation of government power. We are talking about denying a group of Americans their constitutional rights. In 1967 (Loving v Virginia), the USSC declared marriage to be a basic civil right. Are you suggesting that a basic civil right is only available to certain Americans?

And your implication that same-sex marriage might lead to polygamy or bestiality is disgusting.

Mortimer Lowsidedowski says:

February 24th, 2007 at 4:48 pm

Yeah Christianity is so effeminate. Satan is so manly. Come on guys let’s go crucify Christ and show how “manly” we are. Afterwards we can all go hug and cry and get all emotional in each others arms, and finally be “real men”.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

Well Brian in ATL, since the Iraqi’s didn’t attack us our invasion wasn’t in self defense so you can’t use the Bible to justify the war in Iraq. Perhaps that’s why the Pope spoke out against the war.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pm

JonR,

Why is it disgusting that I suggest that by your argument that there is nothing in the constitution that prevent man-on-man marriage that that would lead to the not so brilliant conclusion that there is nothing that in the constitution that says bestiality and polygamy are not “okay”. YOU can’t have it both ways.

Your logic is flawed – the Supreme Court held that marriage was a civil right. Marriage is defined by statute. Ergo, this civil right is defined as between a man and a woman. So, no, I’M not suggesting that a “civil right” be only granted to some Americans. No American is being denied the right to marry. If you are a man you can marry any woman. If you are a woman you can marry any man you like. Not only is this a recognition of their civil rights, it’s a recognition that even you, Jon, have hope, as long as there are enough women to go around.

Back to Bachman, you’re not reading hard enough. You say she ran on religion, if you want to question her devotion, that’s one thing, but you and other lefties are mocking religion in general.

And as far as the Southern Strategy goes, show me how opposing forced busing, affirmative action, and the like instituted by guilt ridden liberals is racist? It ain’t racist just ’cause liberals call it racist. Why haven’t we heard more about the Democrat “Ghetto Strategy” of throwing money and generally pandering at/to minorities to buy votes? Which is more racist, treating them like children who need the great empathy of white liberals, or treating minorities as full equals?

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 5:32 pm

Dora,

You make it too easy.

1) Iraq attacked Kuwait
2) Kuwait was key to national security (our defense loosely defined – I suppose you were okay with the strategy that led to the WTC falling?)
3) We defended Kuwait (our nat. interest)
4) Cease-fire
5) Iraq violated ceasefire and funded/sheltered terrorists
6) We continued our defense of nat interest by enforcing the cease-fire agreeement.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

Morty,

I get it – your a pacifist religious type. Good for you. The rest of us live in the real world where turn the other cheek is great until the other guy can blow you, your children and all your neighbors cheeks to dust.

Would you have fought Germany while they were exterminating Jews? YES OR NO. Probably not, you’re probably a “conscientious objector” ie coward like Cassius Clay.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 5:37 pm

You should have said too simple b/c it’s simple minded. You must be very good at that six degress of separation game.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

Dora,

It’s not simple enough – that’s why libs like you can’t draw a straight line from 9/11 to the need to topple state-sponsors of terrorism. Let’s wait till they hit NYC with a nuke. Now that your ilk through the liberal media has convinced America that it is a fiasco (3200 dead in 4 years), state sponsors will have nothing to fear for some time. So we can now go back to what is really simple-minded – no enforcement of cease-fires, no punishment for terror sponsoring states, no nothing…until the next 9/11 shuts your treasonous crowd up for a brief time to avoid being boiled in oil by normal Americans.

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 6:17 pm

“…No American is being denied the right to marry….”

Wrong! If Mary Cheney cannot marry her same-sex partner, she IS being denied the right to marry and her basic civil right. And the only reason for that is religious bigotry.

“…Marriage is defined by statute. Ergo, this civil right is defined as between a man and a woman…”

The only reason for this definition is because of religious bigotry. At least three Protestant denominations (United Church of Christ, Unitarian, and Metropolican Community Churches) and the Reform Jewish denomination all hold that same-sex marriage is doctrinally and theologically valid. Why should Federal law or the law of any state give precedence to one religious establishment over another religious establishment?

“…Back to Bachman, you’re not reading hard enough. You say she ran on religion, if you want to question her devotion, that’s one thing, but you and other lefties are mocking religion in general…”

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. I am not mocking religion “in general.” I am questioning Bachmann’s religious beliefs in a political context because she uses her religious beliefs in a political context.

And you still have not quoted any statement of mine that demonstrates that I am an atheist.

“…Would you have fought Germany while they were exterminating Jews?…”

Would you have fought in Germany because Hitler was butchering the European gay community?

“…Which is more racist, treating them like children who need the great empathy of white liberals, or treating minorities as full equals? …”

The civil rights laws were enacted to ensure that minorities were and are treated as “full equals.”

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

JonR,

You’re beyond reason. But I will point out some funny parts of your post. You say that man-woman marriage laws are due to what you deem “religious bigotry”. Then you cite three religious organizations to back your invalid point that man-on-man marriage is okay. Funny argument there. When they don’t agree with deviant policy, it’s religious bigotry, when they agree with it, well it’s just validation. How about those three representing bigotry against non-deviant believers?

As for why the law is what it is, we make laws all the time to keep order in society. I’ve listed them prior, but a short list would be underage drinking, polygamy, zoning ordinances, etc. Whatever route they spring from, they are valid for protecting good public order, as is having a definition of marriage between a man-and-woman. Changing this in order to accommodate the deviant “lifestyle choices” of a few is not in the best interest of society.

And yes, I would have fought Germany for executing gays. I don’t think that execution of deviants is called for, and they deserve all the rights of any American, including the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. But I don’t want them marrying their poodle or their same-sex “partner”. If the American people choose to elect those that agree, the statutes won’t change, and there is no violation of any law anywhere. Period.

Oh, and you know dang well I wasn’t referring to civil rights laws. Funny libs avoid conversation about items their so proud of ie affirmative action, quotas, etc. That’s what I was talking about. Your Democrat boys club in the South fought the civil rights laws (check the Senate voting for the 64 civil rights act), then when pandering for minority votes became vogue for your grand party, you decided to treat them like child-like victims unable to support themselves. YOUR party is trapped in racism. MY party recognizes the value of the human soul without regard to their skin.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

Brian in ATL if you want to topple state sponsors of terrorism then don’t forget Saudi Arabia. What has convinced the majority of Americans is the mess in Iraq which belongs to Bush and even the rw propaganda machine wasn’t enough to counter that reality.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 24th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

Been There says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:35 pm

Officer Truthsquad…I can tell by your demenor that A) you have NEVER served in the armed forces and that you B) DO NOT have anyone in your family in harms way. Typical couch potato warmonger. As long as someone else fights the righteous fight for your ideals, its OK. What a hypocritical POS!
Been There says:

February 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 pm

Hey 6th district jim, the military is looking for a few good men. It doesn’t matter if you are a felon or if you have f*cked your mother. They are in dire need of anyone because they can’t get the quality people for their, “Army Of One”. Then, after 2 years in Iraq, come back and tell us how it is. Maybe your perspective will have changed by then.

What a s**thead you are. You accuse me of not serving my country and minutes later, call the troops felons and morons. For your information, I served 10 years, served in Somalia and Kuwait, and do not care for you liberal idiots mis-stating the quality of todays troops. A majority of todays forces are middle class and did well in school, so stop playing the lie game to get minority votes.

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

“…Changing this in order to accommodate the deviant “lifestyle choices” of a few is not in the best interest of society…”

Are you suggesting that being gay is a “choice?” Are you suggesting that being gay is “deviant?” Who decides what is “in the best interest of society?” You and your fellow Bible-thumpers?

“…But I don’t want them marrying their poodle or their same-sex “partner”…”

To mention marrying an animal in the sentence with marrying someone of the same sex is repugnant and only demonstrates your ignorance.

“…Your Democrat boys club in the South fought the civil rights laws…”

Yep, and when that “Democrat boys club” lost, they bolted to the Gestapo-on-Parade party and now form the core of the GOP’s racist support in the Deep South! Why didn’t you mention that fact?

And you STILL HAVE NOT quoted one of my postings that demonstrates I am an atheist! Why not? Can’t you find one? ROFLMAO

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

Funny how the republicans are always called racist and homophobes but does’nt the democrat party boast the only two KKK members among their ranks?

I am still looking for the outage of the South Dakota Dem Senator sex scandal to be as big as the Foley thing too. When will he get the front page attention Foley got?

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

Still wondering what the big leap is from man-on-man marriage to other forms of deviant behavior requiring state sanctioning. Come to think of it those illustrious NAMBLA people probably are waiting for the man-on-man marriage to pass. Yes, I’m linking deviant behaviors. Who gets to decide that NAMBLA and bestiality groups are deviant? You, gestapo man???

Aren’t anti-bestiality laws just another form of “religious bigotry”. Hmmm? If not why not??? ROFLMAO

JonR says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:52 pm

“…Still wondering what the big leap is from man-on-man marriage to other forms of deviant behavior requiring state sanctioning…”

That you consider being gay to be deviant only illustrates your own ignorance and bigotry.

Now…go iron your bedsheet and get to your KKK rally! And don’t forget your placard “God hates fags.”

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

Brian in ATL,

Thanks for the compliment on the dare2sayit.com website!

I’ve brought up a couple of points which liberals aren’t disputing:

1) Illegal aliens murder more Americans than the Muslim terrorists in Iraq.

2) US Congressman Keith Hakim Ellison is heavily involved with CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) which has a long history of supporting Muslim terror groups and would like to see Islamic Sharia law inposed on America.

I’m signing off for the night now, but it’s very easy to prove may claims if you google the topics.

Good night liberals!

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

Deviant: markedly different from an accepted norm

Is gay now the norm?

Sorry, it’s deviant. No two ways about it.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

Liberal name calling is so fun!!

Bigot
Racist
Homophobe

You got ‘em all in one. Great debate style JonR. Now go bite a pillow, your lover need you.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

JonR,

Again, your love of Man-on-Man marriage is the main reason for this whole anti-Bachmann circus today.

Justin C. Adams says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pm

That is a state senator, not a US senator.

I’m curious about those who are opposed to legalized gay marriage and/or it’s equvilent.

Is it the word “Marriage” you’re concerned about? Because if so, I would council the gay community to content itself with all of their practical equality while accepting the term civil union.

But I cannot understand why those of you who are also against this milder noun ‘union’ would want to prevent homosexual partners from hospital visitations. How you feel it is right to have them excluded from healthcare plans. Most of all, I can’t understand why you wouldn’t want them to pay a license fee like the rest of us.

Well, most people. I personally ran up to Onterio with my wife to avoid paying our license fee here in Minnesota because of then State Sen. Bachmann.

As for legalized beastiality, that is an absurd claim. As for constitutional justification for life partners of all sexual orientations, well, the closest the constition gets is the word gender. But gender is actually pretty close, or at least it could be for the purposes of legal argument.

Judges are still pretty old now though. It needs a few years before the popular concensus opinion that gays are you know, equal, breaks through to the venerable judiciary. Also, a liberal executive to apoint them would not hurt in drawing the court into line with the majority view on homosexuality.

But then, the supreme court has ruled in the past that property ownership is a just requirement for sufferage, that slavery is just, and that spending unlimited amounts of money to influence policy, as long as done through a charity, is a perfectly protected form of speech.

The court grows up, but it always lags. It looks to lag a while longer now. But wait for it.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:04 pm

That’s right DTSI, you should learn to google and you’d find your claims are bogus which has been pointed out to you many times.

Brian in ATL says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:06 pm

Justin Adams,

Bad news: the majority view on man-on-man marriage is against it.

Why don’t we change hospital visitation rules instead of changing a millenniums-old institution. Seems, ya know, ….easier.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

Justin,

The main reason I’m against gay marriage is that public schools will be forced to teach that homosexual marriage is healthy and equilavent to normal marriage. We are already seeing this with manditory text books like “Heather has two Mommies” and “My Dad, the Big Liberal Homo”

It’s best when children are raised by a Father AND Mother. This is non-existant in parts of North Minneapolis and look at the problems there!

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:19 pm

Since when does not thinking two men or two women should be able to marry say you “hate” them. I do not hate them, but I still do not want to see legalized gay marriage. And no, I am not a religous person.

Is linking the bestiality claim to this that far off. Not really, when you remember that just in the last twenty years, gay marriage would not have been even considered either. Who is to say that in the year 2027, if marrying a 10 yr old will be on the judicial docket or not. That is if the illegal immigrants or the Islamic haven’t taken oover by then. Some of the above is sarcasm, you can guess as to which is which.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

Even Dora doesn’t dispute my findings. If she could, we would hear about it.

By the way Dora, has anyone ever found a “real” picture of Mpls. Mayor R.T. Rybaks wife? Liberals claim she exists, but I think he’s living in the closet.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

Dare2, where can I get a copy of “My Dad, the Big Liberal Homo”, and who is the author?

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:24 pm

Are you blind? I’ve disputed your “findings” since you first regurgitated them.

Your abnormal fixation with homosexuality is rampant again tonight DTSI.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

I was just seeing if you guys were awake. That isn’t a real textbook. I was trying to think of the names of others just as rediculous but couldn’t remember the titles.

Just watch.. I’m about to get reamed by Dora!

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

I knew it wasn’t real, but I did find it very funny. Have you seen the book, “My White Wife”. It is about a white guy who has a white wife, and he is not ashamed of it at all. It is very controversial.

Dora says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

You’re never right DTSI.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 24th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

That does sound controversial. Next thing you know they will be demanding “White History Month”.

Jeff says:

February 24th, 2007 at 9:06 pm

I’ve always loved the Anti-Gay bigot defense. “I’m not a bigot. I don’t hate them.” You just get off treating Gay and Lesbian citizens unfairly. Persecute them at will. Discriminating against them with pride. Refer to them in the most degrading terms and pathologies out of ignorance and superiority. Vote against their rights to participate in this “free” society equally with a majority block and brag about it. And seek refuge behind some ugly “religious” beliefs. And you think the Homo’s are evil and deviant!? I’d love to be there when Jesus has his Come To Jesus meeting with you. What do you think your punishment will be?

Lynda says:

February 24th, 2007 at 10:36 pm

“Brian in ATL says:

I get it – your a pacifist religious type. Good for you. The rest of us live in the real world where turn the other cheek is great until the other guy can blow you, your children and all your neighbors cheeks to dust.”

No one ever said following Christ’s teachings was easy.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 24th, 2007 at 10:47 pm

Jeff wins the first one out of the gate award. You think that by throwing the word bigot or racist at someone and they will wilt and agree. Sorry to disappoint. I do not hate people who have sex with animals either, moreso, I feel sorry for their problem. And I am not not saying gay people are sick, but it is a misguided way of life. I live my life my way and I do not expect others to follow it the same, nor do I feel the need to approve of their lifestyle either.

Bill Prendergast says:

February 25th, 2007 at 12:34 am

Please, citizens! Citizens!

I remind you all of the Big Question blog’s mission statement, printed above:

“We ask commenters to be civil and substantive and, if possible, good humored.”

I was just getting over one of guys calling another guy a “toolbag,” and now all this “homo” stuff.

Calling someone a “toolbag” is the thin edge of the wedge. You start out with “toolbags” and end up with “homos.” It’s disgraceful. Shape up.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 2:53 am

Defeat The Right In Three Minutes
Conceptual Guerilla’s picture

The url for this article is: http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/6

Have you got three minutes. Because that’s all you need to learn how to defeat the Republican Right. Just read through this handy guide and you’ll have everything you need to successfully debunk right-wing propaganda.

It’s really that simple. First, you have to beat their ideology, which really isn’t that difficult. At bottom, conservatives believe in a social hierarchy of “haves” and “have nots” that I call “corporate feudalism”. They have taken this corrosive social vision and dressed it up with a “respectable” sounding ideology. That ideology is pure hogwash, and you can prove it.

But you have to do more than defeat the ideology. You have to defeat the “drum beat”. You have to defeat the “propaganda machine”, that brainwashes people with their slogans and catch-phrases. You’ve heard those slogans.”Less government”, “personal responsibility” and lots of flag waving. They are “shorthand” for an entire worldview, and the right has been pounding their slogans out into the public domain for over forty years.

So you need a really good slogan – a “counter-slogan” really, to “deprogram” the brainwashed. You need a “magic bullet” that quickly and efficiently destroys the effectiveness of their “drum beat”. You need your own “drum beat” that sums up the right’s position. Only your “drum beat” exposes the ugly reality of right-wing philosophy – the reality their slogans are meant to hide. Our slogan contains the governing concept that explains the entire right-wing agenda. That’s why it works. You can see it in every policy, and virtually all of Republican rhetoric. And it’s so easy to remember, and captures the essence of the Republican Right so well, we can pin it on them like a “scarlet letter”.

Is there really a catch phrase – a “magic bullet” – that sums up the Republican Right in such a nice easy-to-grasp package. You better believe it, and it’s downright elegant in its simplicity.

You want to know what that “magic bullet” is, don’t you. Read on. You’ve still got two minutes.

Right-Wing Ideology in a Nutshell

When you cut right through it, right-wing ideology is just “dime-store economics” – intended to dress their ideology up and make it look respectable. You don’t really need to know much about economics to understand it. They certainly don’t. It all gets down to two simple words.

“Cheap labor”. That’s their whole philosophy in a nutshell – which gives you a short and pithy “catch phrase” that describes them perfectly. You’ve heard of “big-government liberals”. Well they’re “cheap-labor conservatives”.

“Cheap-labor conservative” is a moniker they will never shake, and never live down. Because it’s exactly what they are. You see, cheap-labor conservatives are defenders of corporate America – whose fortunes depend on labor. The larger the labor supply, the cheaper it is. The more desperately you need a job, the cheaper you’ll work, and the more power those “corporate lords” have over you. If you are a wealthy elite – or a “wannabe” like most dittoheads – your wealth, power and privilege is enhanced by a labor pool, forced to work cheap.

Don’t believe me. Well, let’s apply this principle, and see how many right-wing positions become instantly understandable.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like social spending or our “safety net”. Why? Because when you’re unemployed and desperate, corporations can pay you whatever they feel like – which is inevitably next to nothing. You see, they want you “over a barrel” and in a position to “work cheap or starve”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like the minimum wage, or other improvements in wages and working conditions. Why? These reforms undo all of their efforts to keep you “over a barrel”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives like “free trade”, NAFTA, GATT, etc. Why? Because there is a huge supply of desperately poor people in the third world, who are “over a barrel”, and will work cheap.

* Cheap-labor conservatives oppose a woman’s right to choose. Why? Unwanted children are an economic burden that put poor women “over a barrel”, forcing them to work cheap.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like unions. Why? Because when labor “sticks together”, wages go up. That’s why workers unionize. Seems workers don’t like being “over a barrel”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives constantly bray about “morality”, “virtue”, “respect for authority”, “hard work” and other “values”. Why? So they can blame your being “over a barrel” on your own “immorality”, lack of “values” and “poor choices”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives encourage racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of bigotry. Why? Bigotry among wage earners distracts them, and keeps them from recognizing their common interests as wage earners.

The Cheap-Labor Conservative “Dirty Secret” : They Don’t Really Like Prosperity

Maybe you don’t believe that cheap-labor conservatives like unemployment, poverty and “cheap labor”. Consider these facts:

Unemployment was 23 percent when FDR took office in 1933. It dropped to 2.5 percent by time the next Republican was in the White House in 1953. It climbed back to 6.5 percent by the end of the Eisenhower administration. It dropped to 3.5 percent by the time LBJ left office. It climbed over 5 percent shortly after Nixon took office, and stayed there for 27 years, until Clinton brought it down to 4.5 percent early in his second term.

That same period – especially from the late forties into the early seventies – was the “golden age” of the United States. We sent men to the moon. We built our Interstate Highway system. We ended segregation in the South and established Medicare. In those days, a single wage earner could support an entire family on his wages. I grew up then, and I will tell you that life was good – at least for the many Americans insulated from the tragedy in Vietnam, as I was.

These facts provide a nice background to evaluate cheap-labor conservative claims like “liberals are destroying America.” In fact, cheap-labor conservatives have howled with outrage and indignation against New Deal liberalism from its inception in the 1930′s all the way to the present. You can go to “Free Republic” or Hannity’s forum right now, and find a cheap-labor conservative comparing New Deal Liberalism to “Stalinism”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives opposed virtually all of the New Deal, including every improvement in wages and working conditions.

* Cheap-labor conservatives have a long and sorry history of opposing virtually every advancement in this country’s development going right back to the American revolution.

* Cheap-labor conservatives have hated Social Security and Medicare since their inception.

* Many cheap-labor conservatives are hostile to public education. They think it should be privatized. But why are we surprised. Cheap-labor conservatives opposed universal public education in its early days. School vouchers are just a backdoor method to “resegregate” the public schools.

* Cheap-labor conservatives hate the progressive income tax like the devil hates holy water.

* Cheap-labor conservatives like budget deficits and a huge national debt for two reasons. A bankrupt government has a harder time doing any “social spending” – which cheap-labor conservatives oppose, and . . .

* Wealthy cheap-labor conservatives like say, George H. W. Bush, buy the bonds and then earn tax free interest on the money they lend the government. [Check out Dubya's financial disclosures. The son of a bitch is a big holder of the T-bills that finance the deficit he is helping to expand.] The deficit created by cheap-labor conservatives while they posture as being “fiscally conservative” – may count as the biggest con job in American history.

* “Free Trade”, globalization, NAFTA and especially GATT are intended to create a world-wide “corporate playground” where national governments serve the interests of corporations – which means “cheap labor”.

The ugly truth is that cheap-labor conservatives just don’t like working people. They don’t like “bottom up” prosperity, and the reason for it is very simple. Lords have a harder time kicking them around. Once you understand this about the cheap-labor conservatives, the real motivation for their policies makes perfect sense. Remember, cheap-labor conservatives believe in social hierarchy and privilege, so the only prosperity they want is limited to them. They want to see absolutely nothing that benefits the guy – or more often the woman – who works for an hourly wage.

So there you have it, in one easy-to-remember phrase. See how easy it is to understand these cheap-labor conservatives. The more ignorant and destitute people there are – desperate for any job they can get – the cheaper the cheap-labor conservatives can get them to work.

Try it. Every time you respond to a cheap-labor conservative in letters to the editor, or an online discussion forum, look for the “cheap labor” angle. Trust me, you’ll find it. I can even show you the “cheap labor” angle in things like the “war on drugs”, and the absurd conservative opposition to alternative energy.

Next, make that moniker – cheap-labor conservatives – your “standard reference” to the other side. One of the last revisions I made to this article was to find every reference to “conservatives”, “Republicans”, “right-wingers”, and “righties”, and replace it with “cheap-labor conservatives”. In fact, if you’re a cheap-labor conservative reading this, you should be getting sick of that phrase right about now. Exxxxcellent.

If enough people will “get with the program”, it won’t be long before you can’t look at an editorial page, listen to the radio, turn on the TV, or log onto your favorite message board without seeing the phrase “cheap labor conservatives” – and have plenty of examples to reinforce the message. By election day of 2004, every politically sentient American should understand exactly what a “cheap labor conservative” is, and what he stands for.

Now if you stop right here, you will have enough ammunition to hold your own with any cheap-labor conservative, in any public debate. You have your catch phrase, and you have some of the facts and history to give that phrase meaning.

Now, cheap labor conservatives, what have you got to say for yourselves?

jboze says:

February 25th, 2007 at 5:26 am

Excellent article American Political Philosopher. That is the true essence of the Republican party today.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:29 am

Officer has the Bachmann code speak and double talk down. I never said I thought the Anti-Gay bigots would wilt and agree. In fact, I believe the Anti-Gay agenda well organized, tenacious and not interested in a legitimate conversation. That’s why folks need to start standing up to this persectuion. It’s not going away.

“A misguided way of life… nor do I feel the need to approve of their lifestyle either” judges Officer. The use of “lifestyle” as a pejorative, judging the sexuality of homosexuals as misguided, are these your examples of not hating? Talking about sex with animals in light of homosexuality. Hardly the message of respect, equality and love thy neighbor as thy self.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:38 am

Oh yeah, the Gay pity defense is another favorite. “I feel sorry about their problem”. What problem? Gay folks keep giving you the feedback that YOU are the problem. Aren’t you paying attention? What about your responsibility to be knowledgeable on human sexuality?

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:38 am

I personally dosn’t care what anyone else does, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. The main reason I’m against gay marriage is that if it became forced on society, imagine how the health classes under the watch of the ACLU would have to radically change to teach that homosexual marriage is justas equivalent and healthy as normal marriage.

Kids have enough things to worry about in school and forcing the concept of gay marriage down their throats woould be a horrible idea.

I wish the liberal democrats would stop their push for this.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:51 am

Thanks for the link American Political Philospher. And great article.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:52 am

“Forced on society… radically change to teach that homosexual marriage is justas equivalent and healthy as normal marriage.. forcing the concept of gay marriage down their throats… a horrible idea”.

Webster- bigot (n). A person of strong conviction or prejudice, especially in matters of religion, race, or politics, who is intolerant of those who differ with him.

I rest my case.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:01 am

Jeff, b/c they want to force how they think and what they do on others they think everybody else has the same motivation. That’s their hatred and fear talking which goes hand in hand with the cheap-labor conservative views described above. If you keep others “over a barrel” then you can project all your hate and insecurities on to them which makes you “better” than they are.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:36 am

Dora and jbozo,

What are you talking about. American Liberal Philosopher’s piece is a joke. Illegal immigration is what is bringing the value of labor down, and while Bush is too liberal on the issue, many others like Republicans Tom Tancredo from Colorado and Michele Bachmann from Minnesota are trying to control our borders. Now that the lib’s have taken over, having the fence on the Mexican border which was already approved and would pay for itself in no time won’t happen. Democrats are blocking it’s construction. Thanks liberal democrats!

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:42 am

Dora and Jeff,

There you liberals go again playing the race/bigot card. Apposing gay marriage does NOT make a person a bigot. There are many reasons we should reject gay marriage besides religious ones.

If opposing gay marriage make you a bigot, then the vast majority of Americans are bigots. Your name calling of people you disagree with is very intolerant.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:50 am

Which is it DTSI? You’ve been saying for months that illegal immigrants only come here because of generous welfare benefits.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:58 am

They may oppose gay marriage but they also oppose a constititutional amendment banning it unlike the rabid rw’ers like you, Bachmann, and Tancredo. So you rabid rw’ers are still out of step with the “vast majority of Americans”.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:20 am

Dora,

The working illegal aliens are also costing taxpayers billions of dollars in medical, welfare, and other benefits. Do you need proof that illegals are a severe burden on taxpayers?

Refugees from third world countries are the biggest users of welfare, especially in Minnesota because of our liberal welfare state. Did you know that Minnesota has the fastest growing poverty rate going up 62% from 2000 to 2005 because refugees from places like Somalia are heading here to collect welfare? There is a reason why we are the third most overtaxed state in America.

Liberals are responsible for this mess. I’m all for helping people out, but we can’t import every person from the third world who is having problems to Minnesota to collect welfare. Lets work on helping them out in their own country instead.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:23 am

dare,

I’m not a liberal, I’ve never identified myself as one. Your use of “liberal” as a slur is offensive. I like liberal folks.

Bigotry speaks for itself despite steadfast denials by the bigots themselves. I’m not play a card. Accusing me and others who call out the bigots is a failed attempt to not be held accountable for your words and beliefs. This is personal. This is serious. Rejecting Gay and Lesbian citizens the civil right to marry and pursue their dreams of happiness in this democracy is wrong, it’s unfair, it’s Anti-American. The many reasons, both religious and personal are based on myths, fear and ignorance. I agree, those who oppose gay marriage are bigots. That’s sad. I disagree that it includes the vast majority of Americans. The overwhelming youth of America respect Gay and Lesbian human beings. It’s a non-issue for them. I think you need to reconsider your belief that you are in the majority of ALL Americans. A majority is never an argument for what is right, what is morale.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:32 am

Now you’re just trying to come up for a rationale for your ridiculous contradictory claims. You tried your “proof” once before and you got shot down. Launching into one of your anti-immigration strawmen isn’t going to work.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:42 am

OK Jeff,

Let me get this straight…

It’s anti-American to opposes Man-on-Man marriage?

And yes, liberals ARE causing most of America’s problems.

Dora,

Quit calling me anti-immigration. I’m anti-ILLEGAL immigration. I also don’t like the idea of importing thousands of third world refugees to Minnesota to collect welfare. It’s a huge burden on taxpayers, and I’m also tired of seeing farms and beautiful countryside being destroyed because of the sprawl caused by rapid population growth.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:03 am

dare,

Yes, you got it right.

Your use of “Man-on-Man marriage” is offensive. As is man on dog, Woman-on-Man marriage, Man-on-Woman marriage and Woman-on-Woman marriage. Grow up.

Blaming liberals for causing most of America’s problems is your opinion. I disagree. I think your claim is queer, you know, really silly.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:10 am

Don’t try to duck your beliefs DTSI, your comments lump all immigrants as illegals who only come here to collect welfare. It’s no different than the way you lump all Muslims as terrorists.

It’s anti-American to deny other Americans the rights you enjoy because you don’t agree with them. You can’t even discuss an issue with civility. I suppose you think you’re being clever with your constant invective but it only shows how small-minded you are.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:33 am

Dora,

Wrong again. The fact is illegals are costing taxpayers Billions of dollars and forcing many Hospital Emergency rooms to close by using such things as the “Anchor Baby” loophole. This is when a pregnant illegal comes across the border to have a baby at taxpayers expense on American soil. Because the baby is automatically an American citizen, the family gets to stay and also qualifies for welfare now.

THIS LIBERAL POLICY HAS TO STOP!

Jeff,

Is it also anti-American if someone supports our existing laws with prevent first cousins, brother-sister, husband and multiple wifes, or Man-Dog marriage?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:57 am

Now DTSI, you know we’ve been over that erroneous claim about the ER’s before. Just because you bring it up again doesn’t mean it’s true. You’re just validating exactly what I said. You repeat the same assertions over and over and think that’s what makes them true.

More strawmen DTSI. You better go shovel some snow b/c that would be more productive than the hole you’re digging yourself in here.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 11:59 am

I got up early and already cleared my driveway. Thanks for your concern though.

Dora,

This is from Fox News yesterday:
*********************************
LOS ANGELES — This is part three of a five-part series looking at how illegal immigration affects U.S. border security, the criminal, health care and education systems, as well as the economy. Watch the series this week on FOX News Channel.

Overburdened by the uninsured and overwhelmed by illegal immigration (search), public health care in Los Angeles is on life support.

Sixty percent of the county’s uninsured patients are not U.S. citizens. More than half are here illegally. About 2 million undocumented aliens in Los Angeles County alone are crowding emergency rooms because they can’t afford to see a doctor.

According to the State Association of Hospitals (search), California’s public health system is “on the brink of collapse.” In Los Angeles County, patients can wait four days for a hospital bed and up to two years for gallbladder surgery.
********************************
You will probgably whine that it’s from Fox News which isn’t liberal enough for you, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150750,00.html

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

Dora,

Did you read today’s Star Libune? Liberal democrats lead by Mark Ritchie want to make it so that anyone with a drivers license is automatically registered to vote. How insane…

Isn’t it true that many non-citizens in Minnesota have MN drivers licenses and would be able to vote if this became law?

The truth is that democrats want non-citizens to vote because they overwhelmingly support liberal democrats who will expand the welfare state and push for amnesty for illegals.

Again, liberals are causing most of America’s problems.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

Well, if they’re using (actually misusing) statistics like Rep King from OH then it doesn’t mean it is true. For example, the American Hospital Association does warn about uncompensated care but they don’t say it’s from illegal immigrants. “Uncompensated care is a very serious nationwide problem … Most people believe that is a trend and trending upward as we see more and more employers cutting back on health care coverage and more and more consumers dropping insurance coverage. [emphasis mine] The emergency department becomes often their sole source of care,” said Carmela Coyle, AHA senior vice president for policy.” And in LA County’s own website that Fox cites the figure is for non-citizens but says nothing about how many are illegal. Misrepresentation and baseless assertions are nothing new for Faux News.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

Now DTSI don’t forget this part:

“Ritchie said many safeguards would be in place to block voting by noncitizens and nonresidents, felons still in the corrections system, minors and others not allowed to vote. For example, he noted that because of changes pushed by Gov. Tim Pawlenty, driver’s licenses already denote noncitizen status.

Ritchie also scoffed at critics who suggest that his proposal would greatly benefit DFLers at the voting booth. “There’s nothing about having a driver’s license that’s Democratic or Republican,” he said.”

[emphasis mine] Ironic isn’t it DTSI that a Republican Governor has undercut your argument that noncitizens with drivers licenses could vote.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

Dora,

You will enjoy this:
http://www.saveourstate.org/topics/societalcosts.html

As far as Ritchie goes, I’m glad Pawlenty put that restriction in place. Ritchie would never do it. He is a lifelong partisian liberal activist would shouldn’t be trusted with our voting rules. We already have the most liberal regulations in the country and he wants to make voter fraud even easier to pull off.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

dare,

Implying that there are groups of men wanting to marrying dogs, cousins, and siblings wishing the same is degrading. Prove it, dare. Let’s take a look at your examples. Your obvious attempt to brand homosexuals as deviants by linking such red herrings is dishonest and out of the Bachmann playbook. Putting that crap at the feet of Gay and Lesbian citizens fighting for marriage equality is disingenuous. Again, you don’t want an honest discussion. What motivates your hostility
towards these fellow citizens? You strike me as a dangerous character.

Which hospital ER’s have been forced to close because of the “Anchor Baby” loophole?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

Nope DTSI, not going to one of your hate filled sites. No we don’t have the most liberal voter registration, I’ve given you a link on that before, North Dakota does. Given the fact that citizenship is on drivers licenses you should drop your erroneous claims. But of course you won’t b/c you thrive on erroneous claims.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

Jeff,

About the only thing that really bothers me about homosexuals is when they try to impose gay marriage on society, and my concern with that is how it will negatively impact our kids in public schools. The anti-American ACLU will make damn sure every textbook and class agenda portrays gay marriage as 100% equivalent and healthy as normal marriage.

I brought up other examples such as a polygamy and relatives getting married to show that there needs to be rules when it comes to marriage.

Enjoy this link about ER’s closing due to massive illegal immigration. It’s from Dora’s favorite news source.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48161

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 2:09 pm

Yeah, World Nut Daily. That is the same one that I debunked previously. Madeleine Cosman has a PhD in medieval history and the far out of the mainstream American Association of Physicians and Surgeons who condemn public health services and lobby against immunization (among other things) are quoted all over the anti-immigration websites. It was a great example of how the rw propaganda machine works. Soon Dr. Cosman is quoted as some kind of medical expert (with no medical training) and her article morphed into a study (which was not a study but a compilation of cherry picked data to support her ideology).

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 2:13 pm

dare,

You call it imposing-that’s fair or true. The Constitution guarantees each of us the right to pursue our own happiness and fight for our individual rights. How will it negatively impact kids in public or private schools? Again, can you please stop with the name calling: “anti-American ACLU”. But gay marriage is 100% equivalent and as healthy as non-gay marriage. How is it not? There are rules when it comes to marriage. Denying Gay and Lesbian citizens the right to marry as a rule because you think they are not as equal as you is immoral not to mention selfish.

You did not include specific examples for each of your examples. Why not? Using disgusting comparisons as examples is part of the Ant-Gay Industry strategy. I personally find it tedious and simple minded.

I’m sorry, I don’t understand which hospital ER’s you know of that have been closed due to the “Anchor Baby” loophole. Which hospital’s?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

Once again DTSI demonstrates his acceptance of the myths and fear-mongering about gay marriage just like with interracial marriage back in the 50′s. Civilization was going to end if interracial marriage was accepted. Well it didn’t. And neither will it end if gay people get married.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

dare,

I read your link and the source is worldnetdaily. It says “threatened” hospital closures. You said: “The fact is illegals are costing taxpayers Billions of dollars and forcing many Hospital Emergency rooms to close by using such things as the “Anchor Baby” loophole”.

Do you wish to back track? Did I “misconstrue” something? Let Rep. Bachmann show thee the way.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

Liberals,

I’m not anti-gay, I’m just against gay marriage for the reasons I stated. You can call me all the names you want, but call the majority of Americans the same names as well.

You can’t deny the fact the illegal aliens are hurting our heath care system. The only thing we can argue about is how severe the problem is. I’ve heard from many sources that 70 Emergency Rooms have closed since 1990 because of the illegal alien crisis. Even HCMC is having problems with illegals who do pay their bills, and this hurts everyone.

Here is another link showing how illegal aliens are hurting killing our hospitals.
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000060.html

By the way, the ACLU which was founded by communists in 1920 is as anti-American as they come.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

That should say:

Even HCMC is having problems with illegals who don’t pay their bills, and this hurts everyone.

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 5:13 pm

dare,

Reality check, you are SO Anti-Gay. You’ve repeatedly referred to homosexuals in the most offensive and dehumanizing language. That makes you Anti-Gay. Duh! And yes, you are not alone. That seems to make you feel better and right and justified. That’s odd. I think all your reasons against Gay marriage are based on ignorance, myths and fears. You avoid answering how you’ve been harmed after thousands of Gay marriages in just this Country.

What communists founded the ACLU? I didn’t know that. How does being a communist make them Anti-American? Dare, it sounds like you make this stuff up as you go along.

Why don’t you name the hospitals and the harm???

JonR says:

February 25th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

“…I’m not anti-gay, I’m just against gay marriage for the reasons I stated. You can call me all the names you want, but call the majority of Americans the same names as well…”

First, what’s the harm of students learning the truth about same-sex households rather than the lies, half-truths and innuedoes of the Bible-thumpers? As for that “majority of Americans,” they once opposed inter-racial marriage, but we overcame that piece of bigotry. Using your reasoning, once could…I’m using an example here…not be “anti-Jewish” but want to deny Jews membership in one’s favorite golf club. Your polygamy argument is just another red herring thrown out by Bachmann and her ilk. As for cousins marrying cousins, that has been happening in this country since Colonial Times. As late as the early 1900s, it was not at all unusual for first cousins to marry, and that occurred in nearly every state.

You can dress the argument with sociological, Biblical or Consitutional language all you want, but bigotry is still bigotry. And denying a specific group of Americans their Constitutional rights just because a “majority” of Americans want to do so has been repeatedly struck down by the USSC and the supreme courts of the states.

As for the ACLU, what a dangerous group. They actually believe that the Bill of Rights applies to ALL Americans, not just the chosen few. What radical concept.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 5:30 pm

Jeff,

I at least try to have a life and do other things than get on this liberal blog. If you want the names of hospitals most hurt by the illegal alien invasion, I’m sure you can find them if you try. The point is that illegal aliens are seriously hurting our health care industry and this is indisputable. Use the links I sent you and expand on them if you wish.

Do you also dispute that the ACLU was founded by communists in 1920? Please do a google search on this and I’m sure you will find out the truth.

Again, I’m not anti-gay and infact I’m not totally against civil unions, but I don’t support gay marriage. I’m sorry if I used language you don’t like, but I was only doing it to get my point across, not to offend anyone.

We are all Americans here, and should quit arguing about issues like gay marriage and work together to achieve important objectives like defeating the Muslim fanatics who are trying to kill us.

JonR says:

February 25th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

“…We are all Americans here, and should quit arguing about issues like gay marriage…”

Tell that to Bachmann, the MN Family Council, K Kersten, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, D. James Kennedy, James Dobson, Steve Sviggum, Tim Pawlenty, et. al.

Fine, you’re not “totally against” civil unions? Then let’s do what Europeans have been doing for decades.

Any couple, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, that wants to be “married” under civil law must do so in front of a civil authority. If that couple also wants a religious ceremony, they can do so, but the religious ceremony cannot substitute for the civil ceremony.

All civil “marriages” shall henceforth becalled “civil unions.” This lets same-sex couples “marry” and gets the state government out of a religious argument.

As for the ACLU, I am not familiar with their founding history, but any organization that insists that ALL Americans are equal under the Constitution and that the Bill of Rights applies to ALL Americans can’t be that bad. Rather than focusing on the groups origins, why not focus on what they are striving to accomplish? By the way, didn’t the ACLU represent Rush Limbaugh when his drug addiction/prescription problems were exposed?

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

JonR,

I personally don’t care if gays want to be “unionized” as long as it isn’t marriage, and I, along with most Americans agree with the people you mentioned on this issue.

I’m not surprized that you are unfamiliar with the origins of the ACLU. They do occasionally represent a token issue like a traditional Christian church or Rush Limbaugh, but 99% of the cases they get involved with end up hurting America. The ACLU has a nickname “Enemy of the State”.

JonR says:

February 25th, 2007 at 5:59 pm

“…traditional Christian church…”

What is a “traditional” Christian church?

“…but 99% of the cases they get involved with end up hurting America…”

Please give examples and the source for that “99%.”

Jeff says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:03 pm

dare,

You didn’t say hospital’s most hurt, you said closed, 70 of them. I really dislike it when someone can’t admit they made a mistake. It speaks to your character and credibility.

Dude, I don’t care about the ACLU. You do. I don’t. You look it up if you like. I was trying to follow your perspective but the facts don’t always fit.

I can appreciate that you are open to civil unions.

I agree, I think we should all pull together more as fellow Americans. That’s hard to do when some think others are not normal and equal because of their sexuality. It’s an important issue that needs to be resolved.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:12 pm

DTSI, we’ve been over your bogus claims about how illegals are the cause for all the health care problems before. HCMC like all hospitals are having trouble with uncompensated care. Your extrapolation to illegals as being the cause is a gross overstatement. I’ll repost the quote from Fox News: “Uncompensated care is a very serious nationwide problem … Most people believe that is a trend and trending upward as we see more and more employers cutting back on health care coverage and more and more consumers dropping insurance coverage. The emergency department becomes often their sole source of care,” said Carmela Coyle, AHA senior vice president for policy.” Your other links only repeat the original Cosman claims as I pointed out to you previously. And all that does is reinforce what I pointed out earlier. You keep repeating the same claims and providing the same links even after they’ve been shown to be bogus.

JonR, that ACLU claim is another smear by World Nut Daily. DTSI believes anything they say.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

Jeff,

I’m glad you feel we should pull together as fellow Americans.

And Jeff, 70 Hospital Emergency rooms have been forced to close because of illegal aliens not paying their bills. Why the knit-picking? You are trying to dispute my claim that illegals are severely hurting our health care industry, but anyone who has any knowledge of the issue knows better.

JonR says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

“…And Jeff, 70 Hospital Emergency rooms have been forced to close because of illegal aliens not paying their bills…”

What is the source of this statement and the names of the hospitals?

And now, DTSI, I’ll give you a shocker. Although I consider myself a liberal Democrat, I will say this about immigration: anyone in this country illegally should be deported…period.

As for the “anchor baby” issue, no child born on American soil to an illegal alien mother should be given citizenship at birth.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

Yes DTSI, anybody who has knowledge of the issue knows better and it’s clear you have no knowledge of the issue you only have baseless claims and anti-immigration talking points.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

JonR,

I just gained a lot more respect for you.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

dare,

I see you posted a reply to my original msg on the 1st bachmann thread regarding illegal immigration.

You say bu$h is too ‘liberal’ on that issue.

No he’s not.

HE’S A CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE.

The immigration fiasco in this country is ALL THE FAULT OF CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES LIKE YOUR pRESIDENT AND YOUR PARTY.

They REPRESENT CORPORATISM AND CORPORATISM WILL ALWAYS STRIVE TO CREATE A CHEAP LABOR MARKET.

THAT’S WHY MOST OF THE PROBLEMS THIS COUNTRY IS CURRENTLY PLAGUED WITH CAN BE SIMPLY TRACED BACK TO:

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES.

Go back & reread my post – although I DOUBT YOU WILL BECAUSE IT OBVIOUSLY STIFLES & MAKES MUTE ALL OF YOUR PREVIOUS ARGUMENTS – BUT TRY ANY WAY.

You may understand THEN, THAT YOUR CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PHILOSOPHY AND THAT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS ONE THAT IS DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY.

JonR says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:08 pm

It has been suggested on this blog that the ACLU was founded “by communists.” I’m always looking to expand my education.

So can someone please note an authoritative source that proves this allegation?

DTSI, you still have not offered a definition of a “traditional” Christian church.

And I think you missed a key point of my posting about civil/religious marriages. ALL “marriages” should be considered “civil unions” by the state, regardless of sexual orientation, i.e., if your son wants to marry a woman, that is also a “civil union” under state law and the term “marriage” is reserved for the religious ceremony.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

American Liberal Philosopher,

Again, illegal immigration is hurting people like roofers and construction workers, because they will undercut American wages and reduce their standard of living. I know this for a fact from person experience.

We need to stop the massive flood of illegal aliens and Bush isn’t helpful, but liberals democrats are much more to blame.

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

Dora claims..”mongering about gay marriage just like with interracial marriage back in the 50’s. Civilization was going to end if interracial marriage was accepted. Well it didn’t. And neither will it end if gay people get married.”

Where is your proof here? I have never heard that claim, nor have I ever heard anybody else make it. Pulled this out your butt didn’t you?

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:33 pm

How can anybody even argue that illegals do NOT hurt our social services?
Yes, yes I know you can Dora.

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

Now that the Academy
Awards are on, we know that Gore is the odds on favorite. Here is another expert that denys his claims..
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjI4NTc0YWMzNTA3ZjRmYmJiMDRjNmI5MGEwZTFhM2E=

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

dare,

Quote>We need to stop the massive flood of illegal aliens and Bush isn’t helpful, but liberals democrats are much more to blame.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:51 pm

Good lord Brian, can you find any more partisan hack websites that repeat the same baseless crap?

Of course I was using hyperbole by saying civilization would end but it is the same fear-mongering. Gay Marriage Opponents Mimic Objections to Interracial Marriage

dare2sayit.com says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:52 pm

Good night liberals,

But since we’ve been discussing liberals and hospitals, I though I’d leave you with a joke….
********************************
While visiting his niece, an elderly man had a heart attack. The woman drove
wildly to get him to the emergency room.

After what seemed like a very long wait, the E.R. doctor appeared, wearing
his scrubs and a long face. Sadly he said, “I’m afraid that your uncle’s
brain is dead, but his heart is still beating.”

“Oh, dear,” cried the woman, her hands clasped against her cheeks with
shock, “We’ve never had a democrat in the family before!”

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

I know you like “links” Dora, then when I send them you claim they are from hack sites. The articles were not composed by the “hacks”. If that was the case I guess I would discredit them too.
How about the sites PWoman always links to? Ever complain about those?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

“When it comes to the politics of distraction, Bush’s decision to stoke fears among religious conservatives about gay sex is part of a historical pattern among Republicans. In fact, the last time the party fought a battle over “traditional” marriage — attempting to uphold state bans on interracial marriage during the 1960s — the political landscape was eerily similar. Sixteen states had laws on the books outlawing marriage between whites and blacks, and seventy percent of Americans opposed interracial marriage. Those are almost precisely the numbers that Bush marshaled to justify his call to ban gay marriage.”

The Politics of Fear

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 7:59 pm

Good joke dare, The Dr. in your joke wasn’t played by Kerry was he?

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:04 pm

Dora, I don’t deny that inter-racial marriage wasn’t an issue. It still is today. There are even families who disagree with marrying outside of your religion etc.
But many see the gay/lesbian marriage issue to be just a few more axe chops on the moriality tree. A chop here and a chop there. Eventually it will fall.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:04 pm

Nothing but assertions Brian. Assertions are not facts. Assertions are irrelevant. Exactly what links from PW are not credible? Provide some specifics, broad accusations are meaningless.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

dare said: “We need to stop the massive flood of illegal aliens and Bush isn’t helpful, but liberals democrats are much more to blame.”

Could you plaease cite supporting references for that statement?

dare said: “Again, illegal immigration is hurting people like roofers and construction workers, because they will undercut American wages and reduce their standard of living. I know this for a fact from person experience.”

Once again dare, CHALK IT UP TO CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES AND THEIR (your) PARTY.

If I WAS YOU dare, I’D BE ASHAMED THAT AFTER SEVERAL YEARS OF CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSES BY THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PARTY, AND ESPECIALLY FOLLOWING IN THE WAKE OF 9/11, THAT THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PARTY DIDN’T REBEL IN THE NAME OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND MAKE IMMIGRATION POLICY REFORM A MAJOR PRIORITY IN THE FACE OF THE TERROR THREAT OUR COUNTRY FACES.

ONCE GAIN, THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES ONLY ANSWER TO THEIR COPORATE MA$TERS – DESPITE THE THREAT OUR POROUS BORDERS POSE AS A CONDUIT FOR THE INFILTRATION OF TERRORISTS.

I’M SORRY dare, BUT THAT’S NOT PATRIOTISM AS DEFINED BY ANY DEFINITION OF IT I’M FAMILIAR WITH.

IT’S CALLED TREASON.

AND IT’S PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.

NOW dare, DO YOU STILL THE SUPPORT CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PHILOSOPHY & PARTY?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:10 pm

So if a heterosexual wants to marry their partner it’s moral but if a homosexual wants to marry their partner it’s immoral. That makes no sense.

JonR says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:22 pm

Brian,
Are you that uninformed? Do a Google search for any state legislature south of the Mason-Dixon line when repealing laws forbidding inter-racial marriage was being debated.

You will find the same arguments being used that were used to oppose Truman’s integration of the Armed Forces after WW II and the same arguments being used today to oppose same-sex marriage.

You want “traditional marriage?” There was a time in this country that when a woman married all of her property, whether it was worth one cent or one million dollars, legally went to her husband and she was left penniless.

Ask your wife what she would think of that “traditional marriage” ideal.

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:23 pm

“Exactly what links from PW are not credible?”
I think all of them are. They all are from “hack” liberal leftist sites. The articles are highly suspect when they quote “facts”

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

Oh, of course you do Brian because you disregard anything that doesn’t come from the rw talking heads and Faux News. The fact that you can’t name anything specific damages your own credibility.

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:29 pm

I don’t have the time nor the energy to debate with you what marriage is in its traditional sense. Has there been a time in history where it wasanything other than a man and a woman? I can’t find it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#Definitions_throughout_history

Brian G says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

Wrong Dora, I discredit anybody, right or left, who fabricates their “facts” to prove a point.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:46 pm

Well JonR there is your answer. This is from Wiki too Brian: “Although state-recognized same-sex marriage is a relatively new phenomenon in Western society, there is a long history of same-sex unions around the world. Various types of same-sex unions have existed, ranging from informal, unsanctioned relationships to highly ritualized unions.”

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:48 pm

Where’s ‘dare’?

He didn’t like the CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE tag very much did he?

He didn’t EVEN TRY TO REFUTE MY ORIGINAL POST.

When he briefly brought up the IMMIGRATION ISSUE – I CONFRONTED HIM WITH THE TRUTH OF WHAT’S BEHIND IT: CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES & THE PHILOSOPHY OF THEIR PARTY.

dare BAILED.

C’mon CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES …

WHO’S NEXT?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 8:48 pm

What a joke Brian, you discredit anybody who fabricates? I’ve never yet seen you discredit DTSI’s fabrications.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:14 pm

I think we should legalize gay marriage. and while we are at it, lets go ahead and allow people to marry their own and other’s children, pets, corpses, space aliens, sasquatches, and Dora (kinda fits right in there doesn’t it).

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

Sadly, after nearly five and a half years of waging war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US is approaching nearly half the total military losses as during the Clinton years.

US losses in Iraq and Afghanistan today (3525) are approaching the half way mark (3750) of the military losses during the Clinton years.

During the Clinton years, the US military lost an average of 939 soldiers each year and a total of 7500 military personnel. During the War in Iraq the US has lost an average of 800 soldiers each year- down each of the last two years and a total of 3525 military personnel in the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This grim milestone is nearly half of the total military losses as during the Clinton years.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

‘Officer Truthsquad’

Thanks for the info regarding military losses but could you be so kind to cite some official source references that support that statement?

Thanks in advance.

Hey ‘Officer Truthsquad’ – that’s a cool name.

What kind of ‘TRUTH’ are you in to?

Do you accept the TRUTH that the republican CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE party HAS COMPROMISED OUR NATION’S SAFETY BY STALLING ON SERIOUS IMMIGRATION POLICY REFORM – SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARDS TO BORDER SECURITY SINCE 9/11?

AFTER ALL, THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PARTY HAS ENRICHED THEIR CORPORATE MA$TERS WITH UNTOLD BILLION$ IN CHEAP LABOR SAVINGS BY ALLOWING THE IMMIGRATION/BORDER SECURITY ISSUES TO GO UNADDRESSED FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT, officer truthsquad?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

Is this the newest misuse of statistics? Comparing deaths in Iraq to all military deaths from all causes? How many combat related deaths under Clinton? How many military deaths of all causes under Bush? But of course you won’t see that from the Officer. Just like you’ll never see where those stats came from. What a tool.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:57 pm

These results were taken from Iraq Coalition Casualties, and Murdoc Online – the Official Department of Defense Report.
(February 25, 2006)

excuse me if I do not converse with you A.P.P., as screaming loonies irritate me.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 9:57 pm

Dora,

these CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES ARE ALL ONE AND THE SAME.

I’ve TAKEN DOWN SO MANY CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES ON DISCUSSION BOARDS & FORUMS TO EVEN COUNT.

ONCE YOU PIN THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE BADGE ON THEM AND THEN ATTEMPT TO DEBATE THEM WITH THE POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY OF IT, THEY DROP LIKE FLIES IN A ‘RAID’ TORNADO.

“officer truthsquard” = “dare2sayit”= CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES.

ALL THEIR BASIC ARGUMENTS ARE BASELESS AND THE PHILOSOPHY OF CONSERVATISM = CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATISM IN IT’S PRESENT STATE IS NOT AN AMERICAN IDEAL – IT’S A RECIPE FOR THE DOWNFALL OF OUR COUNTRY AND EVERYTHING IT STANDS FOR.

JonR says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

Brian writes, “…I don’t have the time nor the energy to debate with you what marriage is in its traditional sense. Has there been a time in history where it wasanything other than a man and a woman? I can’t find it…”

Really? The New England Genealogical Society has church records from 18th century New England which show that same-sex marriages were performed and duly recorded by the civil authorities.

And read “Same-sex Unions in Premodern Europe” by Prof. Dr. John Boswell (1996). He clearly shows that the early Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches had liturgies for same-sex unions. He also provides English translations of the liturgies which were written in Old Church Slavonic, and ancient liturgical language.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:10 pm

‘officer truthsquad’,

That’s a poor excuse for not debating me.

Is this better?

Please cite a link(s) for me.

Do you accept the TRUTH that the republican CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE party has compromised our nation’s saftey by stalling on serious immigartion policy- specifically with regards to border security since 9/11?

After all, THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PARTY has enriched their Corporate Ma$ters
with untold billion$ in cheap labor saving$ by allowing the Immigration/Border security to go unaddressed for several years/

How do you feel about that, officer truthsquad?

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

And yet you still don’t account for the fact that it’s an apples to oranges comparison. If you’re going to use combat casualties in the Bush Administration then you need to use combat casualties in the Clinton Administration. Deaths in the military from suicide, homicide, accidents, and illness haven’t stopped during the Bush years either. I’m shocked, just shocked that someone calling himself “Officer Truthsquad” would use such an intellectually dishonest argument–just kidding of course. I’ve read enough of your stuff to know otherwise.

Spinning war deaths

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

A.P.P., do you have larger font?

Dora, I could also “spin” you another stat that shows there are at least 4 american cities that have had more murders in the same period of the Iraq war. While every soldiers life is indeed precious, the military is performing to never before seen standards. I had it easy when I was in Kuwait/ Iraq border, Somalia- a little different, but our guys are kicking butt.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

I also found it hilarious you use a liberal blof to dispute my supposedly slanted post. You are precious too, bless your little soul.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:28 pm

Red herring Officer. Nothing at all to do with your original post citing misleading stats. Oh I have no doubt you can find all kinds of stats to “spin”.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:32 pm

Just found this- found it funny and very satisfying to see Eric’s inept double standards. Sorry to embaress your boyfriend, Dora.

Hugh Hewitt: Let’s begin by focusing on Patty Wetterling’s ad that was released two days ago, in which she says Congressional leaders have admitted covering up the predatory behavior of a Congressman who used the internet to molest children. Which Congressional leaders have admitted to covering up predatory behavior, Eric Black?

Eric Black: As far as I know, none have.

HH: Does that make what she said a lie?

EB: Well, lie is a word you reach rarely, I think, in these kinds of ads, yes? But I would say that it’s not a correct statement, and you could quibble with the word choices quite strongly.

HH: What…is it possible to lie in a campaign ad?

EB: Well, what constitutes a lie…I guess you have to eventually get into intent. Something that’s inaccurate isn’t necessarily a lie. We’ve dealt with this…you know, I’ve dealt with this in my reporting many times. It’s rare that you get to the point of knowing that someone had uttered a falsehood, knowing it was false, and with malicious intent.

So why did Black blow this two week old Bachmann story up into a big deal?

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:33 pm

Also, the stats are not misleading. YOU may feel they are but as most people know, all numbers are related.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

‘officer truthsquad’ says: “A.P.P., do you have larger font?”

How’s this?

‘officer truthsquad’,

That’s a poor excuse for not debating me.

Is this better?

Please cite a link(s) for me.

Do you accept the TRUTH that the republican CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE party has compromised our nation’s saftey by stalling on serious immigartion policy- specifically with regards to border security since 9/11?

After all, THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PARTY has enriched their Corporate Ma$ters with untold billion$ in cheap labor saving$ by allowing the Immigration/Border security to go unaddressed for several years/

How do you feel about that, officer truthsquad?

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

I will give you a little.

Where was the GIVE EVERYBODY EVERYTHING DEMOCRATIC PARTY during the Clinton years? What exactly were his contributions to this or has it only occured during the last five years? Pretty much just like fat Al’s global warming contributions during his vice duties. = nothing.

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

Do you just cut and paste your rhetoric or is it so ingrained in you- you type from memory?

Well, good night, gotta go rest up to pay Bush’s corporate masters, sorry, CORPORATE MASTERS. Put your kool aid back in the fridge and go to bed.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:43 pm

Of course the stats themselves aren’t misleading but the use of the stats is misleading. Who would disagree that to be a valid comparison you need to be comparing the same thing? And YOU keep dodging the question. How many combat deaths under Clinton?

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 10:55 pm

“officer truthsquad” = Another one bites the dust.

That’s all he has for me?

Really?

Hell, I thought I’d get some good old fasioned American Political Debate from these CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES!

dare2sayit. Gone. Check.

officer truthsquad. Gone. Check.

That’s IT?

Not Another CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE up for some debate on politics Amercian-Style?

C’mon…

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 11:07 pm

Yeah OT it’s hilarious how that “liberal blog” links to the same Defense Department stats, interviewed the author of the NY Sun article that started it all and who admitted she used different statistics, and linked to a conservative blogger who said the author wasn’t using an honest argument. Your post isn’t “supposedly slanted” it is totally slanted.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 11:10 pm

They always slink away APP when they get in over their head. They’ll be back another day with the same baseless claims and misrepresentations.

Dora says:

February 25th, 2007 at 11:54 pm

So OT, are you Andy from the Residual Forces blog? If you’re not you really should attribute your cut and pastes then.

cowboyneok says:

February 26th, 2007 at 12:27 am

WHO VOTED for this FREAK?

My God, can she be recalled for her being psychologically unfit.

Brian G says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:09 am

The Anal Philosopher has been shouting about CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVTIVES.
How about POVERTY-VOTES for the democrats?

Millions and millions of victims that the dems can promise amnesty, health care, schooling, welfare..
Lets not for get the BIG money dems who also get rich on the backs of the poor. Only they don’t call jobs that require no education or skills exploitation, they call it opportunity to achieve the American Dream..
The only problem is that we are importing the unskilled and uneducated faster than we could every hope to train them and educate them. Hence the increases in the poverty rates over the past few years.

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:34 am

In honor of O.P.P., I am changing my name from Officer Truthsquad. I also am not Andy.

Jeff says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:53 am

Officer:

You’re not interested in a civil debate. What a bunch of BS from a on-line bully.

Mark the sequel says:

February 26th, 2007 at 10:08 am

American Political Philospher says:

Now, cheap labor conservatives, what have you got to say for yourselves?

****

I say it took you a lot of words to construct a straw man. But you do a fine job of whacking it.

Dora says:

February 26th, 2007 at 10:35 am

Well, then OT or CLC or whatever you’d like to call yourself, you really should attribute your cut and pastes.

Les says:

February 26th, 2007 at 10:44 am

Cowboyneok wrote:
WHO VOTED for this FREAK?

Cowboyneok; You must realize, there was no viable opposition.

To bad She’s as nutty as a Gore.

bsimon says:

February 26th, 2007 at 11:11 am

Les – you forget Binkowski.

Les says:

February 26th, 2007 at 11:35 am

bsimon;

True, I stand corrected.
However, IP candidates are disdained as much as republicans on this site. Their “spoilers” dontcha know. better to vote for one of the two “electable” candidates than throw your vote away.

I wonder if the Republicans in 1860 had to put up with that nonsense.

Tom Vilsac’s plight is another example of how we end up with these messes. Not saying I agree with his message, but when someone cant run just because of bucks, then we’re gonna end up with nothing but “electable” puppets, regardless if thier money comes from “Big Oil” or George Soros.

bsimon says:

February 26th, 2007 at 12:30 pm

When Rep Bachmann says “I am sorry if my words have been misconstrued” I can’t help but think that she has misconstrued what ‘misconstrued’ means.

Brian G says:

February 26th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

Hey, Kerry’s words were misconstrued too. So were Biden’s. It happens. But let’s beat the Bachmann gaff for all it is worth.

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 26th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

Nothing changes here. The two or three people on here who aren’t liberal say something and the nutjobs attack with force. Name calling, dismissing, branding as racist or homophobe. Thanks all for being consistent.

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 26th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

And O.P.P., you have won nothing. Its funny when you people think you win when others are tired of your rhetoric and spewing and just do not want to talk to you. Congratulations on your big win.

bsimon says:

February 26th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

Brian G says “[other's words] were misconstrued… but let’s beat the Bachmann gaff for all it is worth.”

The question, to me, is whether Rep Bachmann’s statement was a gaffe, as you generously describe it, or representative of a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation in Iraq, specifically, and the Middle East in general. As you’ve pointed out, other elected officials have been subjected to much ridicule for their misstatements. I don’t see why Rep Bachmann should yet be let off the hook. If I’m not mistaken, both Kerry & Biden eventually had to go back before the cameras and restate their intended message multiple times before the subject was allowed to change; I don’t see why Rep Bachmann should be treated any differently.

Dora says:

February 26th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

Oh that’s not a gaffe Brian. Bush’s one-liners mangling words is a gaffe, Bachmann had a rather lengthy answer. If Bachmann meant something different than what she said then why is she refusing the opportunity of an interview to set the record straight? And please don’t try to say that Kerry and Biden aren’t raked over the coals by the right for what they say because that would be down-right disingenious of you.

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 26th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

The latest USA TODAY/Gallup Poll suggests Bush might not be as wounded as he appears — at least not among his party faithful.

The Feb. 9-11 poll puts Bush’s job approval at 37%, but among people who identify themselves as Republican or leaning Republican, his approval rating is 76%.

Thus, despite bad news from Baghdad and carefully crafted hand-wringing by high-profile GOP war critics in Congress such as Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, three of four Republicans in the country are hanging in there with the president.

The poll also shows that rank-and-file Republicans have higher regard for the president than they do Republicans in Congress. They gave GOP lawmakers a 63% job-approval rating, 13 points below Bush’s. And 72% of Republicans do not think Bush made a mistake sending U.S. troops to Iraq.

Ok, go ahead and attack.

bsimon says:

February 26th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

“Bush might not be as wounded as he appears — at least not among his party faithful.”

I thought we were talking about Rep Bachmann & her propensity for making up facts out of thin air.

Brian G says:

February 26th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

I don’t think Bachmann should get a free pass. Let’s ask again what she meant. Maybe she will say she was totally wrong? Maybe she had read something that shw thought was true and wasn’t? Who knows exactly?
If a pattern develops, then that is another thing.

bsimon says:

February 26th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

“Let’s ask again what she meant. Maybe she will say she was totally wrong?”

I’m all for it; I suspect she’s said as much as she’s going to on the subject. I think every media outlet in the state – and many nationally – would be happy to sit down with her & let her explain herself. It appears that the statement issued by her office is all we’re going to get.

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 26th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

Sorry, got confused after all the illegal immigration, gays, gay marriage, republicans stealing from the poor, keith ellison, the koran, condoleeza rice, christiansand multiple other topics. In the future I will try to stay on topic for you though.

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 26th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

I have more respect for Joe Lieberman than I do for 95% of the other politicians. A few years ago, I would never have believed I would have wrote that. For those who haven’t read his Wall Street Journal story- READ IT.

http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009715

dare2sayit.com says:

February 26th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

American Liberal Philosopher,

I thought I made it clear I was signing off for the night. You think that because other people have lives to live and aren’t able to listen to your leftist babbel half the night you win the argument? You’re as wrong as Dora!

Again, illegal immigration is what is hurting labor in America by under cutting American wages. I’ve personally witnessed this.

Brian G says:

February 26th, 2007 at 5:12 pm

Excellent article Cheap! It is a shame that the dems cannot see his points. They are looking for power, Back in Power at Any Cost

dare2sayit.com says:

February 26th, 2007 at 7:13 pm

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE,

Great article. Thanks.

I’m sure JFK would back Leiberman 100% if he were alive today. It’s sad to see what has happened to the Democrats today.

Dora says:

February 26th, 2007 at 7:25 pm

Yeah, DTSI is so sure, just like he was so sure that the Republicans would hold on to their majority in Congress.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

Dora,

Once people realize that the democrat party is no longer the party of JFK but of people like Keith Ellison and no longer has the best interests for America when it comes to national security, the lib’s will drop like flies in the next election.

Brian G says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

You could be right dare, I know too many people that still think of the democrats in the light of the traditional party. If these people ever become aware and realize their party has been hijacked by the far left things may get back to normal, There are a lot of conservatives still voting democrat.

Dora says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:10 pm

Another thing you’re so sure about DTSI? Well, your track record on elections is abysmal so I wouldn’t bet the farm if I were you.

Brian G says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

Hey, I won a $50 bet on Leiberman.
The wackos that got together and voted him out during the primary must have taked it hard?

dare2sayit.com says:

February 26th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

I know plenty of older folks who vote liberal democrat because thats all they’ve ever done and all they ever will do, no matter who is running. When you ask them about the issues they are conservative, but I guess you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 27th, 2007 at 6:06 am

‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit’ says: “CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:”

February 26th, 2007 at 8:34 am

“In honor of O.P.P., I am changing my name from Officer Truthsquad. I also am not Andy.”

‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit’ says “CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:”

February 26th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

“And O.P.P., you have won nothing. Its funny when you people think you win when others are tired of your rhetoric and spewing and just do not want to talk to you. Congratulations on your big win.”

HAHAHAHA!!!

Look at these fool(s)!

‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit’ was SO IMPRESSED WITH MY OVERWHELMINGLY POLITICAL DEBATE STYLE he ADOPTED THE TAG I ON PINNED ON HIM!

That’s CLASSIC ‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit! IT IS! I FEEL HONORED I HUMBLED YOU SO EASILY!

Hell, I thought you REAL CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES WOULD AT LEAST PUT UP A DECENT DEBATE!

INSTEAD YOU BOW TO THE PHILOSOPHY OF WHAT YOU ARE & WHAT YOUR PARTY REPRESENTS BY ADOPTING THE VERY BADGE DESTINED FOR YOU!

HELL, I”VE DEBATED A HELL OF A LOT OF CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES IN MY TIME – BUT ‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit: YOU’RE THE WEAKEST ‘defenders’ of your ALREADY WEAK POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY I’VE EVER ENCOUNTERED!

If Karl Rove had transcripts of your postings here, he’d have, at much taxpayer expense, a team of operatives look you up and have you severely tasered for such injustices to the cause.

LISTEN ‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit: GO HERE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/browse and ask a few of the veterans there to instruct you in the simple art of desperate conservative debate.

Then in about 3 MONTHS I’LL STOP BACK BY TO GRADE YOU ON YOUR PROGRESS.

“Peace Man – smoke a joint or two to aid in your education!”

Hehehehe!

Yours Truly,

American Political Philosopher

American Political Philosopher says:

February 27th, 2007 at 7:01 am

P.S. ~ I just had to reply to this:

‘dare2sayit.com’ says:

February 26th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

“American Liberal Philosopher,

I thought I made it clear I was signing off for the night. You think that because other people have lives to live and aren’t able to listen to your leftist babbel half the night you win the argument? You’re as wrong as Dora!

Again, illegal immigration is what is hurting labor in America by under cutting American wages. I’ve personally witnessed this.”

dare2sayit/officer truthsquad:

Hey CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE: Just because I lay the TRUTH OF WHAT YOU’RE ABOUT ON YOU, doesn’t mean I DON’T HAVE A LIFE.

I’m a full-time employed software engineer here in MN w/ a wife, daughter, son & a grand daughter directly involved in my life in a very positive family situation.

But I have enough leisure time on the side to have some FUN WITH you CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES – WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT, dare2sayit/officer truthsquad: BELIEVE IT OR NOT I’M NOT THAT ‘liberal.’

AND IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ MY POSTINGS REGARDING IMMIGRATION POLICY/BORDER SECURITY, you had a glimpse of WHERE I STAND.

I’VE JUST RESEARCHED A LOT OF AMERICAN POLITICAL HISTORY & POLITICAL POLICY – AND I’M SORRY dare2sayit/officer truthsquad, BUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS SLAVE-DRIVEN BY HUGE CORPORATE INTERESTS AND THAT HAS TRICKLED DOWN TO THE MAJORITY CLASS OF MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS AND IS DESTROYING OUR NATION. I CAN BACK IT UP WITH STATISTICS BUT YOU – dare2sayit/officer truthsquad – DON’T EVEN WANT TO LISTEN.

EXAMPLE: ‘dare2sayit’.com says:

February 26th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

(EXCERPT)

American Liberal Philosopher, Again, illegal immigration is what is hurting labor in America by under cutting American wages. I’ve personally witnessed this.

AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE: BLAME IT ON YOUR OWN CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE PARTY.

THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE ABOUT. CREATING A CHEAP LABOR MARKET FOR CORPORATE AMERICA – ONE OF THE LARGESTS RESOURCES FOR CONTRIBUTION TO A CHEAP LABOR MARKET IS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WORKING UNDER THE TABLE FOR MINIMUM WAGE OR LOWER WAGES & UNDERCUTTING LEGITIMATE AMERICAN CITIZEN LABOR – NOT TO MENTION THE OUTSOURCING OF MILLIONS OF JOBS TO COUNTRIES LIKE INDIA TO ANSWER TECH ASSISSTANCE CALLS FOR MICROSOFT, etc, etc, etc….

I could go on & on… I don’t have the time here.

But TRUST ME CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES: THE PICKINGS WERE EASY AND QUICK HERE; SO I’M OFF TO MORE FERTILE GROUNDS WHERE I CAN WREAK DEVASTATION ON MORE IGNORANT CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES.

‘dare2sayit/officer truthsquad’: YOU WERE JUST A CHEAP APPETIZER IN MY FEAST FOR A BANQUET OF YOUR KIND.

BUT I’LL BE BACK.

Off to work now.

Adios

Warmly,

American Political Philosopher

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 27th, 2007 at 7:13 am

I do not debate you for the same reason I do not argue with the street crazies, Alzheimers victims, or drug-addled loonies I come across. It is pointless to argue with crazy spewers who repeat the same nonsense over and over. I would just as soon start telling a cuckoo clock to stop cuckooing- it would be just as rewarding and successful. So please do not take my ignoring of you as a win, unless that makes you feel important and smart, then go ahead, because I like to help the loonies feel good.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 27th, 2007 at 7:42 am

dare2sayit/officer truthsquad says:

“I do not debate you for the same reason I do not argue with the street crazies, Alzheimers victims, or drug-addled loonies I come across. It is pointless to argue with crazy spewers who repeat the same nonsense over and over. I would just as soon start telling a cuckoo clock to stop cuckooing- it would be just as rewarding and successful. So please do not take my ignoring of you as a win, unless that makes you feel important and smart, then go ahead, because I like to help the loonies feel good.”

SORRY CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE – FACE THE TRUTH: YOU WON’T DEBATE BECAUSE YOU CAN’T.

PLAIN & SIMPLE dare2sayit/officer truthsquad.

YOU KNOW IT AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE HERE.

I’VE READ ALL YOUR CONTINUOUS POSTINGS UP AND DOWN THIS FORUM – POSTINGS YOU CONSISTENTLY MADE TO MANY OTHER POSTERS YOU DON’T HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH.

I CAME ON YESTERDAY AND I’VE WHIPPED YOUR ASS, CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE. NOT ONLY HAVE I SPANKED YOU IN LESS THAN 24 HRS, I MADE A FOOL OUT OF YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU AND YOUR MULTIPLE POSTING ‘personalities’; AKA ‘dare2sayit’ STAND FOR.

I KNOW YOU DON’T WANT TO TRY TO COMPREHEND THE SORRY TRUTH YOU’VE BEEN CONFRONTED WITH, dare2sayit/officer truthsquad, AND SO YOU DO WHAT A CHILD DOES: YOU DENY IT: “street crazies, Alzheimers victims, or drug-addled loonies I come across. It is pointless to argue with crazy spewers who repeat the same nonsense over and over.”

dare2sayit/officer truthsquad: YOUR PARENTS SHOULD BE MONITORING YOUR COMPUTER USE MORE CLOSELY. MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET OUT AND MOSY DOWN TO THE ICE CREAM PARLOR ONCE IN AWHILE, kid.

WE KNOW YOU ADOLESCENTS LIKE TO PRETEND TO BE INTELLECTUAL ADULTS ONLINE BUT C’MON dare2sayit/officer truthsquad – GET BACK TO YOUR 6th GRADE MATH HOMEWORK AND AT LEAST MAKE AN ATTEMPT NOT TO DISGRACE YOUR PARENTS ANYMORE THAN YOU ALREADY HAVE, ok?

Sincerely,

American Political Philosopher

CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE says:

February 27th, 2007 at 8:57 am

I REST MY CASE.

Brian G says:

February 27th, 2007 at 8:58 am

Philosopher…YOUR SHOUTING IS TYPICAL OF ALL YOUR KIND, BUT MOST DO IT TO SHOUT DOWN THE OPPOSING VIEW. YOU DO IT HERE AND IT IS VERY ANNOYING!!! YOU MAY NOTICE THAT EVERYBODY IS IGNORING YOU FOR THE MOST PART.
GO BACK AND READ YOUR POSTS. YOU DESERVE A BIG PAT ON THE BACK AND MAYBE YOU CAN BEND OVER AND KISS YOUR OWN ARSE!

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 27th, 2007 at 9:13 am

At this point, I am changing back to my original name as I recognized that I may be enabling or encouraging his behavior. For that, I apologize to all.
This is much like giving a self-mutilator a razor. I feel bad for ever encouraging him or her.

American Political Philosopher says:

February 27th, 2007 at 9:21 am

dare2sayit/officer truthsquad says:

“I rest my case.”

WHAT CASE?

YOU NEVER PRESENTED ONE.

AND YOU DON’T HAVE ONE.

I”VE KICKED YOUR ASSES ALL AROUND YOUR OWN BLOG LIKE LAST WEEK’S ROADKILL.

JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT.

YOU CAN’T MOUNT A DECENT DEBATE SO I”LL PLAY IT YOUR WAY.

THEN ‘officer truthsquad says: “At this point, I am changing back to my original name as I recognized that I may be enabling or encouraging his behavior. For that, I apologize to all.
This is much like giving a self-mutilator a razor. I feel bad for ever encouraging him or her.

HEY OFFICER, YOU DON’T LIKE THE CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE TAG, DO ya?

DEBATE ME ON THE ISSUES OF MY ORIGINAL POST:

SINCE YOU SEEM TO FORGOT ABOUT IT WHAT THAT WAS, HERE IT IS AGAIN:

American Political Philosopher says:

February 25th, 2007 at 2:53 am

Defeat The Right In Three Minutes
Conceptual Guerilla’s picture

The url for this article is: http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/6

Have you got three minutes. Because that’s all you need to learn how to defeat the Republican Right. Just read through this handy guide and you’ll have everything you need to successfully debunk right-wing propaganda.

It’s really that simple. First, you have to beat their ideology, which really isn’t that difficult. At bottom, conservatives believe in a social hierarchy of “haves” and “have nots” that I call “corporate feudalism”. They have taken this corrosive social vision and dressed it up with a “respectable” sounding ideology. That ideology is pure hogwash, and you can prove it.

But you have to do more than defeat the ideology. You have to defeat the “drum beat”. You have to defeat the “propaganda machine”, that brainwashes people with their slogans and catch-phrases. You’ve heard those slogans.”Less government”, “personal responsibility” and lots of flag waving. They are “shorthand” for an entire worldview, and the right has been pounding their slogans out into the public domain for over forty years.

So you need a really good slogan – a “counter-slogan” really, to “deprogram” the brainwashed. You need a “magic bullet” that quickly and efficiently destroys the effectiveness of their “drum beat”. You need your own “drum beat” that sums up the right’s position. Only your “drum beat” exposes the ugly reality of right-wing philosophy – the reality their slogans are meant to hide. Our slogan contains the governing concept that explains the entire right-wing agenda. That’s why it works. You can see it in every policy, and virtually all of Republican rhetoric. And it’s so easy to remember, and captures the essence of the Republican Right so well, we can pin it on them like a “scarlet letter”.

Is there really a catch phrase – a “magic bullet” – that sums up the Republican Right in such a nice easy-to-grasp package. You better believe it, and it’s downright elegant in its simplicity.

You want to know what that “magic bullet” is, don’t you. Read on. You’ve still got two minutes.

Right-Wing Ideology in a Nutshell

When you cut right through it, right-wing ideology is just “dime-store economics” – intended to dress their ideology up and make it look respectable. You don’t really need to know much about economics to understand it. They certainly don’t. It all gets down to two simple words.

“Cheap labor”. That’s their whole philosophy in a nutshell – which gives you a short and pithy “catch phrase” that describes them perfectly. You’ve heard of “big-government liberals”. Well they’re “cheap-labor conservatives”.

“Cheap-labor conservative” is a moniker they will never shake, and never live down. Because it’s exactly what they are. You see, cheap-labor conservatives are defenders of corporate America – whose fortunes depend on labor. The larger the labor supply, the cheaper it is. The more desperately you need a job, the cheaper you’ll work, and the more power those “corporate lords” have over you. If you are a wealthy elite – or a “wannabe” like most dittoheads – your wealth, power and privilege is enhanced by a labor pool, forced to work cheap.

Don’t believe me. Well, let’s apply this principle, and see how many right-wing positions become instantly understandable.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like social spending or our “safety net”. Why? Because when you’re unemployed and desperate, corporations can pay you whatever they feel like – which is inevitably next to nothing. You see, they want you “over a barrel” and in a position to “work cheap or starve”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like the minimum wage, or other improvements in wages and working conditions. Why? These reforms undo all of their efforts to keep you “over a barrel”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives like “free trade”, NAFTA, GATT, etc. Why? Because there is a huge supply of desperately poor people in the third world, who are “over a barrel”, and will work cheap.

* Cheap-labor conservatives oppose a woman’s right to choose. Why? Unwanted children are an economic burden that put poor women “over a barrel”, forcing them to work cheap.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like unions. Why? Because when labor “sticks together”, wages go up. That’s why workers unionize. Seems workers don’t like being “over a barrel”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives constantly bray about “morality”, “virtue”, “respect for authority”, “hard work” and other “values”. Why? So they can blame your being “over a barrel” on your own “immorality”, lack of “values” and “poor choices”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives encourage racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of bigotry. Why? Bigotry among wage earners distracts them, and keeps them from recognizing their common interests as wage earners.

The Cheap-Labor Conservative “Dirty Secret” : They Don’t Really Like Prosperity

Maybe you don’t believe that cheap-labor conservatives like unemployment, poverty and “cheap labor”. Consider these facts:

Unemployment was 23 percent when FDR took office in 1933. It dropped to 2.5 percent by time the next Republican was in the White House in 1953. It climbed back to 6.5 percent by the end of the Eisenhower administration. It dropped to 3.5 percent by the time LBJ left office. It climbed over 5 percent shortly after Nixon took office, and stayed there for 27 years, until Clinton brought it down to 4.5 percent early in his second term.

That same period – especially from the late forties into the early seventies – was the “golden age” of the United States. We sent men to the moon. We built our Interstate Highway system. We ended segregation in the South and established Medicare. In those days, a single wage earner could support an entire family on his wages. I grew up then, and I will tell you that life was good – at least for the many Americans insulated from the tragedy in Vietnam, as I was.

These facts provide a nice background to evaluate cheap-labor conservative claims like “liberals are destroying America.” In fact, cheap-labor conservatives have howled with outrage and indignation against New Deal liberalism from its inception in the 1930’s all the way to the present. You can go to “Free Republic” or Hannity’s forum right now, and find a cheap-labor conservative comparing New Deal Liberalism to “Stalinism”.

* Cheap-labor conservatives opposed virtually all of the New Deal, including every improvement in wages and working conditions.

* Cheap-labor conservatives have a long and sorry history of opposing virtually every advancement in this country’s development going right back to the American revolution.

* Cheap-labor conservatives have hated Social Security and Medicare since their inception.

* Many cheap-labor conservatives are hostile to public education. They think it should be privatized. But why are we surprised. Cheap-labor conservatives opposed universal public education in its early days. School vouchers are just a backdoor method to “resegregate” the public schools.

* Cheap-labor conservatives hate the progressive income tax like the devil hates holy water.

* Cheap-labor conservatives like budget deficits and a huge national debt for two reasons. A bankrupt government has a harder time doing any “social spending” – which cheap-labor conservatives oppose, and . . .

* Wealthy cheap-labor conservatives like say, George H. W. Bush, buy the bonds and then earn tax free interest on the money they lend the government. [Check out Dubya’s financial disclosures. The son of a bitch is a big holder of the T-bills that finance the deficit he is helping to expand.] The deficit created by cheap-labor conservatives while they posture as being “fiscally conservative” – may count as the biggest con job in American history.

* “Free Trade”, globalization, NAFTA and especially GATT are intended to create a world-wide “corporate playground” where national governments serve the interests of corporations – which means “cheap labor”.

The ugly truth is that cheap-labor conservatives just don’t like working people. They don’t like “bottom up” prosperity, and the reason for it is very simple. Lords have a harder time kicking them around. Once you understand this about the cheap-labor conservatives, the real motivation for their policies makes perfect sense. Remember, cheap-labor conservatives believe in social hierarchy and privilege, so the only prosperity they want is limited to them. They want to see absolutely nothing that benefits the guy – or more often the woman – who works for an hourly wage.

So there you have it, in one easy-to-remember phrase. See how easy it is to understand these cheap-labor conservatives. The more ignorant and destitute people there are – desperate for any job they can get – the cheaper the cheap-labor conservatives can get them to work.

Try it. Every time you respond to a cheap-labor conservative in letters to the editor, or an online discussion forum, look for the “cheap labor” angle. Trust me, you’ll find it. I can even show you the “cheap labor” angle in things like the “war on drugs”, and the absurd conservative opposition to alternative energy.

Next, make that moniker – cheap-labor conservatives – your “standard reference” to the other side. One of the last revisions I made to this article was to find every reference to “conservatives”, “Republicans”, “right-wingers”, and “righties”, and replace it with “cheap-labor conservatives”. In fact, if you’re a cheap-labor conservative reading this, you should be getting sick of that phrase right about now. Exxxxcellent.

If enough people will “get with the program”, it won’t be long before you can’t look at an editorial page, listen to the radio, turn on the TV, or log onto your favorite message board without seeing the phrase “cheap labor conservatives” – and have plenty of examples to reinforce the message. By election day of 2004, every politically sentient American should understand exactly what a “cheap labor conservative” is, and what he stands for.

Now if you stop right here, you will have enough ammunition to hold your own with any cheap-labor conservative, in any public debate. You have your catch phrase, and you have some of the facts and history to give that phrase meaning.

Now, cheap labor conservatives, what have you got to say for yourselves?

Officer Truthsquad says:

February 27th, 2007 at 9:38 am

chirp, chirp, chirp…. Do I hear crickets?

American Political Philosopher says:

February 27th, 2007 at 9:59 am

That’s ALL YOU GOT ‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit?

THAT’S ALL?

kid, head over to http://www.freerepublic.com/home.htm and get an education for about a year.

YOU’RE A DISGRACE TO CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVES AROUND THE WORLD.

YOU CAN’T EVEN DEFEND YOURSELF ANYMORE.

YOU’VE BEEN REDUCED TO CHIRPING.

I ACTUALLY FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, ‘officer truthsquad/dare2sayit.’

I APOLOGIZE FOR REDUCING YOU TO THE BLUBBERING FOOL YOU’VE BECOME OVER THE FEW EXCHANGES WE SHARED.

I DIDN’T MEAN TO DO THAT.

I HAD NO IDEA YOUR DELICATE PSYCHE WAS SO SUSCEPTABLE TO ATTEMPTING TO REASON & DEBATE RATIONALLY.

BUT, I GUESS, I INITIALLY GAVE YOU TOO MUCH CREDIT AT THE OUTSET – BUT ONCE AGAIN: ANOTHER MINDLESS CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE BITES THE DUST…

… BUT YOU officer truthsquad/dare2sayit, WENT DOWN FOR THE COUNT FASTER THAN ANY OTHER CHEAP-LABOR CONSERVATIVE OPPONANT I’VE EVER HAD THE PLEASURE OF TAKING DOWN.

ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE GO HERE & GET EDUCATED: http://www.freerepublic.com/home.htm …AND TELL ‘EM I SENT ya!

;-)

BTW – it was fun playin w/ ya!

Thanks!

Brian G says:

February 27th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

repost from yesterday..JonR from 10:03 pm.
You are right I stand corrected. Traditional marriage has been between man/woman, man/man, woman/woman throughout history. I even found a couple of sites that have it between siblings and animals. So I guess everyone should be able to marry anyone or anything following your logic?

http://www.stanford.edu/~scheidel/incest.htm

Les says:

February 27th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

Nope, I think it’s snoring.

dare2sayit.com says:

February 27th, 2007 at 5:59 pm

American Liberal Philosopher,

Do you think anyone actually reads your crap? Maybe you should get a job and do something constuctive.

Truthseeker says:

February 27th, 2007 at 7:39 pm

Dare2 is hiring. He is building a fence around his Lowes!
Dare2 come back 2 DumpMicheleBachmannBlog. Beckfield and Erick have been castrated (again) for their homophobic attack on you, and are sipping Marcus’s koolaid in between intermittent shocks right now!
Dora is no good for you. We heart you there, well maybe some do, well I do occasionally:-)

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